Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#19 » Sep 06 2017 11:30

deathboon wrote:So I was just reading through the index and I saw something that I previously missed, and something I'm not sure was possible in previous codices.

Has anyone considered the effectiveness of shield generators on stealth suits?



I just took shield generators on full squads of stealth suits with 2 shield drones each during the NOVA Open Apoc game. I needed to since the IoM had a guaranteed first turn, but I need the homing beacons to get my QFC into melta range on a bunch of super-heavies.

It worked really really REALLY well. About 3000 pts (maybe more) shot at them, and they survived. My 4 QFC got in and popped a Necron Pylon (the fact they were on the IoM side was slightly annoying) and a Shadowsword first turn. That left my Manta and Tigershark A-X-1 able to target and destroy a warhound and a knight on the other side of the table. Because of those early kills, my Manta ended the game dropping 30+ troops onto a winning objective with 46 out of 60 wounds remaining, while my Tigershark never even got touched.

All of that being said, it may be a bit overkill for a 2000pt game. I have never had a problem keeping stealth teams around long enough o do their jobs in standard games.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Garacaius
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#20 » Oct 05 2017 07:39

QimRas wrote:
Panzer wrote:Thinking farther, a unit of Sniper Drones would also serve great right behind a Stealth Team to threaten Psykers trying to come in for the Smite. That may turn into a pretty effective synergy.


This is my thinking as well... My plan is to use a unit of three basic Stealth suits, two with ATS and one with a Drone Controller. I'd place them near the Sniper Drones plus Firesight Marksman for the 3+ to hit and hope any psykers target them. One could also take another unit of three stealth suits and give them a homing beacon to get the Manta Commander(s) plus Crisis Teams down.

T'au = synergy, right?

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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Panzer
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#21 » Oct 05 2017 10:47

I was wondering where I wrote something like that. Seems you messed up the formatting when quoting. Always use the preview function before posting. ;)

No, Sniper Drones are never really worth it. Ever. You have to put a lot of points in to make them decent against much cheaper HQs and then they are still bad against the more expensive ones who have proper protection.

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deathboon
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#22 » Oct 06 2017 10:32

Panzer wrote:No, Sniper Drones are never really worth it. Ever. You have to put a lot of points in to make them decent against much cheaper HQs and then they are still bad against the more expensive ones who have proper protection.


So i agree pretty much. I don't think any thing with the sniper key word should have weapons with less than this profile:

Range 48" BS 2+ dmg D6 Mortal Wounds.

If there isn't a possibility of 1 shot 1 kill, then what the hell are you pretending to be a Sniper for.

AlmostMercury
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#23 » Oct 06 2017 10:36

Just to make sure I understand your stealth suit table...

Always take a Fusion Blaster. Correct?

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Panzer
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#24 » Oct 06 2017 11:00

deathboon wrote:Range 48" BS 2+ dmg D6 Mortal Wounds.

Either more reliable mortal wound delivery, or just higher damage or good AP. But for the love of god not AP0 D1 and a Mortal wound on 6s. That's just terrible and pretty much the opposite of what a Sniper is supposed to be.

Imo the best Sniper in the game currently (not counting assassins) is with AdMech.
Their Transuranic arquebus has a 60" Heavy1 S7 AP-2 D1d3 profile, can't shoot when moved and still has the mortal wound on 6s ability. It costs 25p on a 8p model with BS3+ surrounded by a bunch of ablative wounds.
So it's actually rather comparable to our Rail Rifle (though I do think AP-4 with D1d6 + mortal wound would be a bit too much for a weapon that can shoot at characters lol ... maybe the Ion Rifle would be a better comparison after all) and FAR stronger than any other Sniper. Even without the diverse faction benefits like easy access to re-rolling 1s or Forge World Dogmas like the Ghostkeel stealth ability.

If I were playing AdMech I'd take 3x5 Skitarii Ranger with 2 Transuranic arquebus almost every time I think (they can have 2 special weapons at a size of 5 and a third at 10). That's just 90p per unit and a Troop choice most enemies would actually want to get rid off quickly so your other units can survive longer.

EDIT: Oh right I forgot the unit has a 6++ and can take an item to ignore cover (basically a spotter which is pretty fitting for a Sniper unit).

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Arka0415
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#25 » Oct 07 2017 02:33

AlmostMercury wrote:Just to make sure I understand your stealth suit table...

Always take a Fusion Blaster. Correct?


Not really. The Fusion Blaster is expensive (over 20% the cost of the unit) and has only a 50% chance of hitting with a single shot. It also means that the other two Burst Cannons, weapons that cannot be switched out, become more of a 'tax' in the squad.

If your Stealthsuits are entirely dedicated to dropping a Homing Beacon and helping out a 4x Fusion Blaster Commander, then great- give the Stealthsuits a Fusion Blaster and add more Fusion to the party.

However, if you're using Stealthsuits as anti-infantry units, objective holders, or some other purpose like that, the Fusion Blaster just makes them worse at their job, which is killing T3/T4 infantry with poor armor saves.

Against T3 and T4 targets with Sv3+ or worse, take the Burst Cannon. Against T5 targets, Sv2+, and/or W2 (or more) models, take the Fusion Blaster.

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Garacaius
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#26 » Oct 09 2017 12:28

Panzer wrote:I was wondering where I wrote something like that. Seems you messed up the formatting when quoting. Always use the preview function before posting. ;)

No, Sniper Drones are never really worth it. Ever. You have to put a lot of points in to make them decent against much cheaper HQs and then they are still bad against the more expensive ones who have proper protection.


Yeah, heh, sorry. I just hit the quote thinger but I think it was on someone who quoted you or the like.

I was given some Sniper Drones as a gift, so I feel beholden to use them. We have some psyker action with orks and astra in our meta, so maybe they'll be okay. I just wish they had rail rifles instead if the basic pulse setup.

More on topic, I'm planning on running a (Fusion, Fusion, Flamer) Crisis Suit team to support my sole (4 x Fusion) Commander who will be manta-striking with Drones aplenty.

When I get another squad, they'll be (CIB, CIB, Flamer) or (CIB, CIB, Missile Pod) depending on who I'm up against.... I wouldn't normally have the bits, but the third party bits by Red Dog Minis ended up looking quite good.

It feels odd not taking a support system, but for whatever reason, so too does taking 3x any one weapon... If only because I don't normally have the bits for it.

For stealth teams, I usually field two units of three suits. Normally, I don't take Markers or Fusion. I'll take homing beacons for sure on at least one team, and either multitracker or drone controllers. The former because their targets aren't normally targets easily Markerlighted and they're cheap; the latter especially if they're near the aforementioned Sniper Drone squad.

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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Panzer
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#27 » Oct 09 2017 01:40

Garacaius wrote:For stealth teams, I usually field two units of three suits. Normally, I don't take Markers or Fusion. I'll take homing beacons for sure on at least one team, and either multitracker or drone controllers. The former because their targets aren't normally targets easily Markerlighted and they're cheap; the latter especially if they're near the aforementioned Sniper Drone squad.

Mathhammer isn't really supporting Multitracker over ATS though unfortunately.
3 Burst Cannon get 6 hits without Multitracker and 6.5 hits with Multitracker. The unsaved wounds from those against 2+ armor is 1.33 vs 0.72, against 3+ armor is 2 vs 1.44, against 4+ armor is 2.67 vs 2.17 and against 5+ armor 3.33 vs 2.89.

It's literally just a worst choice than ATS. The only advantage it has is that you are more likely to hit when using Overwatch (not much more though) but you trade that for a worst damage output and take away the ability to boost your damage output even further with Markerlights. Not really worth the 6ppm you save with it imo.

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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#28 » Oct 09 2017 07:08

Panzer wrote:
Garacaius wrote:For stealth teams, I usually field two units of three suits. Normally, I don't take Markers or Fusion. I'll take homing beacons for sure on at least one team, and either multitracker or drone controllers. The former because their targets aren't normally targets easily Markerlighted and they're cheap; the latter especially if they're near the aforementioned Sniper Drone squad.

Mathhammer isn't really supporting Multitracker over ATS though unfortunately.
3 Burst Cannon get 6 hits without Multitracker and 6.5 hits with Multitracker. The unsaved wounds from those against 2+ armor is 1.33 vs 0.72, against 3+ armor is 2 vs 1.44, against 4+ armor is 2.67 vs 2.17 and against 5+ armor 3.33 vs 2.89.

It's literally just a worst choice than ATS. The only advantage it has is that you are more likely to hit when using Overwatch (not much more though) but you trade that for a worst damage output and take away the ability to boost your damage output even further with Markerlights. Not really worth the 6ppm you save with it imo.


Obviously it depends on your list but I find the Multi-tracker is lackluster on any suit due to how easy it is to get 1 markerlight on a target.

If you are worried about deepstrike defence or anti charges then CDS is reroll all misses for overwatch (still not amazing tbh) or EWO (much much better especially vs cult ambush even a 5 man assault marine squad won't be happy about 12 Str 5 shots to the face on arrival)

If I was going to run stealth suits it would be with ATS or EWO (with drone controller on fusion blaster suit if I took 1)

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