Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Aedeeg
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 14

Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#1 » Aug 22 2017 12:34

To continue on from my Commander Loadout Spreadsheet (http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=26365) post, here are the same spreadsheets for Crisis Suits and Stealth Suits

Stealth Suit:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bhglCcgfsWpL5qUiv3tQk153pYi2VG6R3Mw_DV834bs/edit?usp=sharing

Crisis Suits:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1z_33qiv-zaSlbEki5AL68JNuFQv_QJIMRqH01FSaUu0/edit?usp=sharing

From what I can tell, an ATS doesn't add much efficiency at all and can be detrimental in most areas. Against TEQ with a low AP weapon it will help but you suffer in almost all other areas.

One thing to consider is Wounds per round. Points per wound does show the economic efficiency of units but if it takes you 10 rounds to do enough wounds then the efficiency is lost. Pay attention to the Avg wounds done as well as the PPW to make sure that you can kill your targets effectively.

For list building purposes I think Commanders will do most Anti-tank and Anti-MEQ/TEQ jobs while Crisis Suit teams with flamers and drones will help clear the chaff (Conscripts, Brims etc.) A Stealth Suit unit with a homing beacon is almost required for a Crisis Suit team. Stealth suits are expensive but have a lot of utility. I would run Crisis with Flamers and Stealths with homing beacon and Burst Cannons.

Let me know what you think; Do you think flamer Crisis Suits are optimal? WHat loadouts are you running? Thoughts on Stealths?

I will update this and the commander spreadsheet accordingly.

Antao
Shas'Saal
Posts: 46

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#2 » Aug 22 2017 12:56

I've been running my Crisis suits as 2x flamer 1x FB to back up my tank hunting ability which is generally brought by a QFC & Longstrike.

I've been on a losing streak recently.

Guess that's what happens when you bring only 1 commander at 1500 points (only commander I have in my collection thus far) I've been less than impressed with the Fusion on the Crisis. Also less than impressed with the Railguns on the hammerheads as well. Even Longstrike is streaky (miss one turn, 9 wounds the next) . QFC is the way to go. Everything else is to expensive.

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Aedeeg
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 14

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#3 » Aug 22 2017 02:40

I think fusion commanders have their place but IMO the CIB commanders are the best all around units in Tau. They have better points per wound and Average wounds done than almost all other loadout on almost any target. The flamer can be better against conscripts and the Fusion blaster against high toughness models with no invulnerable saves but the CIB is the best Knight killer we have aswell as the best Terminator/Marine/Tau equivalent killer.

I think the BS 4 on crisis suit really hinders them, hence the flamer loadout. 10 pts per wound on soft targets is pretty good and a 3 man team will kill 20+ conscripts a turn in shooting alone. Couple that with 6 gun drones and a 3 man stealth Suit unit with burst cannons and you are reliably taking down 30 in shooting.

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MNGamer
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#4 » Aug 22 2017 03:35

i have been running a six man group of stealth suits with 4 BC and ATS and 2 FB. i typically infiltrate them close to a transport or blob of infantry, then i attempt to blow up the transport from range with long strike and finish it off with the FBs. then the BCs open up on the infantry either in the transport or the transport itself if it survived the other weapons. The T4, -1 to hit, and 2 wounds have made them so much more durable. sometimes i use them with a homing beacon and flamer/plasma crisis suit.
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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akaron79
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#5 » Aug 24 2017 09:31

It would be nice to see plasma on crysis. I would say PPW is good on them vs TEQ/MEQ. Anyway, probably Quad-CIB or even ATS-3CIB Commanders are way better for such task...

Thanks for your formulas and analysis!

Pottsey
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Posts: 37

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#6 » Aug 24 2017 09:54

ATS helps in close combat and a lot of those units due to short 18” range are at risk of ending up in CC for at least 1 round before pulling out. Plus there are times where with ATS its beneficial to charge into CC do some damage, pull out and shoot the following round.

With Commanders I don’t believe a 3 CIB, ATS is that far behind 4 CIB and you save 10 pts plus gain CC power. With fusion though I tend to go quad.

Meatstick
Shas'Saal
Posts: 8

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#7 » Aug 25 2017 03:01

Wow! I never noticed that against meq the point efficiency of a burst cannon with ats efficiency is just as good as one without it. Almost makes me reconsider my life and put the ats because of the cc buff as well. Although the points per losing a model is a little higher :/

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Aedeeg
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 14

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#8 » Aug 28 2017 04:14

Sorry everyone, I've been away over the weekend but i do plan to update these later this week.

@akaron79 I will definitely add plasma, I don't even know how that slipped my mind lol.

@Pottsey, good point about the ATS and its effectiveness in CC. I plan to write a more structured guide to go over things like this. This math is strictly for shooting but there are many other factors that determine a unit's effectiveness (Toughness, Wounds, Saves, CC potential). It really depends on your list and what you want your crisis suits to do. Also, the math is strictly averages, negating a chance for an opponent to make a save can be a lot more beneficial than the extra shots, how many times have we all seen an opponent make all of their 5+ saves while we sit there dreading being charged next turn by their infantry blob!

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deathboon
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#9 » Sep 05 2017 09:07

So I was just reading through the index and I saw something that I previously missed, and something I'm not sure was possible in previous codices.

Has anyone considered the effectiveness of shield generators on stealth suits?

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1528

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#10 » Sep 05 2017 09:11

deathboon wrote:So I was just reading through the index and I saw something that I previously missed, and something I'm not sure was possible in previous codices.

Has anyone considered the effectiveness of shield generators on stealth suits?


It would definitely make them more durable. However, the last thing they need is more durability, I think. Especially in cover, they're already really difficult to take down.

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deathboon
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#11 » Sep 05 2017 09:17

That's kind of the point, the more firepower they absorb, the better.

I was just thinking itd be fun to keep an msu crisis team in manta hold till turn 3 just to see how much people dump into the stealth team to prevent a homing strike.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#12 » Sep 05 2017 09:43

deathboon wrote:That's kind of the point, the more firepower they absorb, the better.

I was just thinking itd be fun to keep an msu crisis team in manta hold till turn 3 just to see how much people dump into the stealth team to prevent a homing strike.


That's a good point actually! I don't tend to use homing beacons, but you're right, if you have a massively powerful unit that you must bring down via Homing Beacon, then 24 points worth of Shield Generators might go a long way toward keeping the unit alive. Although, 6 more points and you get another Stealthsuit. Thoughts?

AleksandrGRC
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#13 » Sep 05 2017 10:57

I found them to be a smite magnet. well an everything magnet really. Ats and drone controller for me or vanilla and just more.
Anyways. If you to protect other things from smite adding shield gens mighthave the stealths take some of the heat off of ur other units. Being in their face and all that.

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Panzer
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#14 » Sep 06 2017 12:08

But why would an enemy shoot at them? If you give them Shield Generators they are barely a threat at all. Maybe the single Fusion Blaster but it hits only on 4+ anyway. If you want to give them more protection without removing something as vital as ATS on the Burst Cannons, give them two Shield Drones or/and a Shield Gen on the Fusion Blaster. But on the Burst Cannons it's overkill.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#15 » Sep 06 2017 07:50

And smite will just ignore the shield gen anyway whereas the shield drones will be able to take some of the heat.

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Glarblar
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#16 » Sep 06 2017 08:56

Invul save on a 2 wound unit just seems kind of strange to me. I get it for termies but not for stealth suits

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Panzer
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Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#17 » Sep 06 2017 09:06

A 4++ on a two wound model is great...if they actually had weapons to be a threat without having to take ATS.

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QimRas
Shas'Saal
Posts: 245

Re: Crisis and Stealth Suit Loadouts

Post#18 » Sep 06 2017 09:50

Panzer wrote:A 4++ on a two wound model is great...if they actually had weapons to be a threat without having to take ATS.


I think the point Deathboon is trying to express is that to a knowledgeable opponent their threat level is more due to their homing beacon than their weapons as long as there is a suitably threatening unit in reserve to call in.

Also, them being smite magnets might not be a horrible thing. The 18 inch range of Smite means those nasty psykers are going to be relatively close to begin with. With careful positioning you may be able to call in a Anti-Infantry Crisis Team to target their bubble wrap. With even better positioning you may be able to target the character itself with that same Anti-Infantry Team.

Thinking farther, a unit of Sniper Drones would also serve great right behind a Stealth Team to threaten Psykers trying to come in for the Smite. That may turn into a pretty effective synergy.

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