XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Duckumentary
Shas
Posts: 14

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#55 » Nov 09 2017 03:18

So, I acquired a Y'Vahra over a month ago and had my first chance to try it out this week. I was playing PL so I didn't bring the drone protection that it would normally need to fulfill it's full potential. However, I wanted to be able to reach out and touch things with it first turn. The Y'Vahra has effectively a 26" - 30" range for it's two weapons between it's 18" movement and 8" / 12" range respectively, but I wanted to be able to give it a little more range. The best way to do this I thought was to be put an XV86 Coldstar Commander behind him in order to declare Montka, giving him an extra D6 range. If I was thinking I would have put an Ethereal near him as well and used Zephyr's Grace in order to be able to reroll it for free, however I was prepared to use a command point if I didn't reach my goal.

It performed well enough, but to be honest it would have done substantially better if I could have absorbed some incoming fire with a few shield drones. Turn one I had positioned myself to jump over a large center building and torch some Chaos Cultists, not the best target but I hit automatically and wounded on 2+, which torched 15+/- of them off the table immediately, another 10+ ran due to morale. I also took some pop shots into a Rhino, unfortunately I only rolled a total of 4 on 3d3, which without markerlight support did minimal damage with no 6's for additional Mortal Wounds.

It didn't exactly make it's point cost back, because it drew most of the enemy fire causing me to lose it turn 2 and I had poor target priority choices. It is a BEAST though, and would be a MAJOR threat once given appropriate drone support. I'm thinking FireWarriors with Shield Drones for turn 1 protection, and then a squad of Crisis Suits deepstriking once it's made it's way up field for turn 2+ protection will be the best choice to get the most out of the Y'Vahra.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 442

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#56 » Nov 10 2017 09:23

Duckumentary wrote:So, I acquired a Y'Vahra over a month ago and had my first chance to try it out this week. I was playing PL so I didn't bring the drone protection that it would normally need to fulfill it's full potential. However, I wanted to be able to reach out and touch things with it first turn. The Y'Vahra has effectively a 26" - 30" range for it's two weapons between it's 18" movement and 8" / 12" range respectively, but I wanted to be able to give it a little more range. The best way to do this I thought was to be put an XV86 Coldstar Commander behind him in order to declare Montka, giving him an extra D6 range. If I was thinking I would have put an Ethereal near him as well and used Zephyr's Grace in order to be able to reroll it for free, however I was prepared to use a command point if I didn't reach my goal.

It performed well enough, but to be honest it would have done substantially better if I could have absorbed some incoming fire with a few shield drones. Turn one I had positioned myself to jump over a large center building and torch some Chaos Cultists, not the best target but I hit automatically and wounded on 2+, which torched 15+/- of them off the table immediately, another 10+ ran due to morale. I also took some pop shots into a Rhino, unfortunately I only rolled a total of 4 on 3d3, which without markerlight support did minimal damage with no 6's for additional Mortal Wounds.

It didn't exactly make it's point cost back, because it drew most of the enemy fire causing me to lose it turn 2 and I had poor target priority choices. It is a BEAST though, and would be a MAJOR threat once given appropriate drone support. I'm thinking FireWarriors with Shield Drones for turn 1 protection, and then a squad of Crisis Suits deepstriking once it's made it's way up field for turn 2+ protection will be the best choice to get the most out of the Y'Vahra.


That's sinking a lot of points in protection on a unit that already costs a bunch. Not sold on the Y'vahra.

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Panzer
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Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#57 » Nov 10 2017 09:32

Yojimbob wrote:
Duckumentary wrote:It didn't exactly make it's point cost back, because it drew most of the enemy fire causing me to lose it turn 2 and I had poor target priority choices. It is a BEAST though, and would be a MAJOR threat once given appropriate drone support. I'm thinking FireWarriors with Shield Drones for turn 1 protection, and then a squad of Crisis Suits deepstriking once it's made it's way up field for turn 2+ protection will be the best choice to get the most out of the Y'Vahra.


That's sinking a lot of points in protection on a unit that already costs a bunch. Not sold on the Y'vahra.

Not if you were planning to field those elements in your list anyway. Using a Crisis unit with Drones is not really going far out of your way for protection. ^^

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Yojimbob
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Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#58 » Nov 10 2017 09:57

Panzer wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Duckumentary wrote:It didn't exactly make it's point cost back, because it drew most of the enemy fire causing me to lose it turn 2 and I had poor target priority choices. It is a BEAST though, and would be a MAJOR threat once given appropriate drone support. I'm thinking FireWarriors with Shield Drones for turn 1 protection, and then a squad of Crisis Suits deepstriking once it's made it's way up field for turn 2+ protection will be the best choice to get the most out of the Y'Vahra.


That's sinking a lot of points in protection on a unit that already costs a bunch. Not sold on the Y'vahra.

Not if you were planning to field those elements in your list anyway. Using a Crisis unit with Drones is not really going far out of your way for protection. ^^


I agree but you're taking another units protection tool away from THEM is part of my problem. Lots of points for an expensive model when you could take better units for the role. It's all moot anyway until the Chapter approved come sout and then once we get a codex it all REALLY goes out the window.

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Draco023
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Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#59 » Nov 10 2017 10:22

Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
That's sinking a lot of points in protection on a unit that already costs a bunch. Not sold on the Y'vahra.

Not if you were planning to field those elements in your list anyway. Using a Crisis unit with Drones is not really going far out of your way for protection. ^^


I agree but you're taking another units protection tool away from THEM is part of my problem. Lots of points for an expensive model when you could take better units for the role. It's all moot anyway until the Chapter approved come sout and then once we get a codex it all REALLY goes out the window.



The few times I've run her it was pretty much exactly this way, charged up the table to where my CIB+ drone squad dropped in. The suits ghosted behind the 109 for range matching and charge protection and they were so busy dumping rounds into the Y'vahra I didn't miss having the drones for the suits at all until turn 4. So for me I exchanged the protection from wounds the drones brought for protection from getting shot the 109 provided. Depends on if your opponent bites on the distraction, and if there are enough targets to satisfy that kind of short ranged spearhead.

xDefiantx
Shas
Posts: 11

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#60 » Nov 10 2017 01:18

Duckumentary wrote:So, I acquired a Y'Vahra over a month ago and had my first chance to try it out this week. I was playing PL so I didn't bring the drone protection that it would normally need to fulfill it's full potential. However, I wanted to be able to reach out and touch things with it first turn. The Y'Vahra has effectively a 26" - 30" range for it's two weapons between it's 18" movement and 8" / 12" range respectively, but I wanted to be able to give it a little more range. The best way to do this I thought was to be put an XV86 Coldstar Commander behind him in order to declare Montka, giving him an extra D6 range. If I was thinking I would have put an Ethereal near him as well and used Zephyr's Grace in order to be able to reroll it for free, however I was prepared to use a command point if I didn't reach my goal.

It performed well enough, but to be honest it would have done substantially better if I could have absorbed some incoming fire with a few shield drones. Turn one I had positioned myself to jump over a large center building and torch some Chaos Cultists, not the best target but I hit automatically and wounded on 2+, which torched 15+/- of them off the table immediately, another 10+ ran due to morale. I also took some pop shots into a Rhino, unfortunately I only rolled a total of 4 on 3d3, which without markerlight support did minimal damage with no 6's for additional Mortal Wounds.

It didn't exactly make it's point cost back, because it drew most of the enemy fire causing me to lose it turn 2 and I had poor target priority choices. It is a BEAST though, and would be a MAJOR threat once given appropriate drone support. I'm thinking FireWarriors with Shield Drones for turn 1 protection, and then a squad of Crisis Suits deepstriking once it's made it's way up field for turn 2+ protection will be the best choice to get the most out of the Y'Vahra.


Ytide is a tricky unit to get right imo (it's also very powerful), its weapons are short range and it lends itself to large movement, but in doing this it outpaces typical drone support and to make its points back...it needs those drones.

Duckumentary
Shas
Posts: 14

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#61 » Nov 10 2017 02:05

I agree but you're taking another units protection tool away from THEM is part of my problem. Lots of points for an expensive model when you could take better units for the role. It's all moot anyway until the Chapter approved come sout and then once we get a codex it all REALLY goes out the window.


I think that's an over simplification. First of all, it's important to remember the T7 is the highest that is available to use in our current iteration of the rules, as well as a 2+ armor save. Secondly, the model itself has a physical presence as well as in game power and speed that DEMANDS that your opponent commits resources in able to disable it. It's important to understand that by introducing larger threats into your army, you will take pressure off other units that you may want to survive longer as well, the Crisis suits for instance. Perhaps a more effective method however would be to introduce stealth squads featuring shield drones near the area of attack I intend to move into, allow an overall more survivable and efficient allocation of resources. If this doesn't match your play style, that's okay. But shield drones have been my bread and butter since 5th edition. The ability to absorb D6 wounds from a Lascannon / Melta for a friendly unit is worth the 12pts.

To make my point, while he was trying desperately to take down the Y'Vahra, my Ghostkeel, Stealthsuits, Firewarriors, Pathfinders, and Commanders basically went untouched, allowing me to crack some of his more vital units. Although I lost my Y'varha, that was essentially my ONLY major loss and my Death Guard opponent was nearly tabled. So make of it what you will, but understand there are many ways to achieve success, and it is important to have an awareness of each these practices that one can combine them into the most efficient plan of action.

"The strength of your force may be calculated by multiplying its weight by its velocity. Strive always to maximize both and victory shall be yours." -Commander Puretide

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#62 » Nov 10 2017 02:24

Different lists have different strategies but my current thinking on the Yvahra is that if it survives the game you are playing her wrong. This is a T7 killing machine that gets in my opponents face and as mentioned takes all the serious heat off my other killing blows (commanders, stormsurges, crisis teams, drones etc). The key to victory then lies in keeping the Yvahra alive for as along as possible since honestly if she survives through turn 3 I would be surprised to see a battle report where that Tau player also didnt win the game (please share if you know one and the Yvahra wasnt sitting in the back corner).

Yavahra is durable on its own with a 5++ and 6+++ and some command rerolls, but 100% you need drones with her otherwise she can go down in 1 turn. I find it hard for her to easily kill her points back unless you are lucky, so the value has to come from both damage giving and damage soaking. But with a 4 shield drones nearby I don't think its crazy for her to survive a full two turns of enemy fire... it takes a lot of predators to bring her down.

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nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 809

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#63 » Nov 11 2017 03:25

Bolter&Rail wrote:Different lists have different strategies but my current thinking on the Yvahra is that if it survives the game you are playing her wrong. This is a T7 killing machine that gets in my opponents face and as mentioned takes all the serious heat off my other killing blows (commanders, stormsurges, crisis teams, drones etc).


^this. So much this.

Against a castled up opponent I use the Y'vahra as a linebreaker unit to shatter their defensive position. It takes an incredibly disciplined opponent (read: more so than I have played so far) to maintain and re-shuffle their defensive position against a threat this deadly and durable. If she goes down on turn 3 but has created openings for my other suits and vespid to get into the back lines and cause havoc then she has truly served the Greater Good.

turtlesoup
Shas
Posts: 12

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#64 » Nov 13 2017 07:49

As many here in the forum including myself has commented that the y'vahra main purpose is an effective distraction to attract firepower. Since its a huge sink in points, using it meant that the list has to be build around it. What this meant:

1) have as many has point out is having effective amount of drones either transported or dropped around it vicinity to absorb damage

2) make sure there is at least 7-8 shield drones for every y'vahra, the drones will be a primary target as well....even before they target the y'vahra. those 5+ feel no pain on the shield drones can mean victory or defeat for the entire army. either you use multiple commanders or the xv-9 with four drones.

3) always charge towards the most expensive and/or the most important unit that thee opponent field. This will magnify its threat perception and is a highly successful distraction strategy. for extra scariness, tell your opponent that you added advanced targeting system on your y'vahra which can now cut their well armored expensive unit like butter. Bulls eye painted on your y'vahra guaranteed.

4) always bring a true damage dealer to destroy your enemy rather than expecting the y'vahra to actually do its intended damage. The quad fusion commander is the best example of such unit. Also give the breacher a try with y'vahra since the enemy will always target the y'vahra first and let your breacher advance to its intended target at optimal range if riding on a fish.

5) Always have at least one coldstar warlord at the table near the y'vahra to launch montka at the beginning of the turn, it will always be useful for this strategy to work.

6) A fish filled with drones is a must for second turn protection of the y'vahra. first turn relies mostly on the dropped drones. If the y'vahra survives third turn then its a very good chance that the tau player will win. this is because either the opponent does not have the effective means or the strategy to take out the y'vahra. this result in the y'vahra having a free reign from turn 3 onwards = certain defeat for opponent.

7) always protect your y'vahra from first turn charge. despite previous post claiming opponent not likely to charge y'vahra first turn, it is in fact the most effective way to destroy y'vahra. opponent will drop, strip y'vahra surrounding drones and charge without getting flamed since the flamer is only 8 inch not 9 inch. pulling off first turn charge is incredibly easy with dice rerolls and now many factions have abilities to evade overwatch fire. When charging using y'vahra, always target tanks, vulnerable vehicles and not anything else.

Not a very competitive list but very fun to play and extremely rewarding to see tau blitz warfare at work. very aggressive play style. (if you see competitive robby G sm list, you might as well shake hands with your opponent and don't bother playing with y'vahra list)

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 78

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#65 » Nov 13 2017 04:00

Just played my Yvahra + stormsurge list with a quick recap here:
http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=26780

On the Yvahra 100% agree that shield drones can make or break her success. This last weekend:
Game 1 I lost due to line-breaker against astra militarum and Yvahra died turn 3 with her mostly outpacing her drones and only pulled ~220pts
Game 2 I had a draw against one of those competitive Robby G SM lists that pulled the stormsurge in the alpha strike. Actually gave the Yvahra the ability to wreck some damage until she died turn 3, but pulled ~350pts (this was a tough game to draw and luckily enemy sent some expensive armour into my back lines the Yvahra could target)
Game 3 faced Chaos SM the 4 shield drones protected the Yvahra with wonderful results in turns 1-2 and resulted in her surviving the game and pulling ~450pts in just the first 3 turns...

So agree that a Yvahra list has to have more than just a Yvahra in terms of damage output and you need to play her aggressively, but also give her the drones she needs to make it till turn 3 ideally. With drones she is way more survivable than a Stormsurge, but still too expensive to die and only get 1 round of fire in. That will lose you the game.

turtlesoup
Shas
Posts: 12

Re: XV109 Y'vahra (any feedback?)

Post#66 » Nov 14 2017 01:04

y'vahra and storm surge does not have synergy what-so-ever. Storm surge damage output is too low for its points and too fragile survive long range anti tank guns. The only saving grace is its potential range which means it can sit on the backfield objectives while the entire army advances. Might as well get two lowly drones or patfinders to sit on backfield objectives. Y'vahra list is all about speed, drone support and real damage dealer wrecking things just behind the y'vahra. You need to force the opponent to shoot at the y'vahra or its supporting drones for the list to work its magic. If the opponent not directing all its firepower to take the y'vahra down then you are doing something wrong in term of deployment, movement or list building...or that your opponent is extremely knowledgeable about tau fw units saw through the strategy...very unlikely at first play against y'vahra list.

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