Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Panzer
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Re: Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Post#19 » Sep 18 2017 07:34

4th. Bringing T5-7 with many wounds may be painful, as they can field S8 AP-4 D2+ in a very cost efficient manner on multiple platforms.

Many armies do. Space Marines and CSM can spam Lascannons like no tomorrow as well. Luckily we have one of if not the best countermeasures against such weaponry with our Drone Saviour Protocols (not working for Vehicles unfortunately).

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
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Re: Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Post#20 » Sep 18 2017 05:46

Taiwaz wrote:Well, I have a Dark Eldar army and I disagree with some points said here earlier.

1st. Sniper drones are a real pain for some DE builds. Get a drone controller and 1-2 marksman and snipe the Beastmaster ;) He just has 3HP and a low 5+6+++ and his death reduces the flocks & co from LD9(with +2 LD drug as he should) to LD4! allowing for some efficient morale check :) otherwise those massive amounts of wounds on the beasts can easily ruin your day.

2nd. DE lack good AP or IC on single wound shooting. This makes 5-man strike teams one of your most tanky units. poisoned shooting still wounds just on 4+ and they have a 3+ save in cover. When he actually wipes 2 squads of them, he just killed models worth 80 points. the same amount of shooting will wipe a full 3 man Crisis team or a Ghostkeel ;)
I would not recommend to overly rely on them as cover may be a scarce resource, but 3-6 small units do not eat a lot of points and are a really nice backbone to your army scoring objectives and giving some pod shots here and there that are fairly good against any target the DE can field.

3rd. Their vehicles are T6 at best with 4+5++. This is pretty much the sweet spot of our missile weaponry. So I advice to use them on Crisis, Commander or Turrent, IMHO try to avoid fielding a broadside as the DE have extremely efficient shooting against it.

4th. Bringing T5-7 with many wounds may be painful, as they can field S8 AP-4 D2+ in a very cost efficient manner on multiple platforms.

5th. A single unit full of flamers has a pretty short range and need some Stealth team set-up. This may be potentially effective, but DE does not have huge problems wiping the Stealth teams if they get turn 1. However, some hidden flamers like 1 flamer per Crisis is a great hindrance as they cannot be bound and multiple overwatches will thin their ranks. This also works wonders against their transports when they try to soak the overwatch ;)

So units I would recommend in total are: Strike teams, Crisis, Coldstar, Stealth teams, Piranhas and loads of drones. Try to be on the mobile side. They are faster initially, but when you de-mech them to some degree, you will have the mobility advantage with suits and drones (and the ever usefull Prianha).

IMHO both armies are pretty evenly matched and in the end, may the dice be with you.


Well, sniper drones aren't that bad in general. They have a good level of surival due to the stealth rules, and they have pretty decent weapon stats. There main problem is their low BS and their limitations from the new rules for targeting characters. Even with a firesight marksman, they only have BS 4+, and they only hit 1/2 of the time on those die rolls. I wouldn't reccomend using them as a serious unit.
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ZettaCrash
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Re: Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Post#21 » Sep 18 2017 11:37

I've got two friends who play Dark Eldar and they looooove their mobility and firepower. Couple that with their ability to get into CC and absolutely shred T'au units and they're a huge problem. Thankfully, having played enough games against them, I have learned what is wonderfully effective.

1. Velocity Trackers: These suckers are what make fights against the Dark Eldar easy. If you can take out the transports and force them to slog across the board, you have already won half the fight. Couple these with missle pods, fusion blasters, and whatever else to even the odds. If you can field a stormsurge with a velo tracker, you can slap a really large amount of vehicles out of the board with a combination of Ballistic Skill boosters and re-roll to 1's.

2. Durability: They've got really nasty poison weapons and dark lances as their man stick. To avoid getting annihilated, you want to either make it so as few poison wounds go through by making it really hard to hit the said units or have shields to try and negate as many wounds as possible. Make very well sure to give the most valuable units a shield drone or two otherwise the dark lances are going to land and make life very hard. Alternatively, if you run tons of firewarrriors, they'll have to dump rounds into them which is less then efficient use for most of their poison shots not to mention the standard pulse rifle can wound a raider on a 4.

3. Commanders: Favorite set of commanders against them for me are guys with twin fusions and a flamer. One guy ditches a flamer for a adv. drone controller and they all come in with as many drones as possible. Not only do you pop raiders or whatever vehicles they have, the drones can either gun down what comes out or fire on another vehicle for relatively good chance to wound. This forces a situation where they must engage the new threat or get sundered and bonus points if you manage to do this when they're bikes are too far ahead to divert attention. The flamers are great against anyone who thinks it would be wise to charge the suits, vehicles or infantry.

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
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Re: Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Post#22 » Sep 19 2017 12:22

ZettaCrash wrote:I've got two friends who play Dark Eldar and they loooove their mobility and firepower. Couple that with their ability to get into CC and absolutely shred T'au units and they're a huge problem. Thankfully, having played enough games against them, I have learned what is wonderfully effective.

1. Velocity Trackers: These suckers are what make fights against the Dark Eldar easy. If you can take out the transports and force them to slog across the board, you have already won half the fight. Couple these with missle pods, fusion blasters, and whatever else to even the odds. If you can field a stormsurge with a velo tracker, you can slap a really large amount of vehicles out of the board with a combination of Ballistic Skill boosters and re-roll to 1's.

2. Durability: They've got really nasty poison weapons and dark lances as their man stick. To avoid getting annihilated, you want to either make it so as few poison wounds go through by making it really hard to hit the said units or have shields to try and negate as many wounds as possible. Make very well sure to give the most valuable units a shield drone or two otherwise the dark lances are going to land and make life very hard. Alternatively, if you run tons of firewarrriors, they'll have to dump rounds into them which is less then efficient use for most of their poison shots not to mention the standard pulse rifle can wound a raider on a 4.

3. Commanders: Favorite set of commanders against them for me are guys with twin fusions and a flamer. One guy ditches a flamer for a adv. drone controller and they all come in with as many drones as possible. Not only do you pop raiders or whatever vehicles they have, the drones can either gun down what comes out or fire on another vehicle for relatively good chance to wound. This forces a situation where they must engage the new threat or get sundered and bonus points if you manage to do this when they're bikes are too far ahead to divert attention. The flamers are great against anyone who thinks it would be wise to charge the suits, vehicles or infantry.


Ok few things here. 1. You do realise that the enemy can target any unit in range (unless a) they are hidden behind cover, b) they're not a character and c) you don't have a taller unit in front of them). 2. You siad that the commanders had 2x FB and 1x Flamer. You also said that one commander ditches his only flamer for a drone controller. Did you mean he has 2 flamers, or did you actually mean for the 4 weapon suit to only have 3. As well as that, commanders are most effective with 3x CIB and a ATS. Flamers are generally better on the crisis suite (since you're wasting the 2+ to hit with a flamer that autohits. The thing you're wasting is that the normal shas'ui/shas'vre crisis has worse BS and can't hit as well, so flamer goes well with that. The Shas'O commander has 2+ to hit, so you're only missing on a roll of 1 (which misses anyway regardless of modifiers). So basically you're giving a guy who pretty much autohits in the first place a autohit weapon which he really doesn't need.)

Also: one last thing. Yes, dark eldar have awesome mobility. I've faced it, and been run down by those jetbikes. But their firepower is not really that good. They're definitely better than most space marines with their puny and worthless bolters (S4 is terrible compared to our S5 pulse rifles!!), but they still aren't on par with us, or even the Orks (whose dakka can take out entire armies of the exact same PL and Point values. This s mainly due to the amount of Ork Boyz you can take for a cheap price. Weak individually, but strong when a wall of dakka is comming downrange at you!!). It's still good, but it lacks our relatively awesome shootiness.
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Arka0415
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Re: Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Post#23 » Sep 19 2017 09:13

ZettaCrash wrote:1. Velocity Trackers: These suckers are what make fights against the Dark Eldar easy. If you can take out the transports and force them to slog across the board, you have already won half the fight.

The problem with the Velocity Tracker is that it's not too strong in TAC lists. Sure you get a nice bonus against flying heavy lists, but the Velocity Tracker's hardpoint is a massive opportunity cost since the slot could mount something like a Fusion Blaster or Cyclic Ion Blaster.

ZettaCrash wrote:3. Commanders: Favorite set of commanders against them for me are guys with twin fusions and a flamer. One guy ditches a flamer for a adv. drone controller and they all come in with as many drones as possible.

You say "Commanders" here, but you must mean XV8s, right?

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Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:1. You do realise that the enemy can target any unit in range (unless a) they are hidden behind cover, b) they're not a character and c) you don't have a taller unit in front of them).

This is true but did ZettaCrash mention something about this?

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:2. You siad that the commanders had 2x FB and 1x Flamer. You also said that one commander ditches his only flamer for a drone controller. Did you mean he has 2 flamers, or did you actually mean for the 4 weapon suit to only have 3. As well as that, commanders are most effective with 3x CIB and a ATS. Flamers are generally better on the crisis suite (since you're wasting the 2+ to hit with a flamer that autohits. The thing you're wasting is that the normal shas'ui/shas'vre crisis has worse BS and can't hit as well, so flamer goes well with that. The Shas'O commander has 2+ to hit, so you're only missing on a roll of 1 (which misses anyway regardless of modifiers). So basically you're giving a guy who pretty much autohits in the first place a autohit weapon which he really doesn't need.)

ZettaCrash has to have been referring to XV8s though. 2xFB+1xFlamer is a great kit for an XV8 squad!

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
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Re: Tactics vs. Dark Eldar

Post#24 » Sep 19 2017 05:04

Arka0415 wrote:
Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:1. You do realise that the enemy can target any unit in range (unless a) they are hidden behind cover, b) they're not a character and c) you don't have a taller unit in front of them).

This is true but did ZettaCrash mention something about this?



He said something about having to dump loads of rounds into forward fire warriors to hurt the units behind them

EDIT: I just realised he meant alternatively running lots of FW, not running them and battlesuits. My mistake.
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