I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Haechi
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#19 » Oct 03 2017 07:40

Lostroninsoul wrote:If possible I would split your list into two detachments. One being an outrider Detachment and one being a battalion detachment for an extra CP point. If this not permissible you can probably ask the event host why they are soft Banning fortifications and Lord of wars. Currently I only see one of those unit of breachers in there. But yes I can see those Strikers being breachers and it would probably be decent in a environment loaded with Terrain

PS I finished my breachers yesterday



I can't, it's one mandatory detachment between Battalion and Brigade and nothing else. Good job on your Breachers, I'm finishing up my first ten and waiting for 20 more to arrive by mail!

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#20 » Oct 03 2017 03:13

Showing some breacher love:Image
Shotgun Boyz rule!!! I will be curious on how they do so please share the results :)

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Haechi
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Posts: 33

Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#21 » Oct 03 2017 04:47

Lostroninsoul wrote:Showing some breacher love:Image
Shotgun Boyz rule!!! I will be curious on how they do so please share the results :)



Damn I love your paint scheme. Send me some pics of your army in private message please!

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Jhi'Myr
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#22 » Oct 03 2017 11:04

Panzer wrote:Interesting idea but I really cringe at the thought of taking a unit of Firewarrior purposely without transport just for them to die. We are not the Imperium ffs! :D

I'd like to point out the difference between our kroot and our breachers. The main driving point behind kroot is for them to die. Yes, they offer deepstrike area denial and they make a mild screen. But humor this:

12 breachers and 16 kroot cost the same number of points. Assume that we've got 18 successful to-hit and to-wound rolls from a spacemarine's bolter. Kroot and breachers have the same toughness. So, as an armor save the kroot pass on average 3. 15 die. 1 remains. out of the 12 breachers 9 die, and 4 remain. You're at a profit at this point if the only thing you're doing with your kroot is using them to die. those 4 remaining are 5.3333 times more expensive than the one remaining kroot (not counting the kroot that die from battleshock).

To top this off, the closer the enemy is to the breacher the harder the breacher will hit them. Makes your opponent more likely to make his charges from farther away, which gives your breachers a better chance of not being forced into combat at all. Doesn't matter if they're kroot or breachers, they'll die in CQC.

Ultimately, I want to say how much I like this idea of breacher screen. It's not some penultimate technique, but it's seems to be very good. The math behind it is nice and the tactical edge of making your opponent concerned about charging from up close is always fun. I ripped 'nids a new one by making the nid player try to make longer-distanced charges.

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Arka0415
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#23 » Oct 04 2017 02:21

Jhi'Myr wrote:Ultimately, I want to say how much I like this idea of breacher screen. It's not some penultimate technique, but it's seems to be very good. The math behind it is nice and the tactical edge of making your opponent concerned about charging from up close is always fun. I ripped 'nids a new one by making the nid player try to make longer-distanced charges.

As Tau, we don't need to take dedicated screening units at all though. Unless you're guarding something massively valuable like a Stormsurge or Tau'nar, dedicated screening isn't necessary. Take Gun Drones instead, which can operate with high-volume shooting at mid-range and can use their high movement characteristic to quickly bubble-wrap a unit if necessary.

Every turn that a unit isn't firing at optimal range is points wasted, I think.

zawyvern
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#24 » Oct 04 2017 07:42

I had this idea before also. Breacher spam I mean. I think in a highlander style tourney with no limit troops, maybe ok. But as other people pointed out, if you're going to have a threat that isn't hard as nails you need something else to distract your opponent. If they are the distraction, what are they distracting from? A stormsurge? Riptipes?
Also as mentioned, an experienced player will avoid your breachers and they aren't fast enough without a transport. Even with a mont'ka zephyr's grace combo. Maybe if Tau had a quick light transport like a venom or land speeder storm... but no luck.

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Studioworks
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#25 » Oct 05 2017 05:59

I will suggest to put some little wings on your Breachers and use them as Vespid, like this guy that made a superb job:

https://i.imgur.com/TZDjSTc.jpg

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Panzer
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#26 » Oct 05 2017 06:18

Studioworks wrote:I will suggest to put some little wings on your Breachers and use them as Vespid, like this guy that made a superb job:

https://i.imgur.com/TZDjSTc.jpg

First time seeing that pic, but that's exactly what I did for my Vespid as well (except for giving them other weapons). I just rarely find a place for them in my lists unfortunately.

Rathstar
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 77

Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#27 » Oct 05 2017 07:52

Unfortunately I'm another one in the no camp on breachers without a devilfish.

A sensible opponent, will ignore them to start with and only fire on them as they approach their optimum range. How often do the breachers fire at 5" range ? I favour Strike teams with an Cadre Fireblade who have an optimum range of 15".

Breachers are no distraction at >21" from the enemy, and barely a distraction until they will start a turn within 11" of the enemy. Lets look at the both breachers and strike teams at various ranges against MEQ and TEQ

30 Breachers vs 25 Strike with a Cadre Fireblade

vs MEQ @ 30" 0 vs 2.8 wounds
vs MEQ @ 15" 5.0 vs 8.3 wounds
vs MEQ @ 10" 10.0 vs 8.3 wounds
vs MEQ @ 5" 13.5 vs 8.3 wounds

How often will Fire Warriors be at each of these ranges (without a devilfish) ? The breachers are 20% better at 10" and significantly better at 5" but are significantly worse at ranges over 10".

vs TEQ @ 30" 0 vs 1.4
vs TEQ @ 15" 2.5 vs 4.1
vs TEQ @ 10" 6.6 vs 4.1
vs TEQ @ 5" 10.0 vs 4.1

Breachers increase their advantage at <10", but are still worse than strike teams over 10".

Strike Teams and Gun Drones do fine against all but the heaviest infantry (ie. 2+ save), and against those I think Breachers in a Devilfish, Vespid, Crisis teams, Commanders, Ghostkeels, Riptides, Stormsurges with ATS are all better options than Breachers on foot.

Having not used breachers on foot myself I could be wrong, so let us know how your games go.

Rathstar

PuppetMaster
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#28 » Oct 05 2017 09:00

Studioworks wrote:I will suggest to put some little wings on your Breachers and use them as Vespid, like this guy that made a superb job:

https://i.imgur.com/TZDjSTc.jpg


Sorry for hijacking :(
What are those wings from?
I have custom jetpack but would like to try a model+ with those!

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Panzer
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#29 » Oct 05 2017 09:04

PuppetMaster wrote:
Studioworks wrote:I will suggest to put some little wings on your Breachers and use them as Vespid, like this guy that made a superb job:

https://i.imgur.com/TZDjSTc.jpg


Sorry for hijacking :(
What are those wings from?
I have custom jetpack but would like to try a model+ with those!

There you go: https://puppetswar.eu/product.php?id_product=234

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Haechi
Shas'Saal
Posts: 33

Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#30 » Oct 05 2017 05:20

Studioworks wrote:I will suggest to put some little wings on your Breachers and use them as Vespid, like this guy that made a superb job:

https://i.imgur.com/TZDjSTc.jpg



That's really cool! This is how I made mine:

Image

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#31 » Oct 05 2017 06:25

The conversion you did with the flying model is sweet, where did you get the bit from?

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Haechi
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#32 » Oct 05 2017 07:02

Lostroninsoul wrote:The conversion you did with the flying model is sweet, where did you get the bit from?


Fire Warriors bodies, Pathfinders helmets, Breachers shoulderpads and guns. Then Dark Eldar Scourge backpack with the new Primaris Reavers anti grav chutes (the little wings)

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#33 » Oct 05 2017 07:06

What about the flying units head with the red hair?

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Haechi
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#34 » Oct 06 2017 03:22

Lostroninsoul wrote:What about the flying units head with the red hair?


Scourge hair with green stuff. Oh and I buy T'au female torsos and heads at zealot miniatures.

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Studioworks
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#35 » Oct 06 2017 08:10

Really nice looking conversions. Never did one, just modified a little bit the Fireblade. Really looking forward to start making some, seems really fun.

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Haechi
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Re: I'm replacing all my strike teams with breachers... on foot!

Post#36 » Oct 16 2017 02:07

I recently got to play 7 high level tournament plays in which I was fielding only 6 Breachers (the list was fixed before I started switching to them), and I can say they performed amazingly. In some games they only got to hold objectives, which is fine, but in others, notably three of them, they shined like starts.

Against another T'au opponent, my 6 Breachers got to shoot at 6 Gun Drones at maximum range and illustrated what I thought about them : They killed 5. Having 12 bolter shots at 15" is not a bad thing.

Against a Grey Knight, the 6 of them straight out killed 2 terminators at mid range.

Against CSM, the 6 of them at close range blasted away not less than 4 motorcycle with only rerolls of 1.

I'm definitely painting 30.

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