GND wrote:I have tried Breachers on foot in a couple of games (vs Space Marines) now. Honestly, I was rather skeptical it would work as desired, but I saw your posts both here and on Dakka and decided I should give it a try. I have mixed feelings about the tactic, but I think it can be refined.
- I didn't get the desired effect of the Breachers being focused down. Anti infantry firepower was still aimed primarily on Drones and Pathfinders. And it's not like my opponents don't know what Breachers are - I run a Fish full of Breachers both in 8th and 7th, and that one always gets a lot of attention (in the form of lascannons, missiles, etc.)
- The Breachers are often out of range, or in range with their inferior weapons profiles) even to units that deepstrike into my deployment zone. Their damage output is insignificant.
- Cheap troops that fill out your side of the table, hold objectives and provide distraction for enemy units that appear on your table half during the game (but you can get all this elsewhere too)
- Being fast thanks to Advance + Assault Weapons
Being constantly out range forced me to Advance them all the time and I discovered I like this form if backfield mobility very much. Rolling a 5 or 6 on advance and still hit on 5+ (sometimes 4+ 'cus of markerlights) feels good and proved useful.
So I replaced my Breachers with Strike Teams with Pulse Carbines last game and was rather pleased with the results (and no rifles won't work, I advance the units almost every turn). They are more consistent with their damage output. Those 3" of extra range help, also not being S4 at 15"-10". They lack a bit of punch the Breachers provide at >5". So why not field both and get the best of both worlds?
In my next couple of game I'll test out a mix of Carbine Strike Teams and Breachers. Probable a mix of 2 - 2 or 2 - 1 or 3 - 3. The Strike teams being more in the back, next to my table edge and Breachers up front, next to possible deepstrike zones.
GND wrote:My point that I almost always want to advance the backfield Strike Teams and fully utilize their ~9.5" movement and Rifles just don't get any shots then.
Panzer wrote:GND wrote:My point that I almost always want to advance the backfield Strike Teams and fully utilize their ~9.5" movement and Rifles just don't get any shots then.
Yeah and my point is that you ususally don't even need to advance with Rifles to do the same job while not being locked into doing only that one job in case there's no need for it.
Arka0415 wrote:Look at it this way- if, for any reason, you're inflicting -1 to hit on yourself, there must be a very, very good reason.
GND wrote:Those two are not troops, have poor leadership, lack Photon grenades and in the case of hounds, cannot shoot (I am also hitting a problem of not owning enough drones, but that's my personal issue).
I was skeptical too. Try it in a couple of games.
GND wrote:They take up space, hold objectives (Mealstorm of War style), inhibit enemy movement. Fast movement is important for those jobs. Therefore advancing. Therefore Assault weapons. If they land a couple of shots that's a nice bonus.
shasocastris wrote:And since there are six objectives in a Maelstrom mission, it's not that absurd to consider that an advancing team of fire warriors can get from one objective to another in a single turn.
shasocastris wrote:I also think it's important to not underestimate the third markerlight level. The ability to make our army effectively faster for a turn can be very off-putting to even experienced enemies.
shasocastris wrote:So I don't think anyone is arguing that drones don't have more raw firepower, but rather that carbine strike teams have a utility that hasn't been fully explored and is deserving of our attention.
shasocastris wrote:Do you ever give you strike/breacher teams a markerlight? I've done this with limited success just to have extra shots scattered around.
shasocastris wrote:And do you have an army list you could share? I'm curious now.
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