Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
raven1840
Shas
Posts: 4

Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Post#1 » Oct 02 2017 05:20

Trying to find a way to beat death guard armies and thousand sons. Both these armies are heavily weighted with psykers and forge world models.

Whilst for a while the two diamond formations worked well. What i mean is 1 consisting of 4 squads of gun drones with a commander, fireblade, and pulse drone at the centre with marker drones on commander. The 2nd diamond has 20 fire warrior pulse rifles Ethereal, fireblade, pathfinders and pulse drone with Guardian drone for two squads. As I expected they have found the way to not trigger overwatch and the other weakness of this strategy. Whilst these still work well for infantry units, they do nothing substantial against the forge world units even when you get to 18 inch range with the pulse rifle and can unleash all 63 shots.
( pulse = 30 inch range + 6 inch, rapid fire = half max range therefore 18, cadre adds 1 to half range hence 3 shots each = 60 shots plus the cadre's 3 shots).

Their initial counter to thsee diamonds was cultists bubble wrap. Smart missiles get rid of those quickly enough.

They keep at least a psyker and terminator squad in the teleport chamber ready to counter manta or deep strike units.

Taking long strike is pointless as he is priority target for them and doesn't last a battle round. The same applies to Darkstrider, rail rifle pathfinder with recon and shield drones.

I've looked at taking a 2nd Sunshark bomber as the first run over a death guard unit meant it instantly died the next turn as the pulse bomb is now so effective against infantry elites able to wipe out most units in a turn or give it a very nasty mauling.

The problem remains taking out Whirlwinds, leviathans, stormravens as I don't have enough points to drone buffer against multi wound things like that.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2168

Re: Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Post#2 » Oct 02 2017 07:35

Can you post the list(s) you've been using? Death Guard and Thousand Sons pack a real punch in this edition, with their Primarchs and all. Using synergy, close-range tactics, CIBs, and Fusion Blasters is a good start.

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 61

Re: Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Post#3 » Oct 08 2017 09:56

Had yesterday a fight against DG and didn't know what would be in before deployment...

Tau:
Outrider:
Hq: shadowsun + drones
Elite: ghostkeel wFC & 2xFB
Fa1: 3x stealth (wFusion) + shield drones
Fa2: 3x stealth (wFusion) + shield drones
Fa3: 4x shield drones
Outrider:
Hq1: xv85 3xCIB + are + shield drones
Hq2: xv85 3xCIB + are + shield drones
Fa1: 5x pathfinders
Fa2: 5x pathfinders
Fa3: 5x vespids
Fa4: 5x vespids

Death guard:
Hq: Daemon prince
Fa1: bloat drone wSplitter
Fa2: bloat drone wSplitter
Fa3: bloat drone wMauler
Fa4: 3x hauler wMissleLaunchers
Hs1: crawler wMortar
T1: cultists

They wipe out my tau almost without casualty...
One point was his alpha strike of drones which wipe almost all pathfinder (nothing new) and some of stealths.
Then I tried to fight back but... His 6x T7 and 1x T8 with 3+/5++/5+++ was so resilient (and lucky, should be mentioned) that it was not possible to kill single unit with almost all in (unlucky good inv saves against fussions) :/

Comment after match:
For "mechanized" DG more reliable should be weapons with higher daka but similar dmg/p to reduce unlucky dices.
Need to bring more economy effective S7/8 but hard to find out anything else than QCC :/

Any suggestions?

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Froglift
Shas'Saal
Posts: 83

Re: Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Post#4 » Oct 08 2017 10:39

Fusion Commanders. All day. Every day. Is there a vehicle harassing your troops? Fusion Commander. Is that annoying character just not dying? Fusion Commander. Need help getting the pickle jar open? Fusion. Commander.

Its unfortunate but they are pretty much our only reliable source of S8 at the moment.

They will save lives. Not only as a distraction but with your stealth suits you can bring the Homing beacon to pop them in fusion range and decimate anything in your path. It looks like you don't have enough reliable Anti Tank. Quad fusion can go a long way. Maybe keep some S5 for the cultists but it looks like you are fighting a lot of vehicles.

I personally run 2 Fusion Commanders in pretty much every list just so I know I can reliably take out vehicles and such. Put them in manta strike and deploy the rest of the army conservatively.

I have found that Hammer and Anvil Tactics seem to work pretty well. The bulk of your army being the anvil while the Fusion Commanders drop in the back of the enemy army destroying some key targets and splitting the enemies attention.

Target priority is KEY. Keep firing on a unit until its gone and when its gone, fire some more. I will put about 40-50% of my units in reserve so that I can see where the enemy is deploying and then put my troops on one side or the other so I can get that Hammer and Anvil shape. Focus on one side then sweep to the right. At least if you are going for tabling.

Another note did they know they were going to be playing against Tau? Some people will list tailor to the weaknesses of a specific faction, just a heads up.
We are men of action, lies do not become us.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2168

Re: Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Post#5 » Oct 09 2017 12:00

Wedrujacy wrote:Had yesterday a fight against DG and didn't know what would be in before deployment

...

They wipe out my tau almost without casualty...
One point was his alpha strike of drones which wipe almost all pathfinder (nothing new) and some of stealths.
Then I tried to fight back but... His 6x T7 and 1x T8 with 3+/5++/5+++ was so resilient (and lucky, should be mentioned) that it was not possible to kill single unit with almost all in (unlucky good inv saves against fussions) :/

Comment after match:
For "mechanized" DG more reliable should be weapons with higher daka but similar dmg/p to reduce unlucky dices.
Need to bring more economy effective S7/8 but hard to find out anything else than QCC :/

Any suggestions?

Here's the thing- this will sound a little negative, but fighting against a powerful Codex using an underpowered Index is going to be an uphill battle. Basically, more casual lists are going to be able to go toe-to-toe with more competetive Tau lists.

So, no matter what you bring, you're going to need to limit yourself to standard competetive Tau units.

That means no Shadowsun, no Fusion Blaster-carrying Stealthsuits, no Fusion Ghostkeels. Instead, bring Gun Drones, Commanders, XV8s (if you can't bring Commanders), and if you have to bring a Ghostkeel, take it with a CIR.

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Garacaius
Shas
Posts: 52
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Re: Help against death guard & thousand sons please

Post#6 » Oct 09 2017 12:38

Your opponents frown on Proxies? You can probably use Shadowsun as a proxy for a Quad Fusion Commander for now... Just replace her drones for regular Guns or Shields...

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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