Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2147

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#37 » Nov 15 2017 06:05

AleksandrGRC wrote:Ive been thinking a lot of the pay one price and choose weapons during deployment. And wishlisting it.
I feel it matches these mecha suits we play with perfectly,
Especially since im a battletech nut.

But list tailoring is bad
And tau are already seen as "that guy" by a lot of people.

Feel torn about it, i do.

Hmm, you want the ability to change your weapon profile huh... what a shame we have no such weapon :D

Image

zawyvern
Shas'Saal
Posts: 32

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#38 » Nov 16 2017 01:20

Panzer wrote:Being able to decide on Crisis weaponloadouts during deployment would be way too powerful. We could tailor our list perfectly to deal with any kind of army without any drawback while others would have to take all-comers lists. Tank heavy? Go all Fusion Blaster. Horde? Go all Flamer. Elite Infantry? Go all Plasma/CIB.
No way something like that will EVER be possible. Maybe as Stratagem. 1-2CP per unit. But even that would stretch it considering how big our Crisis units can potentially be.


I agree, I guess I should have clarified. I was thinking choosing from predetermined loadouts. Like the forgeworld commanders builds. The weapons are predetermind in the designers' favorite configurations. So no triple flamer. Probably burst cannon, flamer... I can't remember the fluff well enough to say what all of the combos were. Also the weapons would probably always be limited to 2 plus an optional system.
Anyway, silly conversation. Like you said, it won't happen.

But, I had a thought. Since the xv-8s are overpriced, minimize their expense as much as possible. If you have to use them in your list I mean.
I don't have my index on me but I believe it isn't required to fill all 3 slots. Stick to roughly 20-25 pts of weapons and add systems sparringly. It really goes against maximizing efficiency and seals the xv-8 in as a 2nd tier unit, but it may keep their costs down just enough to be tolerable.
Ex: CIB, MT, VT. -or- Dbl PR, MT. -or- Dbl BC, CDS. -or- MP, MT. -or- FB, MT, SI.
I put multitracker in there a lot, which you probably don't need if you got enough markerlights. But just to give you some ideas.
Again, not the best build. But a way for someone to use them if they don't have other models and don't want to invest too many points.

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 74

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#39 » Nov 16 2017 01:48

:)

But I thought we are fearfull that cibs will be taken away since they are not on the average crisis sprue; Ominous.
I would also like silly big manned artillery but with suits, bigger than a full on rail gun. Being seung around by a inflight coldstar, all gundam style.

Ive read it several times before but i think im convinced now to use a squad of all shield drones with three flamer suits from this thread.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#40 » Nov 16 2017 02:20

zawyvern wrote:
Panzer wrote:Being able to decide on Crisis weaponloadouts during deployment would be way too powerful. We could tailor our list perfectly to deal with any kind of army without any drawback while others would have to take all-comers lists. Tank heavy? Go all Fusion Blaster. Horde? Go all Flamer. Elite Infantry? Go all Plasma/CIB.
No way something like that will EVER be possible. Maybe as Stratagem. 1-2CP per unit. But even that would stretch it considering how big our Crisis units can potentially be.


I agree, I guess I should have clarified. I was thinking choosing from predetermined loadouts. Like the forgeworld commanders builds. The weapons are predetermind in the designers' favorite configurations. So no triple flamer. Probably burst cannon, flamer... I can't remember the fluff well enough to say what all of the combos were. Also the weapons would probably always be limited to 2 plus an optional system.
Anyway, silly conversation. Like you said, it won't happen.

But, I had a thought. Since the xv-8s are overpriced, minimize their expense as much as possible. If you have to use them in your list I mean.
I don't have my index on me but I believe it isn't required to fill all 3 slots. Stick to roughly 20-25 pts of weapons and add systems sparringly. It really goes against maximizing efficiency and seals the xv-8 in as a 2nd tier unit, but it may keep their costs down just enough to be tolerable.
Ex: CIB, MT, VT. -or- Dbl PR, MT. -or- Dbl BC, CDS. -or- MP, MT. -or- FB, MT, SI.
I put multitracker in there a lot, which you probably don't need if you got enough markerlights. But just to give you some ideas.
Again, not the best build. But a way for someone to use them if they don't have other models and don't want to invest too many points.

Urgh I'd hate Crisis with fix loadouts. Customisation > fix loadouts. And Crisis are the only unit we can customize properly anyway. There's literally nothing positive about fix loadouts except maybe it's easier for GW to balance (not that it would be properly balanced anyway).

Taking less weapons per Crisis Suits only makes them less point efficient since you'd be paying the same base cost but get less for it. Our problem is not how much Crisis cost, our problem is how cost efficient they are. If they were worth their ~300p per unit I'd happily pay those points. ;)


AleksandrGRC wrote::)

But I thought we are fearfull that cibs will be taken away since they are not on the average crisis sprue; Ominous.
I would also like silly big manned artillery but with suits, bigger than a full on rail gun. Being seung around by a inflight coldstar, all gundam style.

Ive read it several times before but i think im convinced now to use a squad of all shield drones with three flamer suits from this thread.

Not fearfull, just keeping that possibility in mind. ;)
We already do have artillery suits. Let me introduce you to the Broadside and the Stormsurge. We aren't Astra Militarum who have a big gun and people standing behind it...we ARE the gun. :D

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 74

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#41 » Nov 17 2017 01:43

Now Hear me out, squats.

Like orbital battery sized squat ion cannons. manned by broadsides.

Wait. Supremacy.

i just get giddy thinking of extreme size ratio imbalance .

User avatar
Garacaius
Shas
Posts: 49
Contact:

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#42 » Dec 08 2017 02:21

Does the new Marker stratagem change any considerations here?

I find outfitting a whole unit of Crisis Suits the same to be boring, but efficient.

I really like idea of a Crisis Team having separate load outs for maximum flexibility on a mission, but that's more a Kill Team thing than proper 40K.
Last edited by Garacaius on Dec 08 2017 03:31, edited 1 time in total.

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2147

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#43 » Dec 08 2017 03:08

Garacaius wrote:Does the new Marker stratagem change any considerations here?

I find unit asking a whole unit of Crisis Suits boring, but efficient.

I really like idea of a Crisis Team having separate load outs for maximum flexibility on a mission, but that's more a Kill Team thing than proper 40K.

No matter how accurate the are, equipping a squad with a variety of short-range guns is never a good idea. Now, if Missile Pods were very cheap, I could definitely see XV8s with two short range guns and one Missile Pod each- the Missile Pod's huge range would allow it to engage any target from far away. However, since Missile Pods are frighteningly expensive right now, that trick won't work for the time being.

Anyway, the new stratagem still won't change XV8 loadouts. XV8s need to get in close to kill their targets, so specialization is an absolute must, and always has been.

Nymphomanius
Shas'Saal
Posts: 361
Contact:

Re: Throwing out the mold: the merits of despecialization in crisis teams

Post#44 » Dec 08 2017 05:31

Arka0415 wrote:
Garacaius wrote:Does the new Marker stratagem change any considerations here?

I find unit asking a whole unit of Crisis Suits boring, but efficient.

I really like idea of a Crisis Team having separate load outs for maximum flexibility on a mission, but that's more a Kill Team thing than proper 40K.

No matter how accurate the are, equipping a squad with a variety of short-range guns is never a good idea. Now, if Missile Pods were very cheap, I could definitely see XV8s with two short range guns and one Missile Pod each- the Missile Pod's huge range would allow it to engage any target from far away. However, since Missile Pods are frighteningly expensive right now, that trick won't work for the time being.

Anyway, the new stratagem still won't change XV8 loadouts. XV8s need to get in close to kill their targets, so specialization is an absolute must, and always has been.


However autocannons just had a price reduction for astra millitarum all the way down to 12pts if you can argue that the difference between heavy and assault is 33% accuracy on the move so should cost 33% more then reasonable logic says our missile pod should be 16pts each in our codex.

But you know GW would have to want the cost to be fair and balanced and use common sense for that to happen :D

Return to “Tau Tactics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests