The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Garacaius
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#19 » Oct 18 2017 01:27

Nymphomanius wrote:Does anyone rate burst cannons at all for crisis suits?
A squad of 3x3 will do 7.8 wounds to GEQ vs 7.4 for CIB and is 72 points cheaper which coincidentally would be another suit so for same points you get 10.5 wounds vs 7.4 and an extra body.


I think that's a good point on the points. 36 shots at S5 for 216 points. This is less than the Strike Team equivalent which is only 27 shots for 216 points. The analysis departs when you figure in the ranges, though.

We should figure in opportunity cost of using an elite slot for lawn-mowing rather than elite, HQ or heavy hunting though.

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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Arka0415
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#20 » Oct 18 2017 02:43

Garacaius wrote:This is less than the Strike Team equivalent which is only 27 shots for 216 points. The analysis departs when you figure in the ranges, though.

Fire Warriors are all about getting in to rapid-fire range though. Is the target outside of 18"? The Fire Warriors are better because the XV8s are out of range. Is the target at or within 15"? The Fire Warriors are better as they get many more shots.

XV8s with Burst Cannons are really only better than Fire Warriors within the 15"-18" range band, which really isn't much.

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Panzer
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#21 » Oct 18 2017 02:54

Especially when you could take Pulse Carbines for that very specific range where they would be better again. :D

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Garacaius
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#22 » Oct 21 2017 12:11

Ugh, I'd feel wrong putting carbines on my FW models, though.

In any event, many thanks everyone for the input. I've learned much, though painting XV8s are my favourite thing so far.

I hope costs will go down or value up come March.

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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Panzer
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#23 » Oct 21 2017 04:28

Garacaius wrote:Ugh, I'd feel wrong putting carbines on my FW models, though.

That's why you take Gun Drones for Carbines. ;)

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Arka0415
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#24 » Oct 21 2017 04:41

Garacaius wrote:Ugh, I'd feel wrong putting carbines on my FW models, though.

Don't worry, no one's saying to do that! Unless they buff Pulse Carbines and nerf Gun Drones, the Fire Warrior weapon of choice will be the Pulse Rifle.

By the way, where's this March rumor coming from?

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Panzer
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#25 » Oct 21 2017 04:53

Arka0415 wrote:
Garacaius wrote:Ugh, I'd feel wrong putting carbines on my FW models, though.

Don't worry, no one's saying to do that! Unless they buff Pulse Carbines and nerf Gun Drones, the Fire Warrior weapon of choice will be the Pulse Rifle.

By the way, where's this March rumor coming from?

Some source he doesn't want to name. Aka not credible at all. ^^

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Arka0415
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#26 » Oct 21 2017 04:59

Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:By the way, where's this March rumor coming from?

Some source he doesn't want to name. Aka not credible at all. ^^

Huh. I could have sworn a few other users mentioned it. Whatever. Let's keep our hopes up for December then! :P

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Panzer
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#27 » Oct 21 2017 05:03

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:By the way, where's this March rumor coming from?

Some source he doesn't want to name. Aka not credible at all. ^^

Huh. I could have sworn a few other users mentioned it. Whatever. Let's keep our hopes up for December then! :P

Yeah I mentioned that I heard so as well based on a comment on Atias blog but that was him posting there as well. A few others have mentioned something like early next year but that was more guessing/hoping than actual knowledge.

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Garacaius
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#28 » Oct 21 2017 09:30

From what I've read, the March link is to some new model releases rumoured. Whether that's credible, I don't know, but of the dates I've seen (December and March), I figure I'd use the latter as a conservative measure.

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#29 » Dec 08 2017 01:51

I've discovered something interesting. For a while now people wanted crisis suits to be good at something. Crisis suits can be great tank killers, if they lean on the new markerlight stratagem. They are only slighly less efficient than Fusion Blaster commanders.

Against a T7/+3 save (generally 13 wounds):

Fb Commander= 7.777damage (~20.57 points per wound)

Assuming 6 marker drones with a DC =~3.33 markerlights and the stratagem =~2, I like this crisis team load out: 3 suits, 8 Fb ,1 dc ,6 marker drones, and 1 cp.

Fb crisis= 14.518 damage (~24.727 points/wound)

I am thinking taking a FB crisis team can take some of the heavy lifting FB commanders are currently filling. This makes commanders more free to be the cheaper CIB commanders. This also lets our crisis be playable enough to be considered possibly as "competitive".

Additionally, the crisis teams bad FB rolls can be supplements with seeker/destroyer missiles if the job isnt finished. Downside is it puts a lot of weight on the cp stratagem and markerlights being average rolls. Also the use of a cp point.

"What are your thoughts?" -famous words from one of ATT's finest, Arka0415-

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Yojimbob
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#30 » Dec 08 2017 04:18

I think that's not too bad honestly. I figured with the new stratagem you'll be seeing a LOT of things becoming palatable for crisis to take over for commanders. Upside is more wounds, downside is placement and the fact that you still need less to support the commanders and it's STILL more points efficient. But when they drop the price on things and likely boost the points on the commander, we may see crisis in a good spot internally for our codex. I don't see the use of the CP to be a big deal at all if you build the list around it. I generally just burn it for rerolls and most of the time haphazardly.

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#31 » Dec 08 2017 05:18

I personally am reconsidering my 1-2 crisis teams and only considering them as fusion blasters. It's a hefty investment, but the cp stratagem makes a single team playable. A second team would optimally be dropped on a different turn due to cp stratagem being a once a turn effect. But it's still sweet to have some list flexibility without having to invest in commanders whose fate is uncertain comes codex time, since crisis suits are a common unit that most tau players have at least one set of. It's in the start collecting set as well. If crisis takes point on tank killing what is the optimal place for commanders? I suspect CIB x3 with ats. This helps with swarm lists, but can still shoot at big targets ok.
Against a t7/+3 save:

cibx3+ats,Com= 4.444 damage (~31.050 pts/wounds)

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Garacaius
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Re: The Confused Shas'el -- A Discussion on Battlefield Role for Crisis Battlesuits

Post#32 » Dec 09 2017 03:51

3 x CIB + ATS is reliable TEQ hunter too.

Anti-Elites.

I ended up going 2 x Fusion + Flamer for my Crisis Team. I'll have to look at replacing the Flamer now.

Thanks for this!

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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