Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Arka0415
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Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#1 » Oct 20 2017 09:05

Now that we've all been playing 8th Edition for months now, what are your thoughts on the Sun Shark Bomber?

It's a great source of mortal wounds, carries two Seeker Missiles, and has great S7/S8 shooting options as well. It also synergizes well with Markerlights, as it gets meaningful benefits with every Markerlight hit.

However, it's impossible to reliably hit the same unit twice, it's foiled somewhat by MSU tactics, and is one of our flimsier vehicles at T6/Sv4+. It's also expensive, coming in at close to 200 points.

What do you all think?

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Garacaius
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#2 » Oct 21 2017 12:04

Pardon my ignorance, but what does MSU stand for?

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

Ko'Vash
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#3 » Oct 21 2017 01:04

Minimum Sized Unit

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Arka0415
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#4 » Oct 21 2017 02:59

I've heard "Multiple Small Units" but you get the idea. Bring lots of little things instead of a few big things. MSU is good for loads of reasons. It's not good for some synergies and kill point games though.

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QimRas
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#5 » Oct 21 2017 03:04

Personally, I am a huge fan. They are a cheap platform for removing infantry, and functional at putting wounds on larger models that run in packs, like Vypers or Terminators.

Also, one thing to remember is that the bombs are dropped in the movement phase. This means you can see how many models are removed by the bombs before deciding what weapons you want to shoot and at what targets.

As for bombing runs, it makes sense to use a pair, and set them up so they follow each other. That way you can move one, resolve the bombs, then move the other either to cross another target or to hit a target again.

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Panzer
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#6 » Oct 21 2017 04:39

Yeah MSU usually stands for Multiple Small Units.

About the Sunshark..well I still haven't gotten around buying one unfortunately. Currently almost everything is put on hold for me. Waiting on the T'au Codex, waiting on the Emperor's Children Codex (or even just rumours/leaks), waiting on melee Primaris. The only thing I might do soon is getting myself some Daemons to convert.
Apart from that I'm just playing with the same old partially painted models I already have. :D

That being said, I don't think the Sunshark is worth it against serious lists. Space Marines can easily wreck it turn 1 with Lascannons. When you have BS3+ re-rolling 1s on your Lascannons you really don't care whether a T6 model has a single -1 to-hit modifier or not. Other Codex armies are in a similar boat.
Hell even Mortarion often gets shot off the table turn 1 from what I've seen.
Considering the Space Marines Assault Cannon Razorback packs 12 24" S6 AP-1 D1 shots at BS3+ on a T7 W10 Sv3+ body and is also a small Transport for just 100p, I'd say the Sunshark would need a drastic point decrease. 130p or something along the lines.
(FYI, our unit closest to an AssBack is our Twin Heavy Burst Cannon Hammerhead from FW which costs without secondary weaponsystem 187p [so +16p for Gun Drones which makes him twice as expensive for its main gun] for 16 36" S6 AP-1 D1 on T7 W13 Sv3+ body)

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Studioworks
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#7 » Oct 21 2017 04:54

Right now I'm painting one and can't wait to try it. I think it will work perfect against heavy infantry armies like Deathwatch and Grey Knights (I play against both). Maybe not the best unit, but I usually play fluffy battles and it will be a perfect addition to my army.

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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#8 » Oct 21 2017 09:25

As the Pulse Bombs also ignore cover and don't need LOS they are lovely to use on cover-heavy tables especially on those nearly immobile units with heavy weapons in ruins like Scouts with camo-cloaks threatening your fireblades.

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Jefffar
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#9 » Oct 21 2017 01:25

If you're worried about first turn shoot downs, why not hold in reserve?

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AnonAmbientLight
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#10 » Oct 21 2017 02:27

The bomber has the potential to be good, but I think it needs a little more of a push to get it there. I think the general idea is that it can shine in some lists, but I think there's a reason why it isn't taken competitively. As with most things, the codex has stuff that's good, but there's other things that are just better. Why take a bomber when you can take another commander, or hammerhead.

I'm waiting for the codex to drop before I get excited about any of the units. I have a good feeling it will be this year.
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Panzer
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#11 » Oct 21 2017 05:06

Jefffar wrote:If you're worried about first turn shoot downs, why not hold in reserve?

Because you can't just hold things back in reserve in 8th anymore. Only units that have the rule to do so (Manta Strike for example).

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Jefffar
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#12 » Oct 21 2017 07:15

If you are referring to page 215 of the main rulebook, there is nothing in that passage that prevents you from putting units into reserves. It just prevents you from putting more than half your force into reserve, even if they have the special ability to enter play midway through the game.

Reserves is still a mission special rule (pg 194). The text on page 215 to me implies that Reserves are a part of the rules for all matched play missions.

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Panzer
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#13 » Oct 22 2017 01:35

There's also no rule that says you can't take your oppents models and place them somewhete else. Things don't have to be forbidden in the rules. You can't do anything that isn't allowed. And putting units who don't have such a special rule (or a mission/stratagem/warlord trait/ etc. that specifically allows you to do so) into reserves just doesn't exist anymore in 8th.
That's a relic from 7th.
Everything has to be deployed on the table unless explicitly allowed otherwise.

So since the sunshark has no rule on its datasheet that allowd it to be set up in reserves and we have no stratagems etc. to do so and missions usually don't allow you to set up random units in reserves either unless it's a narrative mission with a specific scenario in mind, you simply can't put the Sunshark into reserves.

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Jefffar
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#14 » Oct 22 2017 07:09

Agreed.

But the text on page 215 heavily implies to me that reserves is a default rule for matched play.

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QimRas
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#15 » Oct 22 2017 07:28

Jefffar wrote:Agreed.

But the text on page 215 heavily implies to me that reserves is a default rule for matched play.


Tactical Reserves does not imply anything. It states that units can be put in reserve if they have an ability that lets them do so, and that only 50% of your army can do so, regardless of how many have the rule.

That said, that rule only applies to matched play and other game modes could allow that strategy to be used. How do you folks think the Sun Shark fairs in other game modes? I have used it in a couple Open War games to great advantage when it comes to removing Infantry. I am likely going to bring then consistently against my girlfriend who is setting up an Alaitoc Aeldari formation that is straight up frustrating. Three units of Alaitoc Rangers led by a Warlock with Conceal. Once the Warlock casts, the whole group has a -3 to hit except the warlock, who has a -2, but is a Character. Our base 4+ becomes a 7+. There are a few ways around that, but most require a lot of resources thrown at the problem. Sun Sharks Bombs are not considered a to-hit roll, so each pass they will kill 50% of a ranger unit.

I think it could show well in Death From the Skies missions as well, as all the weapons on it are effectively turret weapons, so pretty much get to ignore fire arcs.

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QimRas
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#16 » Oct 22 2017 07:47

Oh, and following up on my last post... Looks like bombs can target Characters. This won't do much good against most characters since you would need so many bombing runs, but in a situation like I posted before where a Warlock is backing up rangers making them impossible to hit, it may not be a bad idea. A pair of Sun Sharks have a roughly 25% chance to remove both of the Warlocks 2 wounds ins a single pass, opening up the rangers to actually be hitable. Not an efficient use, for sure, but its doable. If you are not in the habit of bringing Sniper Drones its the only other way to remove the Warlock.

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Garacaius
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#17 » Oct 22 2017 08:45

QimRas wrote:Oh, and following up on my last post... Looks like bombs can target Characters. This won't do much good against most characters since you would need so many bombing runs, but in a situation like I posted before where a Warlock is backing up rangers making them impossible to hit, it may not be a bad idea. A pair of Sun Sharks have a roughly 25% chance to remove both of the Warlocks 2 wounds ins a single pass, opening up the rangers to actually be hitable. Not an efficient use, for sure, but its doable. If you are not in the habit of bringing Sniper Drones its the only other way to remove the Warlock.


I wish that was so, but I'm not sure Sniper Drones as they are can even do that...

Just bought a Sunshark, I look forward to using it and finding out how it works with my local meta.

“Just one game,” they said and started to play. That was yesterday...

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Ghostly Daemon
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Re: Follow-Up on the Sun Shark Bomber

Post#18 » Oct 23 2017 05:50

I actually got one as a birthday present not long ago, finished painting it and I think it's a beautiful model, plus I have quite the soft spot for flyers!

As for it's effectiveness in game, I've found it to be pretty damn good. Generally I use it to fly over threatening heavy weapons teams (Lascannons, Devastators, the like) and bomb the ever loving stuff out of them. Failing that, it's got enough weapons to deal with any potential poor dice rolls that didn't blow them up in the first place :D (plus with a -1 to hit, that means more chance at blowing yourself up with an overcharged las shot!).

I try and think of it as more of a distraction unit. If it kills enough models, it can help our bigger suits stay alive longer and if it doesn't, people are generally scared enough that they'll try and shoot it before anything else, meaning I have more time to manouever and shoot with our bigger suits. I don't think it's necessarily about earning points back - it's more about utility.
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