New player

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
User avatar
Rayne
Shas
Posts: 3

New player

Post#1 » Oct 23 2017 04:20

G'day mates

I am a new player, though have been into Warhammer for a long time.
With the release of 8th I figured I might as well give this a go.
So far I've played 2 games, both against Black Templars, and won both games. The resources here have been incredibly helpful, so thanks for that mates.
Though I had some questions regarding a few of the common recommendations, which the FAQ doesn't entirely clarify, or any other threads I looked for.
For instance, Fusion Commanders. Used one to great effect along with Fusion Crisis suits in my last game. Manta dropped them behind a Baneblade and watched it explode.
Though in the turn after that, my commander got barraged by one of his Dreadnoughts, I forgot which one. He had a Deredeo, a Leviathan, and a third whose name I forgot, though I recall it looked like a egg with legs.
Either way, he got blown up instantly. Failed the invulnerable saves on both my shield drones on the first 2 wounds, leaving him entirely open.
Bad luck aside, why is the Fusion Commander set up so vulnerable? Why not take 3 Fusion Blasters and 1 Shield Generator? I figure that'd increase his survivability some so he would at least survive 1 turn after being dropped.
Or are they literally just supposed to be glass cannons?
I also notice that auxiliary races hardly ever get used, though I haven't exactly found a reason why. I reckon bad point/efficiency rating? I find that kind of a shame, because both the Vespid and Kroot look amazing. I like how their more 'brutal' contrasts with the sleek efficiency of the Tau themselves, though aesthetic reasons are a pretty bad reason if they fail strategically.
I think that's about it. If anyone could clarify this some, that'd be great. :D
Last edited by Rayne on Oct 23 2017 05:12, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Kakapo42
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 937

Re: New player

Post#2 » Oct 23 2017 05:02

Rayne, I would advise you to pay careful attention to the language you use when posting. ATT maintains a policy of using family appropriate language on the forum, in order to ensure that no-one potentially viewing the forum is offended by the content on it, which can be read here in the forum guidelines, which all new members should read before posting.

ATT Guidelines wrote:Using swear words and other inappropriate language is not permitted. Please make sure that no one can be offended by anything they may read here by keeping bad language, double entendres and so forth out of our forums. Self-censorship is also not accepted, as this shows the content was inappropriate in the first place.


I noticed several places in your post where the site's automatic censor was triggered. This generally means you should revise your post to remove the offending language - the censor should be seen as an indicator of inappropriate language that should be changed and an easy way to locate it for removal, rather than a safety net to cover up such language. Furthermore, I have also seen multiple uses of a modified spelling for profanity that slipped past the censor program - this is really not OK on the forum.

I will be leaving this thread open for now, as it does raise a point that could be further explored, but I suggest you closely read over the forum rules and information contained in our membership primers found here before continuing with posting.
A Shas and a Kor walk into a bar...
Naked Metal

User avatar
Rayne
Shas
Posts: 3

Re: New player

Post#3 » Oct 23 2017 05:12

Must've missed that bit, my bad.
Edited my previous post

Nymphomanius
Shas
Posts: 287
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#4 » Oct 23 2017 10:26

In terms of the Fusion Commander it basically comes down to a shield generator may make your opponent more shots to take him down but if they want him dead with only 6 wounds a few autocannon will do the job and then the shield generator will have been useless.

It's better off to increase your chances of killing your prey than wound it and possibly survive a counter attack.

The auxiliary races can be useful it's more an each to their own scenario I do like a kroot unit as an "alpha strike" shield with their 7" move you can stop alpha strike and fast chargers from hitting your main line on turn 1

I have never used Vespid before on paper they seem like an anti elite infantry version of fusion Commander, fire and forget, use em to assassinate a unit and expect them to die as with their guns your opponent won't want them to have a second volley.

User avatar
Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 376

Re: New player

Post#5 » Oct 23 2017 01:21

I have found vespid to be very useful in small games where cheap, fast units with good weapons are invaluable to snag objectives and push people off of them when need be. I have seen others using kroot exclusively to keep first turn assaults or deep strikes from getting a little too close to home. I personally don't use them but I have never really liked kroot much.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1933

Re: New player

Post#6 » Oct 23 2017 10:36

Nymphomanius wrote:In terms of the Fusion Commander it basically comes down to a shield generator may make your opponent more shots to take him down but if they want him dead with only 6 wounds a few autocannon will do the job and then the shield generator will have been useless.

It's better off to increase your chances of killing your prey than wound it and possibly survive a counter attack.

This is exactly it. We Tau are an alpha strike army- use your firepower to remove the threats that can hurt the Commander, and you won't need the Shield Generator.

User avatar
StealthKnightSteg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 145
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#7 » Oct 24 2017 03:58

Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:In terms of the Fusion Commander it basically comes down to a shield generator may make your opponent more shots to take him down but if they want him dead with only 6 wounds a few autocannon will do the job and then the shield generator will have been useless.

It's better off to increase your chances of killing your prey than wound it and possibly survive a counter attack.

This is exactly it. We Tau are an alpha strike army- use your firepower to remove the threats that can hurt the Commander, and you won't need the Shield Generator.


Problem is that almost anything can hurt the commander..

Nymphomanius
Shas
Posts: 287
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#8 » Oct 24 2017 04:05

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:In terms of the Fusion Commander it basically comes down to a shield generator may make your opponent more shots to take him down but if they want him dead with only 6 wounds a few autocannon will do the job and then the shield generator will have been useless.

It's better off to increase your chances of killing your prey than wound it and possibly survive a counter attack.

This is exactly it. We Tau are an alpha strike army- use your firepower to remove the threats that can hurt the Commander, and you won't need the Shield Generator.


Problem is that almost anything can hurt the commander..


That's the point best use is to drop and pop whatever tank you want and if he dies then that's less shooting at your main force, he is not designed to live past the next turn and that's why unless he is your only character he shouldn't be your warlord

User avatar
StealthKnightSteg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 145
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#9 » Oct 24 2017 04:09

Nymphomanius wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:This is exactly it. We Tau are an alpha strike army- use your firepower to remove the threats that can hurt the Commander, and you won't need the Shield Generator.


Problem is that almost anything can hurt the commander..


That's the point best use is to drop and pop whatever tank you want and if he dies then that's less shooting at your main force, he is not designed to live past the next turn and that's why unless he is your only character he shouldn't be your warlord


exactly :)
So now my squishy little ethereal is... it's fluffy, but also not a very solid choice gameplaywise in my opinion

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1933

Re: New player

Post#10 » Oct 24 2017 05:33

StealthKnightSteg wrote:Problem is that almost anything can hurt the commander..

Try to have a little more faith in our Commanders! :D They aren't on the board for the first turn if you're going second, they're behind Shield Drones and so usually can't be targeted, they have T5, W6, and Sv3+, and they're probably standing in front of the burning wreck of whatever the enemy was going to kill them with.

User avatar
StealthKnightSteg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 145
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#11 » Oct 24 2017 05:51

Arka0415 wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:Problem is that almost anything can hurt the commander..

Try to have a little more faith in our Commanders! :D They aren't on the board for the first turn if you're going second, they're behind Shield Drones and so usually can't be targeted, they have T5, W6, and Sv3+, and they're probably standing in front of the burning wreck of whatever the enemy was going to kill them with.


I have faith in our Commanders doing their job and blowing up their prime target.. I also have faith in my opponents not being happy about him and focusing him down asap with everything they got in range and then those 2 shield drones won't last long either :biggrin:

Nymphomanius
Shas
Posts: 287
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#12 » Oct 24 2017 06:13

Ooh I literally just had a thought for what may hopefully become a stratagem that fits in with this.

Retaliation 2CP
At the start of your shooting phase
Select 3 units that have arrived by Manta strike this turn and are within 12" of each other.
Any units with the character keyword have +1 to their wound rolls until the end of this phase
Any other units instead receive +1 to hit until the end of the phase.

Would give a boost to QFC and give a good reason to drop in other units to support him amd provide meat Shields for return fire :D

User avatar
GND
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 112

Re: New player

Post#13 » Oct 24 2017 06:16

Commanders already have the best possible protection built into them - the Character rule. In most of my games Commanders last at least two turns on the table, usually more. And I don't even spam them to abuse the Character rule (scattering many characters over the battlefield so only a fraction of the opponents army can shoot at each of them).

Since you usually don't put Flamers or Plasma Riffles on Commanders you have at least 18" range on your guns when you Manta Strike in. No need to be 9.1" away from you target. Land a little further up back a place something between the opponents army an your Commander a he should have no problems surviving, making the choice of Shield Generator redundant. The best thing to put in "between" is usually a bunch Drones, either those on the table already (advance them if you need to) or those that can be Manta Striked in with XV8s or XV9s.

If you feel threatened by some specific static units (like Lascannon Devastators), you only need to move something different closer (but in LoS) to said unit, and disallow them to target your Commander. Piranhas, Vespid, Kroot hounds are good for this. Just make sure the distraction is sturdy enough/positioned correctly, as this tactic doesn't really work if your opponent can kill the distraction and then shoot the lascanons at your Commander.

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: New player

Post#14 » Oct 24 2017 07:45

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Problem is that almost anything can hurt the commander..


That's the point best use is to drop and pop whatever tank you want and if he dies then that's less shooting at your main force, he is not designed to live past the next turn and that's why unless he is your only character he shouldn't be your warlord

but also not a very solid choice gameplaywise in my opinion

And that's where you are wrong. It's one of the best things we can do currently. It's tested and judged as good. Not just good, it's actually needed even since our other anti-tank options are rather meh in comparison.

User avatar
StealthKnightSteg
Shas'Saal
Posts: 145
Contact:

Re: New player

Post#15 » Oct 24 2017 07:51

Panzer wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
That's the point best use is to drop and pop whatever tank you want and if he dies then that's less shooting at your main force, he is not designed to live past the next turn and that's why unless he is your only character he shouldn't be your warlord

but also not a very solid choice gameplaywise in my opinion

And that's where you are wrong. It's one of the best things we can do currently. It's tested and judged as good. Not just good, it's actually needed even since our other anti-tank options are rather meh in comparison.


I think the quotes got screwed up / mixed up here as that comment was made on making the ethereal my warlord choice. As I find that is not a good idea gameplaywise. Had nothing to do with the Commander to be honest :)

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1933

Re: New player

Post#16 » Oct 24 2017 07:52

Panzer wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote: but also not a very solid choice gameplaywise in my opinion

And that's where you are wrong. It's one of the best things we can do currently. It's tested and judged as good. Not just good, it's actually needed even since our other anti-tank options are rather meh in comparison.

StealthKnightSteg was referring to the Ethereal, which isn't really a solid choice. I don't think anyone's doubting the extreme killing power of the Fusion Commander- just its durability.

Edit: One minute late! :D

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: New player

Post#17 » Oct 24 2017 08:03

Oh I see, my bad then.
Well to be fair. Sniper are generally so bad that barely anyone takes one so I don't really see how an Ethereal is that much worse of a choice for a Warlord than a Commander or a Fireblade. In most cases it won't make much of a difference. :P

User avatar
Rayne
Shas
Posts: 3

Re: New player

Post#18 » Oct 24 2017 08:05

GND wrote:Since you usually don't put Flamers or Plasma Riffles on Commanders you have at least 18" range on your guns when you Manta Strike in. No need to be 9.1" away from you target.

I actually dropped my commander on 9" so he could get the 'advantage' roll on his weapons.
So I guess that's not really worth it.

I used Kroot in my first game to meatshield my strike team, though was rather disappointed with their performance.

I did use Vespid in both games, both times dropped in range of my mate's heavy weapon teams squatting in cover. They nullified the cover bonus and killed quite some marines. My mate wasn't very amused.
Though because of their lack in most lists I wondered if there was anything more cost efficient to eliminate heavy weapons from cover.

Return to “Tau Tactics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest