Going against the nids

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Going against the nids

Post#1 » Oct 31 2017 07:57

Hi guys! I have a question,
I sm wuite new at playing tau butt i have made some good results so far with my current list ( i was 3rd on my last tournament), my list is quite marine killing list butt i will play against the nids today! I really don't know how to deploy it as i am sure i wont get the first turn! And what to go after first! Please give me little pointer tips! This is my list

++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [35 PL, 770pts] ++

+ HQ [35 PL, 770pts] +

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system [8pts], 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts], MV1 Gun Drone [8pts], MV4 Shield Drone [8pts]

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system [8pts], 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts], MV1 Gun Drone [8pts], MV4 Shield Drone [8pts]

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system [8pts], 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts], MV1 Gun Drone [8pts], MV4 Shield Drone [8pts]

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system [8pts], 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts], MV1 Gun Drone [8pts], MV4 Shield Drone [8pts]

Commander [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system [8pts], 3x Cyclic ion blaster [54pts], MV1 Gun Drone [8pts], MV4 Shield Drone [8pts]

++ Spearhead Detachment +1CP (T'au Empire) [74 PL, 1230pts] ++

+ HQ [6 PL, 110pts] +

Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 60pts]: Markerlight [3pts], MV4 Shield Drone [8pts], MV7 Marker Drone [10pts]

Ethereal [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone [1 PL, 5pts]

+ Troops [15 PL, 168pts] +

Strike Team [5 PL, 56pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [8pts]: Pulse rifle
. 6x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [48pts]

Strike Team [5 PL, 56pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [8pts]: Pulse rifle
. 6x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [48pts]

Strike Team [5 PL, 56pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui [8pts]: Pulse rifle
. 6x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle [48pts]

+ Fast Attack [6 PL, 80pts] +

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Pathfinder [32pts]: 4x Markerlight [12pts]
. Pathfinder Shas'ui [8pts]: Markerlight [3pts]

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. 4x Pathfinder [32pts]: 4x Markerlight [12pts]
. Pathfinder Shas'ui [8pts]: Markerlight [3pts]

+ Heavy Support [38 PL, 705pts] +

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 188pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone [16pts], Ion cannon [55pts]

TX7 Hammerhead Gunship [10 PL, 171pts]: 2x MV1 Gun Drone [16pts], Railgun [38pts]

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [9 PL, 173pts]
. Broadside Shas'ui [9 PL, 173pts]: 2x Plasma rifle [22pts], Advanced targeting system [8pts], Heavy rail rifle [63pts]

XV88 Broadside Battlesuits [9 PL, 173pts]
. Broadside Shas'ui [9 PL, 173pts]: 2x Plasma rifle [22pts], Advanced targeting system [8pts], Heavy rail rifle [63pts]

+ Flyer [9 PL, 167pts] +

AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Missile pod [24pts], 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone [30pts], 2x Seeker missile [10pts]

++ Total: [109 PL, 2000pts] ++

Wht do you think? I was also thinking of dropping my hammerheads and xv88s and getting a stormsurge :)

User avatar
Beerson
Shas'Saal
Posts: 72

Re: Going against the nids

Post#2 » Oct 31 2017 10:16

Can't help with your problem unfortunatelly, but I should let you know that you can't write individual points, only points per whole unit, so you should edit the list to avoid trouble :)

Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Going against the nids

Post#3 » Oct 31 2017 04:18

What do you mean by that?

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Going against the nids

Post#4 » Oct 31 2017 04:24

Dekifelipe wrote:What do you mean by that?

He means that you shouldn't write
"AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight [3pts], Missile pod [24pts], 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone [30pts], 2x Seeker missile [10pts]"

and instead
"AX39 Sun Shark Bomber [9 PL, 167pts]: Markerlight, Missile pod, 2x MV17 Interceptor Drone, 2x Seeker missile"

If you have to list everything. ;)

User avatar
SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 174

Re: Going against the nids

Post#5 » Oct 31 2017 10:46

On playing against nids, my best advice would be stay away from genestealers. They can and in my experience have torn apart TANKS easily in cc. Also, try take out any flyers/shooty things ASAP to save your sunshark. mine was taken down first turn by a tyrannofex.

Sniper

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1933

Re: Going against the nids

Post#6 » Nov 01 2017 12:26

To play against Tyranids, you need good anti-monster (same as anti-vehicle) firepower, you need good overwatch, and you need great anti-infantry. We don't know what good Tyranid armies look like yet (the new Codex isn't quite out) but we can guess- probably a few big monsters and lots of fast infantry.

In your list, the Fire Warriors, Sun Shark, and Commanders are all great. Broadsides usually aren't good, but... I wonder if they might be effective against Carnifexes and other T7 creatures. Maybe. Let's keep them in. Two Hammerheads and two Broadsides is a lot though. Also, I wouldn't include the Sun Shark- it's good at bombing elite infantry, but it's not good against hordes or large monsters. With those points open, we can add more Markerlights and Gun Drones. Anyway, here's what I'd do:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs, ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
Troops - 7x Fire Warriors (56)
Troops - 7x Fire Warriors (56)
Troops - 7x Fire Warriors (56)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Pathfinders (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Heavy Support - Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x Smart Missile Systems, Velocity Tracker; 2x Shield Drones (201)
Heavy Support - Broadside w/ Heavy Rail Rifle, 2x Smart Missile Systems, Velocity Tracker; 2x Shield Drones (201)
Heavy Support - Hammerhead Gunship w/ Railgun, 2x Seeker Missiles; 2x Gun Drones (181)

Total: 2002 - Command Points: 9 (1 Supreme Command, 1 Battalion, 1 Outrider, 1 Spearhead)

The difference here is that one Commander gets four Fusion Blasters, there's no Ethereal, there are two more Pathfinders, and no Sun Shark. In its place there's a lot more anti-infantry fire in the form of the Broadside SMS and extra Gun Drones. There's extra anti-monster in the form of Longstrike (he gets anti-monster bonuses!) and his SMS, the extra Railgun, and the Fusion Blasters.

This is just a brainstorm though. What do you think?

Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Going against the nids

Post#7 » Nov 01 2017 01:12

I think i should try this list which you wrote but i tried my list agsinst the nids yesterday and i wipped them ou!
He was running quite good list with 70 geenesteslers, 2x carnifex, hive tirants 2x, warriors, leppard lictor, and few more monsters which i forgot their names with 30 i think termsgaunts with 3 shots each.

However he got the first turn and started going toward me, he shot 5 fw, snd failed charges on lictor and flyrant so my fire line killed lictor in overwatch and wounded flyrant.
In my turn i manta striked commanders behind enemy lines and strted some dakka. I killed of genestealers and 4 warriors and left hive tyrant on 2 wounds, flyrant was on one wound butt killed with seeker missile from sun shark (for me is really effective with pulse bombs and ion rifles).

2nd turn he came charging into my commanders and overwatch killed 8 genesteslers and he managed to kill of 9 drones (saviour protocols). I flew out of combat with each commander his own way :) and you can imagine what happened to a bunch of pilled in bugz! I killed hive tyrant and everything else then was piece of cake!

User avatar
SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 174

Re: Going against the nids

Post#8 » Nov 01 2017 01:21

Very nice! great to see your list having success.

Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Going against the nids

Post#9 » Nov 01 2017 01:42

SniperTau wrote:On playing against nids, my best advice would be stay away from genestealers. They can and in my experience have torn apart TANKS easily in cc. Also, try take out any flyers/shooty things ASAP to save your sunshark. mine was taken down first turn by a tyrannofex.

Sniper


Yeah and they are fast as f***. Well very unpredicty army also! And then when you open fire there is whining and crying that tau are broken :)! But there is almost o CC units ( i wait for codex with stingwings and kroots) and nothing to deny psyhic powers so you can smite us as you wish and whenever they desire! :-? And everythin

I played against tzeench darmons list few days ago and he had 11 smites :-? :-? :-? and everything which i tried to shot had +1 to bs so i was hitting on 5 and 6 mostly and he had invulsaves and feel no pains :P

User avatar
Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 228

Re: Going against the nids

Post#10 » Nov 01 2017 02:33

Wait, 70 genestealers??? That would mean he had a army that was 780 points genestealer. Adding in the other troops you described, that comes to 1683 points prior to upgrades. Are you sure you were playing matched?? Cause there's a big difference between 2003 points and 1683 points, even with tyranids. I have some experience playing nids, and there is no way that you could of killed a lictor in overwatch without some serious luck. At least not with 18 fire warriors armed solely with pulse rifles. Let's do some random tests using Battlscribe's dice tool:

1st test:

Step 1: 16 to hit dice at 5+ (we're not doing modifiers or rerolls, assuming that ethereals don't factor in)
- out of the 16 die, 4 roll hits

Step 2: wounding at 3+ (strength 5 against lictor toughness 4 gives 3+ to wound)
- Only 1 shot wounds

The lictor comes out with 3/4 of it's health intact

2nd test:

Step 1: 16 to hit die at 5+
- out of 16 die, 4 roll hits

Step 2: 4/16 die at 3+
- out of 4 die, 3 roll hits

the lictor survives: barely

Test 3:

Step 1: 16 to hit die at 4+
- out of the 16 die, 6 roll hits

Step 2: wounding at 3+ (strength 5 against lictor toughness 4 gives 3+ to wound)
- 4 shots kill the lictor dead

So only 1/3 of those scenarios killed the lictor. That wasn't accounting for saves either, or for any of the ethereal abilities. So, you must of been extremely lucky to do it in one round of overwatch, and before the lictor killed any of your troops once it got there after overwatch was resolved...
For the Tau'va ATT!!!

Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Going against the nids

Post#11 » Nov 01 2017 03:18

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:Wait, 70 genestealers??? That would mean he had a army that was 780 points genestealer. Adding in the other troops you described, that comes to 1683 points prior to upgrades. Are you sure you were playing matched?? Cause there's a big difference between 2003 points and 1683 points, even with tyranids. I have some experience playing nids, and there is no way that you could of killed a lictor in overwatch without some serious luck. At least not with 18 fire warriors armed solely with pulse rifles. Let's do some random tests using Battlscribe's dice tool:

1st test:

Step 1: 16 to hit dice at 5+ (we're not doing modifiers or rerolls, assuming that ethereals don't factor in)
- out of the 16 die, 4 roll hits

Step 2: wounding at 3+ (strength 5 against lictor toughness 4 gives 3+ to wound)
- Only 1 shot wounds

The lictor comes out with 3/4 of it's health intact

2nd test:

Step 1: 16 to hit die at 5+
- out of 16 die, 4 roll hits

Step 2: 4/16 die at 3+
- out of 4 die, 3 roll hits

the lictor survives: barely

Test 3:

Step 1: 16 to hit die at 4+
- out of the 16 die, 6 roll hits

Step 2: wounding at 3+ (strength 5 against lictor toughness 4 gives 3+ to wound)
- 4 shots kill the lictor dead

So only 1/3 of those scenarios killed the lictor. That wasn't accounting for saves either, or for any of the ethereal abilities. So, you must of been extremely lucky to do it in one round of overwatch, and before the lictor killed any of your troops once it got there after overwatch was resolved...


I think that i got it right and there was 2 units of genestealers 20 per unit and a unit of 30 with shooting instead of cc (maybe they are called different? They come with prime monster in deepstrike). Lictor fell on 9" away of my 21 firewarriors and 10 parhfinders with volley fire and i landed a mark on him with a marker drone! And of course he also failed charge! So i had to reroll one to hit and i roled really good! So i guess i had a lot of luck with lictor! But he went down! I think that this is first and last time that will ever happen! :-)

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1933

Re: Going against the nids

Post#12 » Nov 01 2017 04:15

Dekifelipe wrote:I think that i got it right and there was 2 units of genestealers 20 per unit and a unit of 30 with shooting instead of cc (maybe they are called different? They come with prime monster in deepstrike). Lictor fell on 9" away of my 21 firewarriors and 10 parhfinders with volley fire and i landed a mark on him with a marker drone! And of course he also failed charge! So i had to reroll one to hit and i roled really good! So i guess i had a lot of luck with lictor! But he went down! I think that this is first and last time that will ever happen! :-)

Sounds like a fun game. You mention shooting Genestealers though- were they Genestealer Cult infantry? Either way, that's a ton of infantry! And they will only get better with the new Codex... scary :fear:

Dekifelipe
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Going against the nids

Post#13 » Nov 01 2017 05:50

Arka0415 wrote:
Dekifelipe wrote:I think that i got it right and there was 2 units of genestealers 20 per unit and a unit of 30 with shooting instead of cc (maybe they are called different? They come with prime monster in deepstrike). Lictor fell on 9" away of my 21 firewarriors and 10 parhfinders with volley fire and i landed a mark on him with a marker drone! And of course he also failed charge! So i had to reroll one to hit and i roled really good! So i guess i had a lot of luck with lictor! But he went down! I think that this is first and last time that will ever happen! :-)

Sounds like a fun game. You mention shooting Genestealers though- were they Genestealer Cult infantry? Either way, that's a ton of infantry! And they will only get better with the new Codex... scary :fear:


I was mistaken a littlebit! :-) it was tervigon with 30 termagants and 40 ordinary genestealers! Termagants unleash 90 shots :-) which would be even more painfull if i wasnt in a cover save! All in all nids when they get their codex will be just pure cheeze :)! I kinda like them and they are a pick for my next army ( choosing between nids, ynnari and necrons)

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

Re: Going against the nids

Post#14 » Nov 06 2017 11:31

When i decided to play 40k and not just because my friends handed me a fist full of proxies and told me to Roll. I had tried dwarves in fantasy and did not have much an interest in the harsh i go you go or clear papper scissors that the skaven and orcs presented. One day i seen a picture in random white dwarf or something i picked up of tau gunlines in a jungle being bum rushed by nids, i was sold. :fear:

User avatar
Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 228

Re: Going against the nids

Post#15 » Nov 07 2017 12:12

AleksandrGRC wrote:When i decided to play 40k and not just because my friends handed me a fist full of proxies and told me to Roll. I had tried dwarves in fantasy and did not have much an interest in the harsh i go you go or clear papper scissors that the skaven and orcs presented. One day i seen a picture in random white dwarf or something i picked up of tau gunlines in a jungle being bum rushed by nids, i was sold. :fear:


That's great man, but shouldn't this sort of talk be classified as slightly off topic??? This is meant to be a tactica article, not a discussion about how scary a White Dwarf picture was. Anyway, I just had a game against one of my friends playing nids, and they are not nearly as scary as Eldar. My commander Crisis was obliterated by a war walker that infiltrated behind my enemy lines. Tyranids are great as a assault specialising faction, and they have reasonably point values, but they just don't have the ranged ability to match us or other shooty races such as Imperial Guard. They also don't offer that much customisation like we have. While they are a top-tier race compared to us in terms of competitivness, they've really lost a bit of their edge after the switch to 8th edition. I played A LOT of tyranid players back in 7th, and they were really, really scary with their assault capability. However, they had stupid stuff like the *shudder* Pyrovore, and their toughness was terrible. In fact, Tyranids still are one of the lowest toughness races. They can be minced by some of our weaker strength weapons, and they often have to resort to Zerg rush tactics to get there. They really only have two playstyles: Banzai Charge, or Heavy Infil. Their lictors are pretty damm scary.

I think that as 8e goes along, we're going to see a lot more people playing xenos rather than imperium. From what I've seen from my eldar-playing friend (who is rejoicing at his new codex), Xenos are going to be a big, big draw to both old and new players. The imperium armies have seen a lot of rebalancing and playstyle changes, while the xenos armies have seen quite a lot of stability in terms of post-rule-update chaos. I'd say that with the Tyranid codex coming out over christmas, the nids are going to get a lot more deadly. We still have to wait till mid 2018. I'm actually pissed about that, as we certainly are one of the more iconic factions, compared to the tyranids and various imperial armies (not naming anyone but *cough* Adeptus Soriatus/Deathwatch/Any Space Marines but Ultramarines/Adeptus Custodes)

Anyway, that's my side of it. Could we try and limit above off-topic stuff??? Especially with such a well developed discussion of a important topic.
For the Tau'va ATT!!!

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Going against the nids

Post#16 » Nov 07 2017 12:36

What? Tyranids used to be utter bottom tier in 7th. Even flyrant spam made them barely competetive. Compared to those times they are worlds better now. Even with just their Index.
I also don't see how they lack in customisation at all with what we know about the Codex.

User avatar
Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1933

Re: Going against the nids

Post#17 » Nov 07 2017 02:27

Tyranids have so much customization it's insane! They can field what, 3-6 different varieties of Carnifex alone? Amazing tools available to that army now. Plus, lots of new defensive measures (extra cover saves, ignoring wounds, so many invulnerable saves) means they can get those swarms across the board in better shape than ever.

While Tyranids are one of the armies I'm most dreading to face in 8th Edition, I'm hoping that their new codex is proof that a lot of fun and powerful customizations are headed our way.

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

Re: Going against the nids

Post#18 » Nov 07 2017 02:46

Um. Just responding to another tau player that might want nids as a second army because i relate to deki.. Sorry my small paragraph ruined your emersion into this thread.

Return to “Tau Tactics”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest