Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Raikoh067
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Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#1 » Nov 14 2017 04:55

https://www.forgeworld.co.uk/resources/PDF/Downloads/Tiger%20Shark%20AX-1-0.pdf

How would you field the AX-1-0? Being just over a quarter of a 2000 point list, is it worth it for a dedicated heavy unit killer? You would basically be killing one thing a turn with it, so unless those thing are very pricy, it wouldn't be worth the points cost, in my opinion. Would you only bring it if you knew you were up against super heavy? What would you bring to compliment it?

Lastly, what would your FLGS scene think of it if you brought it in for casual games? Keep in mind, it's NOT a super heavy and it doesn't have the Titanic keyword, it's just T8 W16.

EDIT: I need to clarify. This is NOT the Tiger Shark Fight Bomber. If the flyer you are thinking of has Swiftstrike rail guns, drones, or Skyspear missiles, then you've got it wrong. They are two different flyers based on the same chassis. Sort of like a Skyray vs Hammerhead, or sunshark vs razorshark.
Last edited by Raikoh067 on Nov 14 2017 07:40, edited 2 times in total.

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Haechi
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#2 » Nov 14 2017 06:57

When to field it :

Check your tournament rules.
Lords of War allowed check
Titanic allowed check
Forgeworld allowed check

Bring the AX-1-0. Make people cry.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#3 » Nov 14 2017 07:00

Raikoh067 wrote:How would you field the AX-1-0? Being just over a quarter of a 2000 point list, is it worth it for a dedicated heavy unit killer? You would basically be killing one thing a turn with it, so unless those thing are very pricy, it wouldn't be worth the points cost, in my opinion. Would you only bring it if you knew you were up against super heavy? What would you bring to compliment it?


Edit: This post is about the Tiger Shark Fighter-Bomber, not the Tiger Shark AX-1-0. Enjoy!

The Ion and Burst Cannon loadouts aren't going to kill many heavy units, so you need the absurdly over-costed Swiftstrike Railguns. If we shoot 4 Missile Pod shots, 2D3 Cyclic Ion Blaster shots, and 4 Swiftstrike Railgun shots at a Leman Russ, with three Markerlight hits, we should get the following results:

MP: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 1.3 wounds > 0.6 unsaved > 1.2 damage
CIB: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 1.9 wounds > 0.9 unsaved > 1.8 damage
SSR: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 1.9 wounds > 1.9 unsaved > 6.7 damage

Great, the 561-point model just dealt 9.7 wounds to, but didn't kill, a basic Imperial Guard tank! And we needed at least 48 points worth of Pathfinders supporting it too to get those 3 Markerlight hits, which it needs to prevent its ballistic skill from dropping as it moves...

It would be much better to shoot weak vehicles, such as Rhinos and Devilfish, but at that point don't we have better options? Also, at that point, the Barracuda may be better- it gets two fewer Swiftstrike Railgun shots, but the same CIBs and the same Missile Pods.

Now, if you configure it with the dual Heavy Burst Cannons and bonus missile racks, we get the following shooting. Let's attack a squad of Conscripts or something like that.

MP: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 3.2 wounds > 2.7 unsaved > 2.7 samage
CIB: 6 shots > 5.8 hits > 4.9 wounds > 4.1 unsaved > 4.1 damage
HBC: 12 shots > 11.7 hits > 9.7 wounds > 8.1 unsaved > 8.1 damage
SMR: 7 shots > 6.8 hits > 5.7 wounds > 5.7 unsaved > 5.7 damage

So, in total we're looking at about 20.6 wounds, or 20.6 dead Conscripts.

This loadout is cheaper, at 469 points, but you're spending a lot of points to hack down weak units. Is this efficient, or ideal? Honestly, who knows. I haven't tried it out on the table. But the numbers don't look super promising.
Last edited by Arka0415 on Nov 14 2017 07:42, edited 2 times in total.

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K'Pokk
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#4 » Nov 14 2017 07:12

Played this monday vs. a combined Guard (6 or 7 tanks) and Nurgle combo. I was allied with an eldar player. We had 1,000pts per player. I spent 583 on the Tigershark as I didn't bother taking seekers. 2 burst cannon, 2 missilepods as secondary weapons.

By the end of the battle the Tigershark was down to it's last 5 hits and had destroyed 2 Russ's and a Chimera. Another Russ had lost about half it's hits.
Last edited by K'Pokk on Nov 14 2017 07:13, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#5 » Nov 14 2017 07:13

K'Pokk wrote:Played this monday vs. a combined Guard (6 or 7 tanks) and Nurgle combo. I was allied with an eldar player. We had 1,000pts per player. I spent 583 on the Tigershark as I didn't bother taking seekers.

By the end of the battle the Tigershark was down to it's last 5 hits and had destroyed 2 Russ's and a Chimera. Another Russ had lost about half it's hits.

What was your loadout?

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K'Pokk
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#6 » Nov 14 2017 07:18

Arka0415 wrote:
K'Pokk wrote:Played this monday vs. a combined Guard (6 or 7 tanks) and Nurgle combo. I was allied with an eldar player. We had 1,000pts per player. I spent 583 on the Tigershark as I didn't bother taking seekers.

By the end of the battle the Tigershark was down to it's last 5 hits and had destroyed 2 Russ's and a Chimera. Another Russ had lost about half it's hits.

What was your loadout?



2 heavy railcannon and 2 burst cannon, 2 missilepods as secondary weapons.

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Raikoh067
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#7 » Nov 14 2017 07:31

Haechi wrote:When to field it :

Check your tournament rules.
Lords of War allowed check
Titanic allowed check
Forgeworld allowed check

Bring the AX-1-0. Make people cry.


It is not a lord of war.
It is not Titanic.
It is Forgeworld. However I've never seen a place that doesn't allow forgeworld.

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Raikoh067
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#8 » Nov 14 2017 07:34

Arka0415 wrote:
Raikoh067 wrote:How would you field the AX-1-0? Being just over a quarter of a 2000 point list, is it worth it for a dedicated heavy unit killer? You would basically be killing one thing a turn with it, so unless those thing are very pricy, it wouldn't be worth the points cost, in my opinion. Would you only bring it if you knew you were up against super heavy? What would you bring to compliment it?

The Ion and Burst Cannon loadouts aren't going to kill many heavy units, so you need the absurdly over-costed Swiftstrike Railguns. If we shoot 4 Missile Pod shots, 2D3 Cyclic Ion Blaster shots, and 4 Swiftstrike Railgun shots at a Leman Russ, with three Markerlight hits, we should get the following results:

MP: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 1.3 wounds > 0.6 unsaved > 1.2 damage
CIB: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 1.9 wounds > 0.9 unsaved > 1.8 damage
SSR: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 1.9 wounds > 1.9 unsaved > 6.7 damage

Great, the 561-point model just dealt 9.7 wounds to, but didn't kill, a basic Imperial Guard tank! And we needed at least 48 points worth of Pathfinders supporting it too to get those 3 Markerlight hits, which it needs to prevent its ballistic skill from dropping as it moves...

It would be much better to shoot weak vehicles, such as Rhinos and Devilfish, but at that point don't we have better options? Also, at that point, the Barracuda may be better- it gets two fewer Swiftstrike Railgun shots, but the same CIBs and the same Missile Pods.

Now, if you configure it with the dual Heavy Burst Cannons and bonus missile racks, we get the following shooting. Let's attack a squad of Conscripts or something like that.

MP: 4 shots > 3.9 hits > 3.2 wounds > 2.7 unsaved > 2.7 samage
CIB: 6 shots > 5.8 hits > 4.9 wounds > 4.1 unsaved > 4.1 damage
HBC: 12 shots > 11.7 hits > 9.7 wounds > 8.1 unsaved > 8.1 damage
SMR: 7 shots > 6.8 hits > 5.7 wounds > 5.7 unsaved > 5.7 damage

So, in total we're looking at about 20.6 wounds, or 20.6 dead Conscripts.

This loadout is cheaper, at 469 points, but you're spending a lot of points to hack down weak units. Is this efficient, or ideal? Honestly, who knows. I haven't tried it out on the table. But the numbers don't look super promising.


Ok, so it is clear you are confusing the two different Tiger Sharks. The Fighter Bomber is what you are talking about, and it has a different weapon loadout, and costs over a hundred points less. The AX-1-0 does not have weapon loadout options at all, and comes with two S18 Ap-5 D2d6 gubs., The heavy rail cannons. The same one that the Taunar can take.
Last edited by Raikoh067 on Nov 14 2017 07:41, edited 1 time in total.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#9 » Nov 14 2017 07:41

Raikoh067 wrote:Ok, so it is clear you are confusing the two different Tiger Sharks. The Fight Bomber is what you are talking about, and it has a different weapon load t, and costs over a hundred points less. The AX-1-0 does not have weapon loadout options at all, and comes with two S18 Ap-5 D2d6 gubs., The heavy rail cannons. The same one that the Taunar can take.


Aww, someone made a thread about the older Tiger Shark right when the rules for the newer Tiger Shark's rules came out? How confusing :D

Well, there's some mathhammer for you if anyone's interested in the fighter-bomber!

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Raikoh067
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#10 » Nov 14 2017 07:47

Arka0415 wrote:
Raikoh067 wrote:Ok, so it is clear you are confusing the two different Tiger Sharks. The Fight Bomber is what you are talking about, and it has a different weapon load t, and costs over a hundred points less. The AX-1-0 does not have weapon loadout options at all, and comes with two S18 Ap-5 D2d6 gubs., The heavy rail cannons. The same one that the Taunar can take.


Aww, someone made a thread about the older Tiger Shark right when the rules for the newer Tiger Shark's rules came out? How confusing :D

Well, there's some mathhammer for you if anyone's interested in the fighter-bomber!


I suppose the release of the new model got me looking at both. The Fighter Bomber is decidedly worse in my opinion, even with it's best loadout of railguns and missile rack. It's also only 68 points less than the AX-1-0 at that point.


My opinion on the AX-1-0 is that if you're bringing it, you need to bring some good anti infantry to compliment it. Something like the twin heavy burst cannon hammerhead, lots of drones, or some dbbc XV9's.

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Arka0415
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#11 » Nov 14 2017 08:09

Raikoh067 wrote:I suppose the release of the new model got me looking at both. The Fighter Bomber is decidedly worse in my opinion, even with it's best loadout of railguns and missile rack. It's also only 68 points less than the AX-1-0 at that point.


My opinion on the AX-1-0 is that if you're bringing it, you need to bring some good anti infantry to compliment it. Something like the twin heavy burst cannon hammerhead, lots of drones, or some dbbc XV9's.

I agree that the AX-1-0 is far better; however, the Heavy Railgun is so absurdly over-costed that it needs to shoot at a Titanic target just to stay points-efficient... if the AX-1-0 could exchange its 260 points of Heavy Railguns for 10-11 Lascannons, I'd do that in an instant. If you're bringing a 600+ point model, it should be absurdly good.

However, it does pack plenty of other fun weapons, like the CIBs, Missile Pods, and Seeker Missiles. It's not a bad unit, but I've said this elsewhere- I'd much rather take half of it than pay 629 points for all that.

Edit: 629 is the correct points value for a Tiger Shark AX-1-0.
Last edited by Arka0415 on Nov 14 2017 08:57, edited 1 time in total.

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Panzer
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#12 » Nov 14 2017 08:19

I would only take it if.I would expect LoW or other expensive single models on the other side (landraider, stormraven, etc).
It would replace at least one QFC in my list so that's where I would look to add more anti-infantry in form of Gun Drones or CIB Commander.

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Raikoh067
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#13 » Nov 14 2017 08:28

Arka0415 wrote:I'd much rather take half of it than pay 619 points for all that.


With missile mods, burst cannons and the rail cannons, it's 583. Not sure where you got the 619 cost. Also, lascannons are some of the most efficient tank hunting weapons in the entire game. I would trade a lot to have them on my Tau army in general, let alone as a replacement to the AX-1-0, lol

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Arka0415
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#14 » Nov 14 2017 08:56

Raikoh067 wrote:With missile mods, burst cannons and the rail cannons, it's 583. Not sure where you got the 619 cost.

The main hull plus the two Heavy Railguns is 515. Then there's the required Missile Pods which brings you to 563. Adding the Cyclic Ion Blasters is only 16 points more than the stock two Burst Cannons and are many times more powerful. So let's add Cyclic Ion Blasters and the final cost is 599.

Now, Seeker Missiles are a fantastic option too- we know how powerful a BS2+ Seeker Missile is, and getting six of those is great. That brings us to our final cost, 629.

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Emberkahn
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#15 » Nov 14 2017 09:11

Tiger-shark Fighterbomber (HBC variant with skyspear missile racks) is an absolute monster and easaily one of, if not the best unit in our codex.

The clincher is T8. Pushes it from being tough to almost indestructible. It was so strong that it led my local gaming group to ban flyers.

The AX-1-0 is good, but dependent on the opponent bringing Titanic stuff. If they do I think a supremacy is better at this job point for point. But still a solid model. No-where near as strong as the fighter bomber though.

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Haechi
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Re: Tiger Shark AX-1-0 Discussion

Post#16 » Nov 15 2017 03:40

Raikoh067 wrote:
Haechi wrote:When to field it :

Check your tournament rules.
Lords of War allowed check
Titanic allowed check
Forgeworld allowed check

Bring the AX-1-0. Make people cry.


It is not a lord of war.
It is not Titanic.
It is Forgeworld. However I've never seen a place that doesn't allow forgeworld.


I meant if those are allowed, then bring the AX to destroy those.

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