The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Pottsey
Shas'Saal
Posts: 47

Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#19 » Nov 19 2017 02:35

Panzer wrote:
Pottsey wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:


Against MEQs, we're looking at 32 hits with no ATS or 21 hits with ATS.

W/ ATS: 21 hits > 10.5 wounds > 5.25 kills
W/o ATS: 32 hits > 16 wounds > 5.33 kills

3x Flamers is fractionally stronger, but also more reliable, has a higher maximum damage, and only costs 3pts/model more than 2x Flamers + ATS. Plus, having the extra Flamers is far stronger against hordes of things with Sv5+ and Sv4+.

What about if you factor in them ending up in close combat and having -1AP? What about when its bodyguards with an extra 1A and reroll 1's in CC?

Basically no difference. If you can't hit things it doesn't matter how well you would penetrate their armor. ^^

With 9A and rerolling's 1's I would expect to get a few good hits in. Although it would most likely be better with Farsight and a x3 flamer ATS Commander over 3 bodyguard suits.

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GND
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 127

Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#20 » Nov 19 2017 03:36

Well, lets do the math, it's really not difficult in this case.

Bodyguards with ATS => 9 * 0.33 * 0.66 * 0.5 = 1 unsaved wound against MEQ.
Crisis suits w/o ATS => 7 * 0.33 * 0.66 * 0.33 = 0.5 unsaved wound against MEQ.

I'm not going to bother factoring in re-rolling ones (which I guess comes from Farsight?) as that just doesn't do much with low numbers like this.

So yeah, you double their effectiveness! From a 50% chance to kill a marine to one dead marine on average...
And you lose the benefit of ATS costing less than a Flamer since now your paying extra points for 2 additional CQC attacks.

Yeah no, not worth it. You only charge things to prevent them for shooting or to protect yourself from shooting in the rare case of being able to encircle an enemy completely, preventing it from falling back. Spend the few extra points or a drone or something. Besides, drones are better bodyguards than Bodyguards :)

EDIT: Grammar

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Haechi
Shas'Saal
Posts: 148

Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#21 » Nov 20 2017 05:23

Finally got to try the 3 Crisis full Flamer combo this weekend at a tournament... and didn't really get to actually try them.

First game my only available target was Reapers in cover. I managed to do 4 wounds.

Second game, Ynnari again, I set up my Crisis with the beacon all around a Serpent, ready to burn everything that comes out of it. I blow it up, it triggers a Soulburst, which I was fine with considering what was around, 10 basic Guardians shoot their Shuriken catapults at me, killing all 3. Okay. Nice. Love this game.

Third game, third Ynnari, 500km trip to play this joke army three time got me seriously angry. Still, just like before I set up my Crisis around a juicy Serpent. 16 Fusion Blaster shots later, 12 of which were at mid range, the serpent is Still standing. I only had the Crisis left to finish it. They did destroy it, and I surrendered. Worst tournament of my life.

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Shas'O Ora
Shas'Saal
Posts: 34

Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#22 » Nov 20 2017 06:05

Second game, Ynnari again, I set up my Crisis with the beacon all around a Serpent, ready to burn everything that comes out of it. I blow it up, it triggers a Soulburst, which I was fine with considering what was around, 10 basic Guardians shoot their Shuriken catapults at me, killing all 3. Okay. Nice. Love this game.


Were your suits protected by Gun- or Shielddrones?

Anyway you had more bad luck than one fighter for the Greater Good deserves.


Does anyone have experience with the All-Flamer-Suits against (Primaris) Space Marines/Grey Knights?
I know they aren´t really the typ of army flamers are made for and I don´t know their toughness but I expect at least their standart units could be valuable targets for flamers.

Your opinion and experience is welcomed. :fear:

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JancoBCN
Shas'Saal
Posts: 25

Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#23 » Nov 20 2017 08:50

Finally got to try the 3 Crisis full Flamer combo this weekend at a tournament... and didn't really get to actually try them.

First game my only available target was Reapers in cover. I managed to do 4 wounds.

Second game, Ynnari again, I set up my Crisis with the beacon all around a Serpent, ready to burn everything that comes out of it. I blow it up, it triggers a Soulburst, which I was fine with considering what was around, 10 basic Guardians shoot their Shuriken catapults at me, killing all 3. Okay. Nice. Love this game.

Third game, third Ynnari, 500km trip to play this joke army three time got me seriously angry. Still, just like before I set up my Crisis around a juicy Serpent. 16 Fusion Blaster shots later, 12 of which were at mid range, the serpent is Still standing. I only had the Crisis left to finish it. They did destroy it, and I surrendered. Worst tournament of my life.


Wow, Haechi, that sounds awfull. Having to travel and spend hours to play like this has to be the worst... I hope it goes better next time! Also, the Ynnari race got nerfed 2 days ago with the restrictions of the Soulburst actions... I think it was a bit too much power.


Does anyone have experience with the All-Flamer-Suits against (Primaris) Space Marines/Grey Knights?
I know they aren´t really the typ of army flamers are made for and I don´t know their toughness but I expect at least their standart units could be valuable targets for flamers.


Shas'O Ora, in my little experience vs MEQ ( I have played 30 games in 8th, but 25 of them vs Astra Militarum pre-Codex, 2 vs Tyranids and 3 vs MEQ), I have to say that the All-Flamer-Suits (I use 3 suits with 8Flamer and DC, with 6 Gun drones, and with homing beacon) can easily pick up 10-man tactic squads that are not in cover (killing 7-8 of them), but they will not be efficient at it, and if they are in cover, you will not do any wound to them. If you face 2-wound MEQ instead... I would not expect to do anything there.

I have found that MEQ are a weak spot for my anti-infantry depmt, because our AP0 weapons are 100% useless vs MEQ in cover, and not that good vs Sv3+ either. And actually, it would be a critical disadvantage of our T'au vs them, but luckily, I have found the Marines (I have played vs Black templars, Wolves and Vanilla/Blood Angels) to be one of the weakest factions in the 8th edition, and also very weak to my 2 Y'vahras, who love to burn as many multi-wound models as possible.

If I knew I will face a MEQ army, I would never put Flamer teams in my list, only if I had to make it an all-comers one.

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leo1925
Shas
Posts: 83

Re: The All-Flamer XV8: Tactics Discussion

Post#24 » Nov 20 2017 09:12

JancoBCN wrote:Also, the Ynnari race got nerfed 2 days ago with the restrictions of the Soulburst actions... I think it was a bit too much power.


Yes they changed it, in matched play only one soulburst action (per kind) can be activated during the controlling player's turn and no soulburst action during the opponent's turn.

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