Spin the Bottle

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Callumibob
Shas
Posts: 22

Spin the Bottle

Post#1 » Nov 16 2017 03:09

Evening all,

first time post here! so im fairly new to 40k, im in a group of people who started collecting at the start of 8th. 2 players who have experience with other tabletop mini games and 3 absolute noobs (myself included). so far ive played 3 games and won 1.

this weekend 4 of us are meeting up an playing a few 500pt games. here's the problem, we are going 1 on 1 against another player but its the roll of the dice what we're up against. i could be facing either tyranids (all teath and claws no guns) necrons (mostly warriors and a cryptek) or space wolves.

basically im looking for an all round list that can deal with any of these threats with minimal tweaking. i know im probably opening can of worms here. at my disposal i have:

1 get started kit with fire warriors built as strike teams
1 optimized pathfinder team with 3 magnetized models for special weapons
1 cadre fireblade.

any tips and tricks would be really appreciated.

for the greater good!

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#2 » Nov 16 2017 03:37

Okay first things first....don't expect to have an answer to everything in such low point games. You can try to build an allrounder list but there will be situations where you simply can't do much about it.
Imo in low point games it's better to build towards ones own strength instead of trying to be prepared for everything.

Things I deem strong in low point games without any additional support (only talking about things you've available):
- full Flamer Crisis with Shield Drones even if you can't drop within flamer range turn one. They are just incredibly durable and together with the advance move pretty fast (average movement of 11.5" per turn + 8" of the flamer = 19.5" threat range)
- Pathfinder with Rail Rifles
- Gun Drones (as always lol)

Unfortunately the Crisis unit is quite expensive
So with the models available to you I'd take something like this:

++ Patrol Detachment (T'au Empire) [29 PL, 500pts] ++

+ HQ +
Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 50pts]: Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone

+ Troops +
Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 252pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV4 Shield Drone
Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer

+ Fast Attack +
Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 59pts]
3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 59pts]
3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I usually don't take mixed Drones on the Crisis unit but low point games with limited models available are different.
If I recall correctly you can't build 6 of the same Drones with the SC box and since you have a Fireblade the Gun Drones will get a nice buff if you decide to use the Crisis defensively against a fast approaching army instead of dropping them close and being aggressive with them yourself.
Normally I'd also take 3 Rail Rifles on each Pathfinder squad but you can build only 3 with one box and there aren't enough points to include more. This way your enemy can't get rid of both of the Rifles by just shooting at one unit either which is always a plus.

The only problem you'd have here is if one of your opponents would bring tanks. Normally a Commander with CIBs or Fusion Blaster would be nice to have here but you don't have one and it would be impossible to fit him in together with the Crisis Suits.
If you find you have problems against lists with tanks you might want to give the Crisis some Fusion Blaster (2xFB+1xFlamer per Suit is not a bad loadout either).
Keep in mind that you don't necessarily have to kill everything from your opponent to win games so it might be fine this way. ;)

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Callumibob
Shas
Posts: 22

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#3 » Nov 16 2017 03:53

Awesome list! I’ll definitely be giving this a go this weekend. Nice idea with putting a rail riffle in each team. Out of interest would you put any merit in putting a few marker drones with the suits? I worry about dropping them fairly far from pathfinders and being without markerlight support. All thought with flamers I guess I don’t really need them.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#4 » Nov 16 2017 04:03

I honestly don't rate Marker Drones very highly. The only case where I'd use Marker Drones would be to prevent all my Markerlight sources get wiped first turn by an enemy by letting the Drones drop in with Crisis and a Drone Controller. But that shouldn't be a problem at 500p.

Markerlights have a 36" range. You should rarely be out of range. ;)
For 500p games it's also not a bad idea to play on a 4'x4' board instead of the usual big board.

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Callumibob
Shas
Posts: 22

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#5 » Nov 16 2017 04:08

Good point, cheers. I’ve got a 6x4 table that splits in half so there will be 2games happening simultaneously on the 2 halves. I’ll post a short bat rep with the outcome :D

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Yojimbob
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Posts: 442

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#6 » Nov 17 2017 10:12

Callumibob wrote:Good point, cheers. I’ve got a 6x4 table that splits in half so there will be 2games happening simultaneously on the 2 halves. I’ll post a short bat rep with the outcome :D


3x2 will be VERY small. Keep in mind your pathfinders will want to be at max range BUT if you have rail rifles, you may want to be within 15 for the sweet rapid fire. It may be best in that case to have both rails in one squad and that one be a "forward" pushing unit. Just food for thought. Play it whichever way you want but keep it in mind when you're using the rail from so far away.

I'd rather see the 2x fusion 1x flamer or 3xcib loadouts on these suits but that's much much more expensive. Ethereal on a drone may be an interesting combo with the flamer suits to give sense of stone to the drones and the suits making them a durable force to deal with. Could be fun.

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#7 » Nov 17 2017 10:22

Yojimbob wrote:
Callumibob wrote:Good point, cheers. I’ve got a 6x4 table that splits in half so there will be 2games happening simultaneously on the 2 halves. I’ll post a short bat rep with the outcome :D


3x2 will be VERY small. Keep in mind your pathfinders will want to be at max range BUT if you have rail rifles, you may want to be within 15 for the sweet rapid fire. It may be best in that case to have both rails in one squad and that one be a "forward" pushing unit. Just food for thought. Play it whichever way you want but keep it in mind when you're using the rail from so far away.

I'd rather see the 2x fusion 1x flamer or 3xcib loadouts on these suits but that's much much more expensive. Ethereal on a drone may be an interesting combo with the flamer suits to give sense of stone to the drones and the suits making them a durable force to deal with. Could be fun.

You don't half both numbers when you half a surface. :D :D :D
It'll be 3x4. ;)

And Drones can't get Sense of Stone since the Ethereal auras only affect Infantry and Battlesuits.
Last edited by Panzer on Nov 17 2017 10:22, edited 1 time in total.

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Yojimbob
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Posts: 442

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#8 » Nov 17 2017 10:35

Panzer wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Callumibob wrote:Good point, cheers. I’ve got a 6x4 table that splits in half so there will be 2games happening simultaneously on the 2 halves. I’ll post a short bat rep with the outcome :D


3x2 will be VERY small. Keep in mind your pathfinders will want to be at max range BUT if you have rail rifles, you may want to be within 15 for the sweet rapid fire. It may be best in that case to have both rails in one squad and that one be a "forward" pushing unit. Just food for thought. Play it whichever way you want but keep it in mind when you're using the rail from so far away.

I'd rather see the 2x fusion 1x flamer or 3xcib loadouts on these suits but that's much much more expensive. Ethereal on a drone may be an interesting combo with the flamer suits to give sense of stone to the drones and the suits making them a durable force to deal with. Could be fun.

You don't half both numbers when you half a surface. :D :D :D
It'll be 3x4. ;)

And Drones can't get Sense of Stone since the Ethereal auras only affect Infantry and Battlesuits.


Haha, I totally went quarters. WOOOO My brain is firing fully this morning! I always forget the ethereal buffs don't land on drones. What a waste. I hope to see that change in the future. Ethereals are better than they were but still so much menh.

Nymphomanius
Shas'Saal
Posts: 374
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Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#9 » Nov 17 2017 01:00

Yojimbob wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
3x2 will be VERY small. Keep in mind your pathfinders will want to be at max range BUT if you have rail rifles, you may want to be within 15 for the sweet rapid fire. It may be best in that case to have both rails in one squad and that one be a "forward" pushing unit. Just food for thought. Play it whichever way you want but keep it in mind when you're using the rail from so far away.

I'd rather see the 2x fusion 1x flamer or 3xcib loadouts on these suits but that's much much more expensive. Ethereal on a drone may be an interesting combo with the flamer suits to give sense of stone to the drones and the suits making them a durable force to deal with. Could be fun.

You don't half both numbers when you half a surface. :D :D :D
It'll be 3x4. ;)

And Drones can't get Sense of Stone since the Ethereal auras only affect Infantry and Battlesuits.


Haha, I totally went quarters. WOOOO My brain is firing fully this morning! I always forget the ethereal buffs don't land on drones. What a waste. I hope to see that change in the future. Ethereals are better than they were but still so much menh.


Every invocation ability was better last edition, used to give firewarriors an additional shot instead of reroll 1's would be awesome now

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Callumibob
Shas
Posts: 22

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#10 » Nov 17 2017 01:47

Panzer wrote:Okay first things first....don't expect to have an answer to everything in such low point games. You can try to build an allrounder list but there will be situations where you simply can't do much about it.
Imo in low point games it's better to build towards ones own strength instead of trying to be prepared for everything.

Things I deem strong in low point games without any additional support (only talking about things you've available):
- full Flamer Crisis with Shield Drones even if you can't drop within flamer range turn one. They are just incredibly durable and together with the advance move pretty fast (average movement of 11.5" per turn + 8" of the flamer = 19.5" threat range)
- Pathfinder with Rail Rifles
- Gun Drones (as always lol)

Unfortunately the Crisis unit is quite expensive
So with the models available to you I'd take something like this:

++ Patrol Detachment (T'au Empire) [29 PL, 500pts] ++

+ HQ +
Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 50pts]: Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone

+ Troops +
Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 252pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV4 Shield Drone
Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer

+ Fast Attack +
Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 59pts]
3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 59pts]
3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I usually don't take mixed Drones on the Crisis unit but low point games with limited models available are different.
If I recall correctly you can't build 6 of the same Drones with the SC box and since you have a Fireblade the Gun Drones will get a nice buff if you decide to use the Crisis defensively against a fast approaching army instead of dropping them close and being aggressive with them yourself.
Normally I'd also take 3 Rail Rifles on each Pathfinder squad but you can build only 3 with one box and there aren't enough points to include more. This way your enemy can't get rid of both of the Rifles by just shooting at one unit either which is always a plus.

The only problem you'd have here is if one of your opponents would bring tanks. Normally a Commander with CIBs or Fusion Blaster would be nice to have here but you don't have one and it would be impossible to fit him in together with the Crisis Suits.
If you find you have problems against lists with tanks you might want to give the Crisis some Fusion Blaster (2xFB+1xFlamer per Suit is not a bad loadout either).
Keep in mind that you don't necessarily have to kill everything from your opponent to win games so it might be fine this way. ;)
so the new Ron player has dropped out last minute, instead we are doing 3 player free for all against nids and wolves at 750 points, any suggestions?

User avatar
Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#11 » Nov 17 2017 04:13

Callumibob wrote:
Panzer wrote:Okay first things first....don't expect to have an answer to everything in such low point games. You can try to build an allrounder list but there will be situations where you simply can't do much about it.
Imo in low point games it's better to build towards ones own strength instead of trying to be prepared for everything.

Things I deem strong in low point games without any additional support (only talking about things you've available):
- full Flamer Crisis with Shield Drones even if you can't drop within flamer range turn one. They are just incredibly durable and together with the advance move pretty fast (average movement of 11.5" per turn + 8" of the flamer = 19.5" threat range)
- Pathfinder with Rail Rifles
- Gun Drones (as always lol)

Unfortunately the Crisis unit is quite expensive
So with the models available to you I'd take something like this:

++ Patrol Detachment (T'au Empire) [29 PL, 500pts] ++

+ HQ +
Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 50pts]: Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone

+ Troops +
Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse pistol, Pulse rifle
4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 252pts]: 3x MV1 Gun Drone, 3x MV4 Shield Drone
Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer

+ Fast Attack +
Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 59pts]
3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [3 PL, 59pts]
3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I usually don't take mixed Drones on the Crisis unit but low point games with limited models available are different.
If I recall correctly you can't build 6 of the same Drones with the SC box and since you have a Fireblade the Gun Drones will get a nice buff if you decide to use the Crisis defensively against a fast approaching army instead of dropping them close and being aggressive with them yourself.
Normally I'd also take 3 Rail Rifles on each Pathfinder squad but you can build only 3 with one box and there aren't enough points to include more. This way your enemy can't get rid of both of the Rifles by just shooting at one unit either which is always a plus.

The only problem you'd have here is if one of your opponents would bring tanks. Normally a Commander with CIBs or Fusion Blaster would be nice to have here but you don't have one and it would be impossible to fit him in together with the Crisis Suits.
If you find you have problems against lists with tanks you might want to give the Crisis some Fusion Blaster (2xFB+1xFlamer per Suit is not a bad loadout either).
Keep in mind that you don't necessarily have to kill everything from your opponent to win games so it might be fine this way. ;)
so the new Ron player has dropped out last minute, instead we are doing 3 player free for all against nids and wolves at 750 points, any suggestions?

I assume you don't have a Commander available?
Increasing the amount of special weapons in the Pathfinder teams (both Rail Rifles and Ion Rifles are good against infantry...just differently), putting them in a Devilfish to help them against Alpha Strikes and giving Crisis a more expensive loadout (2xCIB+ATS or 2xFB+1xFlamer for example) would be good ways to spend more points.

I didn't click a list together this time but I think you could be missing some models to build a proper 750p list. Not 100% sure though.

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Callumibob
Shas
Posts: 22

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#12 » Nov 17 2017 04:53

No commander yet, here’s what I’ve put together, basically everything I own


++ Unbound Army (Faction) (T'au Empire) [41 PL, 748pts] ++

+ HQ +

Cadre Fireblade [3 PL, 50pts]: Markerlight, MV1 Gun Drone

Ethereal [3 PL, 50pts]: Honour blade, Hover Drone

+ Troops +

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

Strike Team [3 PL, 40pts]
. Fire Warrior Shas'ui: Pulse rifle
. 4x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

+ Elites +

XV8 Crisis Battlesuits [14 PL, 252pts]: 6x MV1 Gun Drone
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
. Crisis Shas'ui: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer
. Crisis Shas'vre: Advanced targeting system, 2x Flamer

+ Fast Attack +

Pathfinder Team [4 PL, 94pts]: MV31 Pulse Accelerator Drone, MV33 Grav-inhibitor Drone
. 2x Pathfinder: 2x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
. 2x Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: 2x Rail rifle

Pathfinder Team [4 PL, 71pts]: MB3 Recon Drone
. 3x Pathfinder: 3x Markerlight
. Pathfinder Shas'ui: Markerlight
. Pathfinder w/ Rail Rifle: Rail rifle

+ Dedicated Transport +

TY7 Devilfish [7 PL, 151pts]: 2x Smart missile system, Burst cannon

++ Total: [41 PL, 748pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

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StealthKnightSteg
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Posts: 196
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Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#13 » Nov 18 2017 05:06

if you use the devilfish with the cadre fireblade use the gun drones on the fish as they will benefit the volleyfire rule also

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2201

Re: Spin the Bottle

Post#14 » Nov 20 2017 07:37

If that's everything you own, then go for it! It won't be too competitive (your lack of any form of anti-tank is definitely a problem) but that's what small games are for, right? Anyway, I agree with StealthKnightSteg that you should drop the Devilfish SMS (-40) and replace them with Gun Drones (+16), and with those extra points feel free to give one of your Fire Warrior squads a Support Turret (+20). Looking at your models, I assume you have one of those?

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