How to deal with Nids?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Co0n
Shas'Saal
Posts: 46

How to deal with Nids?

Post#1 » Nov 26 2017 11:36

hey there!

I never thought I would say this, but I am having problems with Nids :x

I usually field 1 Fusion Commander 3 Fusion crisis, 3 Cib crisis and some stealth suits + ghostkeel.
The rest is Strike Teams and Drones.

Would a Stormsurge help?
What can I do against all that alpha strike?

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Ifrit
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 161

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#2 » Nov 26 2017 11:54

What kind of Nids are you facing? It might help if you have us a rough idea as to what models/characters they are using and potential points. Also are the models you listed all the models you own?

Co0n
Shas'Saal
Posts: 46

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#3 » Nov 26 2017 02:48

2K Points.

There were always 1 Exocrine, 3 Zoanthropes and 2 Trygons + Gaunts. Hey played several different hive fleets to try the new dex.

Sometimes in addition to the above there were 3 Flyrants, sometimes a Swarmlors, some Venomthropes / Malanthrope.
most of the time he litterally bombed my zone with units, so many I could'nt deal with all of them in 1 round.

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Ifrit
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 161

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#4 » Nov 26 2017 03:11

So mostly an “elite” army? Not a “horde”?
I’d say load up on Fusion, some Flamer Crisis for Overwatch, Breachers (since he’s pretty much coming to you) or cheap Kroot to bubble wrap/act as speed bumps. Maybe a SS they are very situational and in kind of a weird spot right now as is most of our units (since we don’t have a Codex). Possibly some Pathfinders for the ML/heavy weapons they get.

Honestly I haven’t played against Tyranids this edition yet so.... that’s about all the advice I have :/

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nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 806

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#5 » Nov 26 2017 03:52

Ifrit wrote:
Honestly I haven’t played against Tyranids this edition yet so.... that’s about all the advice I have :/


I have. Gun drones. Lots and lots of gun drones with a few shield drones mixed in for durability. Tyranids rarely have better than a 3+ save and usually have much worse. if they want to rush into close quarters then bring our best unit for close quarters fighting, which fortunately also has the best overwatch at over 8" range. Sadly Flamers will be useless vs the initial onslaught.

Disposable screens of Kroot and/or Kroot Hounds are worth considering but the core of your defence are the 2nd screening line of massed gun drones.

When they bomb you with units you hit them with maximum overwatch and then watch your front screening layer die horribly. Now declare Kauyon, apply Cadre Fireblade and a Drone Controller from somewhere to your remaining drones and watch the Nids player's face. Seriously. Oh - and buy more dice because you will be wanting them.

Then bring enough Commanders/whatever to drop out of a Manta and clear the firebase from the opposing backfield. It is unlikely that the shooty bugs in the backfield will have an invulnerable save so massed Fusion Blasters will be devastating against them.

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Emberkahn
Shas'Saal
Posts: 113

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#6 » Nov 29 2017 09:47

In all honesty, nids are really our ideal opponent I feel in this edition, because they are countered by our good units, on top of the fact our good units are good.

So every list is going to look something like:

QFC (1-4)
Coldstar (Warlord to fly around grabbing objectives and killing his screening units)
Cadre Fireblade

DC Caddy

Gun Drones

AleksandrGRC
Shas'Saal
Posts: 74

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#7 » Nov 29 2017 11:15

Last time i did 75 pt game vs nids
I dropped a bunch of mostly fusion crisis with drones in front of his lines with shadowsun and stealths also with fusion.
He didnt let me finish rolling my first turn and quit.
Totally that guyed him
Hes still mad about dropping 1” away. Not that it even matters with 18” weapons. I didnt really need the fusion Rerolls.

Upsets him i guess when hes the one supposed to cross the board first turn. :smile:

Kerrygan
Shas
Posts: 31

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#8 » Nov 30 2017 07:24

AleksandrGRC wrote:Last time i did 75 pt game vs nids
I dropped a bunch of mostly fusion crisis with drones in front of his lines with shadowsun and stealths also with fusion.
He didnt let me finish rolling my first turn and quit.
Totally that guyed him
Hes still mad about dropping 1” away. Not that it even matters with 18” weapons. I didnt really need the fusion Rerolls.

Upsets him i guess when hes the one supposed to cross the board first turn. :smile:


Hello.
What do you mean with "dropping 1" away"?
Cross the board flying around?

Klapaucius87
Shas'Saal
Posts: 16

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#9 » Nov 30 2017 08:13

Kerrygan wrote:
AleksandrGRC wrote:Last time i did 75 pt game vs nids
I dropped a bunch of mostly fusion crisis with drones in front of his lines with shadowsun and stealths also with fusion.
He didnt let me finish rolling my first turn and quit.
Totally that guyed him
Hes still mad about dropping 1” away. Not that it even matters with 18” weapons. I didnt really need the fusion Rerolls.

Upsets him i guess when hes the one supposed to cross the board first turn. :smile:


Hello.
What do you mean with "dropping 1" away"?
Cross the board flying around?


I guess he used the stealth suit's homing beacon: it let you strike near the stealth suit no matter where the enemy is. So the stealth run near the enemy, drop a beacon and crisis/commander land around it, completely bypassing the 9'' restriction on deep strike.

Nymphomanius
Shas'Saal
Posts: 361
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Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#10 » Dec 01 2017 05:05

Klapaucius87 wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
AleksandrGRC wrote:Last time i did 75 pt game vs nids
I dropped a bunch of mostly fusion crisis with drones in front of his lines with shadowsun and stealths also with fusion.
He didnt let me finish rolling my first turn and quit.
Totally that guyed him
Hes still mad about dropping 1” away. Not that it even matters with 18” weapons. I didnt really need the fusion Rerolls.

Upsets him i guess when hes the one supposed to cross the board first turn. :smile:


Hello.
What do you mean with "dropping 1" away"?
Cross the board flying around?


I guess he used the stealth suit's homing beacon: it let you strike near the stealth suit no matter where the enemy is. So the stealth run near the enemy, drop a beacon and crisis/commander land around it, completely bypassing the 9'' restriction on deep strike.


Even with a Homing beacon the closest you can get is 4" away he was probably exaggerating for dramatic effect

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 421

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#11 » Dec 01 2017 08:24

Nymphomanius wrote:
Klapaucius87 wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:
Hello.
What do you mean with "dropping 1" away"?
Cross the board flying around?


I guess he used the stealth suit's homing beacon: it let you strike near the stealth suit no matter where the enemy is. So the stealth run near the enemy, drop a beacon and crisis/commander land around it, completely bypassing the 9'' restriction on deep strike.


Even with a Homing beacon the closest you can get is 4" away he was probably exaggerating for dramatic effect


Uhh, 1" away unless you want to be DIRECTLY in combat with a unit. Do you mind explaining why you think it's 4?

Nymphomanius
Shas'Saal
Posts: 361
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Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#12 » Dec 01 2017 08:48

Yojimbob wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Klapaucius87 wrote:
I guess he used the stealth suit's homing beacon: it let you strike near the stealth suit no matter where the enemy is. So the stealth run near the enemy, drop a beacon and crisis/commander land around it, completely bypassing the 9'' restriction on deep strike.


Even with a Homing beacon the closest you can get is 4" away he was probably exaggerating for dramatic effect


Uhh, 1" away unless you want to be DIRECTLY in combat with a unit. Do you mind explaining why you think it's 4?


Because you can't place a Homing beacon within 9" of an enemy unit because if a Homing beacon comes within 9" its immediately destroyed and then you can't use it to bring a unit in. So Homing beacon has to be 10" away and you can drop within 6" of the beacon 10-6=4.

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 421

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#13 » Dec 01 2017 09:17

Nymphomanius wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Even with a Homing beacon the closest you can get is 4" away he was probably exaggerating for dramatic effect


Uhh, 1" away unless you want to be DIRECTLY in combat with a unit. Do you mind explaining why you think it's 4?


Because you can't place a Homing beacon within 9" of an enemy unit because if a Homing beacon comes within 9" its immediately destroyed and then you can't use it to bring a unit in. So Homing beacon has to be 10" away and you can drop within 6" of the beacon 10-6=4.


Nope, rules state if an enemy unit MOVES within 9" it is destroyed. If you place it in your turn then they aren't moving, usually. Feel free to drop wherever you please!

Nymphomanius
Shas'Saal
Posts: 361
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Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#14 » Dec 01 2017 10:40

Yojimbob wrote:
Nymphomanius wrote:
Yojimbob wrote:
Uhh, 1" away unless you want to be DIRECTLY in combat with a unit. Do you mind explaining why you think it's 4?


Because you can't place a Homing beacon within 9" of an enemy unit because if a Homing beacon comes within 9" its immediately destroyed and then you can't use it to bring a unit in. So Homing beacon has to be 10" away and you can drop within 6" of the beacon 10-6=4.


Nope, rules state if an enemy unit MOVES within 9" it is destroyed. If you place it in your turn then they aren't moving, usually. Feel free to drop wherever you please!


Ah I missed that I read "moves" as "is" and that's how I've played it lol not that those 3" make any real difference if I wanted to charge I can make the 4" most of the time :D

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 421

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#15 » Dec 01 2017 10:46

No worries. Just wanted to make sure it was clarified and also double check my reading of the rule. You're very right that that kind of distance usually doesn't matter. Infact, I usually am trying to keep my guys as far from the enemy as possible while still getting every shot. :P

Graceless
Shas
Posts: 7

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#16 » Dec 01 2017 01:42

Hey there! Primarily-Tyranids player here. Tau may be currently underpowered, but they're seemingly designed to counter 'nids, so this matchup is perfectly winnable with some smart listbuilding. Here's what you need to know!

Synapse is the ability that prevents Tyranids from taking Morale, and what makes their hordes durable. It's an aura buff that is generated by units- usually Characters- with a 12" or 18" range. In the past, the advice for dealing with Tyranids was to shoot the Synapse units and watch the rest of the army eat itself. However, now the Malanthrope (FW), Broodlord, Prime, and Neurothrope can provide Synapse while being untargetable Characters! They all have too many wounds to be effectively sniped, so I suggest that you forget about killing the Synapse sources, and just focus the hordes with high volumes of fire instead. Gun drones are superb for this purpose.

Genestealers and Devourer Termagants are the only really scary horde units you'll be facing; they come in units of up to 20 and 30 respectively. Devourer Termagants excel at clearing screens with high-volume S4 AP0 firepower. They cost twice as much as Fleshborer Termagants for triple the damage, but are just as squishy (T3 6+) as their Fleshborer buddies, so make sure to focus the Devourer units first, and ask your opponent if you're not sure which is which.

Genestealers are arguably the scariest assault troops in the entire game right now, able to shred infantry and tanks alike and cross the board with alarming speed or deepstrike with the use of stratagems or transports. Their weakness is that they're fragile, at only T4 5++ for a 12-point model. Massed AP0 fire, such as from gun drones, is incredibly effective at making them bleed points. Because of their frailty and cost, they're hesitant about charging into flamer overwatch, too. I can't emphasize how important screening your expensive models is, here. Kroot hounds and drones are both good at the job.

Carnifexes are inexpensive tanks with T7, 3+, and the potential to fire 24 S6 AP0 shots at 18" off of BS3+ for just over a hundred points. They're the best Monstrous Creature in the codex, and are usually kitted to either hunt tanks in melee or kill infantry at medium range. With their slow movement and limited deployment options, however, they won't make melee until T2 at the soonest; you can afford to prioritize killing genestealers over meleefexes.

Natively, no Tyranids model has a save better than 3+. However, with the Jormungandr hive fleet bonus, even a 100-point Carnifex can gain a 2+ save via pseudo-cover, as long as it doesn't advance or charge- you're not going to kill that with gun drones. To crack a nut like that you'll need fusion commanders, and a bunch of them.

In conclusion, your best units against Tyranids are Kroot hounds, gun drones, and fusion commanders. Screen properly, watch out for deepstrikers, and don't give up! A lot of mono-Tau players have never learned how to properly deal with a viable melee-heavy army, as shooting-centric as past editions have been, but I think that with a little practice and adjustment this becomes a 50-50 matchup.

CelticBarbarian
Shas'Saal
Posts: 60

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#17 » Dec 05 2017 01:03

3 units of Zoanthropes? Oof. I know that pain.

My best ways of dealing with them are to use my Y'Vahra to flame them up. With 3 damage apiece, each failed save is a dead Zoanthrope. Other than that, Dakka is your best bet. However my advice is to remember that while they are capable of laying down up to 2d3 mortal wounds reliably each turn, Nid players will often use them for DISTRACTION tactics. My advice is to try and reduce them to 3 'thropes apiece. Their average firepower will be cut in half and you can spend the rest of the game focusing on their other units. Remember that while they may look scary and be capable of launching mortal wounds, at most each of them is going to kill 3 models and you can keep your characters safe just by putting any unit closer.

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Leonidas
Shas
Posts: 1

Re: How to deal with Nids?

Post#18 » Dec 05 2017 02:51

I have been having really good luck against nids, here is the 2k list I ran on a nid player this past Friday. It is exactly 2k

Supreme command
Commander - 3x burst cannons ATS, 2 shield drones
Commander - 3x burst cannons ATS, 2 shield drones
Commander - 3x plasma rifles shield gen, 2 shield drones
Commander - 3x plasma rifles, drone controller, 2 shield drones

Outrider
Longstrike - sms
Cadre fireblade

3x xv9 hazard suits - 4 shield drones

6x gun drones
6x gun drones
6x gun drones
6x gun drones
9x shield drones

Tx7 support gunship - HBC, SMS
Tx7 support gunship - HBC, SMS

Sunshark bomber

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