Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Draaen
Shas'La
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Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#1 » Dec 03 2017 02:34

I've drafted up this article and I'd like it to be the starting point for a conversation on how to effectively engage in melee as Tau for an academy article. I know we aren't actively trying to write academy articles as the codex is not released so I have attempted to focus this on melee combat as much as possible since the core rules won't change. That would allow it to remain relevant no matter what the codex changes with maybe a minor edit.

I wrote this as I used to just nod my head when I got into melee as it was just a phase my guys died in. So I wanted to show how to make the most of the phases so that you could set yourself up in situations to take advantage of it.

I've played a lot of white scars so assaulting falling back and re-assaulting had me thinking of weird scenarios to make the most of melee. Some of those scenarios were oddly applicable to Tau as we have a lot of flyers. I thought my perspective may be interesting to some players. That and I was curious if I had been playing it wrong as I'm sure if I do have wrong statements in the article people will kindly point them out.

So on to the article.

Objective:

Lay out the basics of the assault phase, the fight phase and tactics for those phases that apply to the Tau general.

Core Rules Summary:

Assault Phase

Launching an Assault: In order to assault you must be within 12" of unit(s) you are declaring an assault against. The targets of the assault get to overwatch if not engaged. If the unit is alive you roll 2d6" and if that distance is enough to get you within 1" of your target you can move that distance so long as the first model moved is within 1" and no models are within 1" of a model that was not charged.

Note: you do not need to move in a straight line or have the closest models connect as in previous editions.

Heroic Intervention: occurs after all assaults have been completed. A character can heroically intervene if they are within 3" of an enemy unit and can move up to 3" so long as they are closer to the closest enemy model.

Fight Phase

Choose a unit to fight with: Units within 1" of an enemy OR that have assaulted may be chosen. Further units that assaulted must be chosen first, otherwise it alternates between players with the active player getting first choice. If playing matched play a 2 command point stratagem allows a unit to be activated out of the normal turn order after the first activation is complete.

Pile In: Each model in the activated unit may move 3". This move must end you nearer to the closest enemy model. If you are in base to base contact you are unable to move.

Note: Pile in can move you within 1" of an enemy even one not charged.

Attack: Then the unit is able to attack and the melee portion of combat is resolved.

Consolidate: Each model in the activated unit may move 3". This move must end you nearer to the closest enemy model. If you are in base to base contact you are unable to move.

Note: Consolidate can move you within 1" of an enemy even one not charged.

Movement Phase

Fall Back: A unit may move it's movement speed but must end further than 1" away from any unit and cannot advance, assault or shoot without special exceptions. Notably flying models may shoot after they fall back.

Why Engage in Combat?

Tau don't particularly excel at killing things in melee so why even bother?

1. Successfully engaging a non-flying unit will force the target to stay engaged in combat or fall back denying it return fire on your opponents turn.

2. Successfully assaulting a non-flying unit will force the target of the assault to over watch the assaulter. Therefore you get to choose who the target is and the enemy hits on 6's.

3. If the target is unable to fall back or chooses not to fall back the units that assaulted cannot be targeted in the shooting phase except with pistols.

4. A lot of Tau units have the fly keyword and are shooting focused. Therefore Tau can shoot, assault, deny an enemy shooting, fall back and then shoot. The opponent is given a much worse trade without any special rules.

5. Extra movement. a maximum 12" assault, 3" pile in and 3" consolidate moves means potentially an additional 18" of movement in one phase. This can help you get onto objectives, across the field or away from a larger melee threat.

When to Engage in Combat?

The ideal targets are ranged units that do not have fly and are poor in close combat. Assaulting thunder hammer terminators is probably not to your benefit. Piling into devastators so they can't shoot next turn is. Tanks are particularly good targets as in general they hit in melee on a 6+ and typically do a single point of damage if they get lucky and successfully wound.

Note: Smite and other psychic powers occur before the shooting phase. This should be taken into account as the assaulting unit may be removed before the opponents shooting phase if it is weakened enough. This will allow the opponent to shoot with the unit initially thought to be denied by the assault.

Offensive Combat Tactics

Getting Locked in Combat

Opponents are able to fall back as well so staying locked in combat requires some thought. Unless enemy units have a special rule like fly they cannot move through a Tau base. Therefore the easiest way to lock an opponent down is with 3 models who form a triangle so that there is no way the enemy model can rotate or move without moving through your bases. Since the enemy model cannot make a legal move ending further than 1" from Tau the enemy model cannot fall back. Therefore the Tau unit is locked in combat and unable to be targeted by shooting.

If the enemy model in the triangle is part of a unit your opponent may remove it as a casualty so he can fall back. This can be an advantage if you aim to lock in a special weapon wielding model or champion so that your opponent must remove the special model or remain locked in combat.

Drone Charging Shield

Weathering over watch is an occupational hazard for a Tau force wishing to assault. If a unit declares an assault and is destroyed then the opponent may be able to over watch a second time. Further there may not be enough models to lock the opponent in combat if a whole unit is removed. In order to circumvent this the first assault can be made by models which can pass wounds off on the drones. This bit of protection will help ensure charge to be successful allowing longer assault by other Tau units.

Homing Beacon Assault

The homing beacon on the stealth suits allows the manta striking unit to deploy very close to enemy units. Therefore a squad of sufficient size that wishes for extra protection can manta strike very close to a transport or poor melee unit. The manta striking unit can shoot it's intended target and then assault the softer target. If the manta striking unit is large or has accompanying drones they can lock themselves in combat. The stealth squad and any accompanying drones can attempt an assault as well to assist the manta strikers and also gain the defensive benefits.

Further this style of initial assault will typically be deeper in the opponent's deployment zone. Characters behind the manta strikers will be immune from non sniper shooting that shooting phase.

Engagements Without Overwatch

Since the main aim of combat for Tau is to tie up units and not to do damage it is desirable to declare a charge against the fewest units possible with the least firepower while engaging the most enemy units. In order to achieve this it is recommended to shoot a unit which is next to the intended target(s) that need to be engaged in combat. Reduce the initial target so that it has ideally 1 model or a very weak over watch. Declare the assault solely against that unit but move your unit so that the intended target(s) are the closest to some models within the your unit. When pile in occurs your models engage the intended target(s). Those models which pile in cannot attack the intended target(s) and the intended target(s) can attack your assaulting unit. If casualties do happen remove models so that your intended target(s) remain locked in combat. Then the opponent will need to fall back on his turn.

Note: When removing casualties the unit is allowed to become out of coordination.

Dine and Dash

The key here is to assault an initial target which is about your base length away from your intended target. Declare an assault against the initial target. Move your assaulter so that he is .9" away from the initial target 1" away from the intended target and at an angle. During pile in finish the rotation of your model so that you are now closer to the intended target then the initial target. Attack the initial target and consolidate so that you are closer to the intended target and further than 1" from the initial target.

This works because you consolidate toward the closest enemy model which you made the intended target. The initial target will now not be able to be activated unless engaged with another unit already as the assaulter will be further than 1" away. This can help you get to further units/objectives by using the pile in and consolidate moves. Since the initial target does not get to attack this helps open more targets safely for assault.

Sling Shot

Declare multiple assaults against an exceptionally easy to kill target in melee. Activate the best melee unit first and hope to kill the target. Once the target is dead every other unit that is engaged may pile in and consolidate. This tactic is purely about getting the most out of the extra movement.

Offensive Combat Tactics

Drone Pile in Shield

Enemies must pile in and consolidate towards the closest enemy model. Therefore if a vehicle carrying drones is destroyed in melee the drones can be placed so they are the closest Tau model to the enemy and are in the direction you wish your opponent to move. This can help prevent enemy units from consolidating into other Tau units that cannot fall back and shoot.

Man to Man Coverage

Models cannot pile in or advance when in base to base contact with an enemy model. This tactic helps prevent some or all of the extra movement that would allow enemy units to engage multiple Tau units. To do this just ensure after you are finished moving you are in base to base contact with the opponents models. This can be done within normal activation, Heroic Intervention or with the counter-offensive stratagem.

Sacrifice for the Greater Good

So this one is more difficult to get off since a unit that assaulted may always be activated and can tehrefore pile in and assault. If a Tau unit is locked in a protracted combat or has suffered losses from morale it is possible to remove models so that the unit is no longer within 1" of an enemy unit. This removes the unit from combat without requiring it to fall back.

Unit Analysis

What Makes a Good Assault Candidate

Any unit depending on the situation is a good candidate to assault. However in general there are few things which determine what an ideal assault candidate is.

1. Fly so it can fall back and shoot
1. Speed to get reliable charges
3. Toughness so it can weather over watch and melee
4. Able to pass wounds off on Drones for additional survivability
5. Melee ability to maybe do some additional damage

Ideal Assault Units

These models are well equipped for effective combat. I leave it to others to debate point efficiency. This list just considers the models statics.

Commander Farsight
Cold Star Commander with advanced targeting system
Any other suits
Piranhas
Drones
Devilfish

Conclusion

Tau can control tempo and derive many benefits from engaging in melee combat. If done with some forethought it is a phase a Tau general can do to an opponent rather than always being a phase done to the Tau general.
All empires fall you just have to know where to push

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#2 » Dec 03 2017 05:30

I think you have an excellent basis for an academy article here. We may need to get together to put some graphics together to illustrate some of the tactics, diagrams are really helpful when it comes to understanding positional play.

Reading through it all seemed to make sense yet seemed to conclude that Kroot Hounds are not a good candidate for assault unit. Which tells me that something is missing from the "theory" because Kroot Hounds are actually one of our better assault units.

Kroot Hounds do not use all of the tricks you suggest but they hardly need to; they work because they are dead cheap and fast across the table. It does not matter that they do not have Fly because they have no shooting to lose anyway. They are certainly flimsy but you need to try to pick the right targets for a charge, ideally something with big heavy weapons which will be wasteful overkill on a Hound. Also if you soften the target up a little they can get a re-roll to charge which really helps if you need to pull off a longer charge.

Nymphomanius
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#3 » Dec 03 2017 06:41

Also if you have him, Shas'O R'ymr, a FW Commander but better equipped than even Farsight to deal with low toughness single wound models in CC and even last vs low attack high Str models due to a 3+ inv in CC and his 8str4 attacks (would be even better of he came with an ATS but alas :D)

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JancoBCN
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#4 » Dec 03 2017 02:41

I have to congratulate you for putting words to which I think is a key aspect of 8th, and that affects us in a huge manner. Also, very well stated and written.

I would commentate one by one each of your points, but I would like to add an important key tactic to those already pointed out instead, and I also will tell a brief report of a brief battle, in which a lot of those key tactics were put on practice by my aggressive T'au list.

Direct Manta Lock

When you drop a Unit from Manta Strike using a Homing Beacon, the rule states that the whole unit must be placed within 6" of the Homing Beacon, but it doesn't say anything regarding enemy models. So you actually can drop from Manta Strike directly Engaged in combat with units that are close enough, if this is more convenient for you than getting to shoot first and then charge to the intended target (maybe in a situation where the Overwatch of the target may be more dangerous than your shooting, e.g. Shield/Gun drones charging a flamer-equipped tank). Also, as with crisis teams and drones you drop at least 6-9 models, you actually can lock down a lot of enemy units whitout taking any Overwatch fire, letting, for example, your Characters do their job while being inmune to non-sniper shooting attacks, as already stated by this post's author.


On the promised brief battle report:

2000 point Matched battle, Astra Militarum vs T'au
My list (aprox, I don't remember the whole list, but this is around 1950p from the 2000):

HQ
4xQFC
1xCommander, 3xCIB, ATS
Ethereal, hover drone

Troops
4x 10Kroot Carnivores

Elite
3x 3 Stealth Suits, Homing Beacon, Drone controller, 2xShield Drones
2x 3 Crisis Suits Full flamer, 6 gun drones

So, all in manta strike. The AM list had 1 Lord of War tank from ForgeWorld (W20+, T8), 4 Leman Russ, 3 Chimera full of Catachan's veterans and troops with flamers, and 2 Basilisks. Also, 20xGuards screening the artillery.

The mission was kill points, and the deployment was Down of War, so he deployed all his tanks scattered along his zone. I deployed my infiltrators as closest as I could while being in cover/outside of his line of sight. His deployment was like that:
[LoW] [Chi1] [Chi2] [Chi3] ___ [LRss1] [LRss2] [LRss3] [LRss4] _______[Bas1] [Bas2]

Everything touching the upper edge.

I had 1st turn, and I moved forward the Stealth teams in order to alpha strike with my Reserves. I droped all my commanders, and just one Flamer team, who came directly blocking two of his 4 Leman Russ, another one was locked by a pile in movement from one of the stealth suits, and the fourth one and both Basilisks were blown up by my QFCs at Melta range and my CIB Commander.
The result was, that he ended up with his last 3 Leman Russ locked in combat and sorounded, his LoW unable to shoot at anything (it was only seeing my units in combat and my Characters) and his Chimeras could not pass through a building and his 1st Leman Russ to help out the combat, so I hard locked him 100%, being able to fall back at will when I wanted, and bringing forward my QFC poping his tanks 1 by 1, while he had nothing to shoot at for at least 2 other turns.
He surrended before even throwing a dice.

This battle was a mind opener for me, I found out the importance of this sometimes forgotten phase, much more than just charging with a couple of gun drones into a tank or shooty infantry unit.

Just saying, combat is a huge deal in 8th, there are a lot of shenanigans the different armies can do, and us, T'au commanders, have to be able to master them, and use them strategically to take the most advantage of it!



Sorry for the large reply, and thank you again for the article!

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K'Pokk
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#5 » Dec 03 2017 06:02

thanks for posting :smile:
excellent article

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#6 » Dec 03 2017 09:39

Food for thought on combat. Stormsurge ( a personal favorite) has walking battleship ship so it's ok in combat. It's tricks including retreat, shoot, and charge with the ability walking battleship. Re-engaging the opponent is useful here if you are using the stormsurge to screen for your softer units behind it at the cost of an overwatch. I played a game today using these tactics. It's combat wasn't great despite having an ats, but it was good at shielding longstrike from 30 Boyz, and 6 Killa kans that were able to get in range for close combat.

Commander Farsight probably has one of the better close combat synergies with homing beacon due to his high melee attributes. Close Combat can work with exemplar of kayoun as well. Maybe running a farsight enclaves dettachment can give an army some spice while waiting for the codex?

ATS currently raises the value of "close combat weapon" assumed weapons our robots can carry. So that helps us a little in melee.

Landing our units on terrain with some height makes it harder for your opponent to get into combat with you. The reverse is true if you are trying to engage

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#7 » Dec 03 2017 10:02

Good start Draaen. I have added this to the [Phase 1] The 8th Edition Academy Project Introduction and Table of Contents thread under tactics. Keep up the good work.

Czar Ziggy

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Arka0415
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#8 » Dec 03 2017 10:22

I posted about 8th Edition academy articles a few months back, as I'm looking for authors to help write the 8th Edition article series. However, most people felt that we should wait until the Codex comes out, and I guess I agree. Draaen, would you like to work with me on those when the Codex is finally released?

stayhandsome
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#9 » Dec 03 2017 10:22

Very helpful write-up. Thanks!

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#10 » Dec 04 2017 05:28

JancoBCN wrote:I have to congratulate you for putting words to which I think is a key aspect of 8th, and that affects us in a huge manner. Also, very well stated and written.

I would commentate one by one each of your points, but I would like to add an important key tactic to those already pointed out instead, and I also will tell a brief report of a brief battle, in which a lot of those key tactics were put on practice by my aggressive T'au list.

Direct Manta Lock

When you drop a Unit from Manta Strike using a Homing Beacon, the rule states that the whole unit must be placed within 6" of the Homing Beacon, but it doesn't say anything regarding enemy models. So you actually can drop from Manta Strike directly Engaged in combat with units that are close enough, if this is more convenient for you than getting to shoot first and then charge to the intended target (maybe in a situation where the Overwatch of the target may be more dangerous than your shooting, e.g. Shield/Gun drones charging a flamer-equipped tank). Also, as with crisis teams and drones you drop at least 6-9 models, you actually can lock down a lot of enemy units whitout taking any Overwatch fire, letting, for example, your Characters do their job while being inmune to non-sniper shooting attacks, as already stated by this post's author.


I don't think you can do this actually..
Yes Homing Beacon does not mention Enemy models
But: The general rule is that no model can Move within 1" of an enemy model in the Movenemt phase, now as reinforcements come in on the end of the movement phase and count as having moved for all rules and purposes (bar other special rules). This General rule is not overwritten by the Homing Beacon rule, so while you can deploy within 9" of an enemy model due to the homing Beacon rule (as you are forced to deploy within the 6" bubble of the HB) I don't think you can get into combat with it as that would violate the General rule of moveing within 1" of an enemy model.

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#11 » Dec 04 2017 08:18

StealthKnightSteg wrote:I don't think you can do this actually..
Yes Homing Beacon does not mention Enemy models
But: The general rule is that no model can Move within 1" of an enemy model in the Movenemt phase, now as reinforcements come in on the end of the movement phase and count as having moved for all rules and purposes (bar other special rules). This General rule is not overwritten by the Homing Beacon rule, so while you can deploy within 9" of an enemy model due to the homing Beacon rule (as you are forced to deploy within the 6" bubble of the HB) I don't think you can get into combat with it as that would violate the General rule of moveing within 1" of an enemy model.


This wouldn't be the first exception placing a unit into combat. You also have consolidating and heroic intervention. The generalized rule you are referring to is on page 177.
"Enemy models

All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models. When [url]you move a model[/url]in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy model"

Also on page 177 is the loop hole for homing beacon to allow the shenanigans.

"Reinforcements

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive -their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield -but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrived as reinforcements count as having moved in their moving phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting have a weapons (page 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed."

So my reasoning to believe it works is blaming on GW poor wording choice of using "move" as much as they use the word "wound". So the first part I underlined I argue is referring to the actual use of using a models movement characteristic or advancing. It is in the same location as that type of movement, so it makes sense to me that is what it is referring to in context. Second and third part I underlined is to demostrate that using "moving" is has a dual meaning in GW rulesbook. The forth thing I underlined is to argue that while using reserves count as having moved moved (note:past tense, as in 'I just homing beaconed less than 1", what are you going to do about it?') it is differentiated from actually being a form a 'movement in the Movement phase'. Last reason to believe homing beacon allows units to drop in combat. Is manta striking specifically states more than 9" from an enemy unit. Homing beacon modifies where manta strike can happen (specifically distance). GW is very good about putting "more the 1" " clauses in abilities, so it's hard to believe they would 'forget' to put that clause here.

Bottom line: dropping into close combat is very much a rules as written gameplay style.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#12 » Dec 04 2017 08:49

Lostroninsoul wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:I don't think you can do this actually..
Yes Homing Beacon does not mention Enemy models
But: The general rule is that no model can Move within 1" of an enemy model in the Movenemt phase, now as reinforcements come in on the end of the movement phase and count as having moved for all rules and purposes (bar other special rules). This General rule is not overwritten by the Homing Beacon rule, so while you can deploy within 9" of an enemy model due to the homing Beacon rule (as you are forced to deploy within the 6" bubble of the HB) I don't think you can get into combat with it as that would violate the General rule of moveing within 1" of an enemy model.


This wouldn't be the first exception placing a unit into combat. You also have consolidating and heroic intervention. The generalized rule you are referring to is on page 177.
"Enemy models

All models in the same army are friendly models. Models controlled by an opposing player are enemy models. When [url]you move a model[/url]in the Movement phase, it may not be moved within 1" of any enemy model"

Also on page 177 is the loop hole for homing beacon to allow the shenanigans.

"Reinforcements

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive -their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield -but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrived as reinforcements count as having moved in their moving phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting have a weapons (page 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed."

So my reasoning to believe it works is blaming on GW poor wording choice of using "move" as much as they use the word "wound". So the first part I underlined I argue is referring to the actual use of using a models movement characteristic or advancing. It is in the same location as that type of movement, so it makes sense to me that is what it is referring to in context. Second and third part I underlined is to demostrate that using "moving" is has a dual meaning in GW rulesbook. The forth thing I underlined is to argue that while using reserves count as having moved moved (note:past tense, as in 'I just homing beaconed less than 1", what are you going to do about it?') it is differentiated from actually being a form a 'movement in the Movement phase'. Last reason to believe homing beacon allows units to drop in combat. Is manta striking specifically states more than 9" from an enemy unit. Homing beacon modifies where manta strike can happen (specifically distance). GW is very good about putting "more the 1" " clauses in abilities, so it's hard to believe they would 'forget' to put that clause here.

Bottom line: dropping into close combat is very much a rules as written gameplay style.



Yes it's not really clear just as with the wound wording..

I do want to highlight another part that I think is vital to this discussion:

"Reinforcements

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive -their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield -but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrived as reinforcements count as having moved in their moving phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting have a weapons(page 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed."


The underlined would suggest that they moved.. and thus cannot come within the 1" bubble of enemy models. Same applies with disembarking models, though I must admit.. it does so specifically says that you cannot disembark within 1" though, there I would expect it as it could happen in another fase where the normal movement phase rule would not apply.

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Rayscarnage
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#13 » Dec 04 2017 09:32

The homing beacon would not work for the simple fact that if an ennemy unit is within 9'' the homing beacon is destroyed.... So you could have a model at 3.000001'' inch at max of an ennemi with a beacon.

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StealthKnightSteg
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#14 » Dec 04 2017 09:52

Rayscarnage wrote:The homing beacon would not work for the simple fact that if an ennemy unit is within 9'' the homing beacon is destroyed.... So you could have a model at 3.000001'' inch at max of an ennemi with a beacon.


re-read the rule for Homingbeacon :)

".. Homing beacons are deactivated and removed from the battlefield if an enemy model ends a move within 9" of it."

In your turn their should be (almost none) enemy movement so they could end up within 9", so if you use it up in your own movement pahse you'll have no problems.

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Draaen
Shas'La
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#15 » Dec 04 2017 10:54

Diagrams are on my to do list for this article especially since it is based more around how things move. Although it will be after I finish painting my secret santa model for our club. Kroot hounds are definitely an exception to the rule for Tau. I don't have the models so I can't speak to in game experiences but stat line to cost wise they look really good at actually hurting people in melee.

Putting Farsight at the top of the list was merely a nod to the models significance in the fluff and that he brings something different for Tau as opposed to being the best model for it. I didn't put forge world models in there because I don't play with them or have their rules but I would gladly add them if there are any people that would recommend a list other people agreed on.

Arka I would enjoy working on some of the academy articles. I always liked reading them it will be cool to help write them.
All empires fall you just have to know where to push

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Lostroninsoul
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Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#16 » Dec 04 2017 11:48

StealthKnightSteg wrote:
"Reinforcements

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive -their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield -but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrived as reinforcements count as having moved in their moving phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting have a weapons(page 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed."


The underlined would suggest that they moved.. and thus cannot come within the 1" bubble of enemy models. Same applies with disembarking models, though I must admit.. it does so specifically says that you cannot disembark within 1" though, there I would expect it as it could happen in another fase where the normal movement phase rule would not apply.


The quote you are referring to is in context of doing things normally once you have moved. In context all it does is points out moving and bringing in reserves is similar but different. Just like it deployment , you can set your units base to base next to a enemy unit that has foolishly/boldly "infiltrated into your deployment Zone. It's a similar but different situation . It's still unclearly defined and defaults to a R.A.W. vrs R.A.I. situation.

I' have doubt that GW will try to ever errata that because Tau isn't built for CC. Even Farsight isn't competitive in CC. So it won't be abused enough to make GW prioritizing errataing it one way or another.

If RAW is right: Maybe it's worded as such as an Easter egg? Rewarding creative players who take notice there is no restrictions stopping you from dropping a unit into cc. At 20 points for a homing beacon, it isn't really an auto take when you can only drop one single unit inside 9" and is situational. Outside forgeworld models only useable by: commanders, farsight, crisis suits. It only helps flamers (my opinion is inefficient for points/damage) and fusion blasters. So, it's niche as is and getting a single unit into CC isn't list-breaking exploitative for Tau, IMO. Also if raw is right, a trick would be to tie up an enemy unit with accompanying drones allowing the suits to still have a shooting phase to shoot a different target.

I will admit I'm biasedly in the RAW camp.

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JancoBCN
Shas'Saal
Posts: 25

Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#17 » Dec 04 2017 12:37

Lostroninsoul wrote:GW is very good about putting "more the 1" " clauses in abilities, so it's hard to believe they would 'forget' to put that clause here.


Exactly! this is indeed my reasoning too. At first, I assumed you coudn't, cause this is the logic GW wants to settle with 8th ed. But after some games and video reports, I learned that you could use the "pile in" and "consolidate" moves to actually engage combat whithout charging. Then, I started to look more carefully where did they put the "more than 1" " clause and where they did not.

As said for Lostroninsoul, the fact that GW does not have problem to flood all the movement rules with the mentioned clause, and given that the Index: Xenos 2 book has been out for 5+ months now, and FAQ'd 3 times already, I cannot believe that they have missed the Homing Beacon rule by mistake.

As a parallel comment, I have to mention that the fact that you are or not able to drop into combat does not make a huge difference, except a few specific situations (flamers' overwatch?). So maybe they let that happen, as it was hardly exploitable.

Regarding this comment:

StealthKnightSteg wrote:The underlined would suggest that they moved.. and thus cannot come within the 1" bubble of enemy models.


I have to completely disagree.

But before going any further, I have to say 2 things:
[1] English is not (not that it suprises anybody) my native language.
[2] I come to W40k from another hobby, Magic: The Gathering. There, you have to be aware of the wording, because the game actually works thanks and only thanks to the specific wording each card has. Whether there is or there is not a word in the sentence, is made carefully to ensure there is not a better option to explain that rule. That also makes me look at W40k from a more strategic point of view.

That said, reading the paragraph StealthKnightSteg quoted, there is a difference between "counting as having moved" and actually moving. "Counting as having moved" refers to the current condition of the unit, the rule sees it from the moment it arrives to the battlefield, not before. So first, the unit arrives following each specific case (manta, teleport, homing beacon), and then, the rule applies, so it hasn't been able to limit the place where the unit can be placed.

From my point of view, there is no other way to understand the wording (keeping in mind [1]). Also, I want to clarify that I am not trying to defend this ruling to take advantage of it, it is simply a matter of rule wording and interpretation. I insist that there is not much to gain from that being one way or another.


And finally, I would love to hear more and more ideas from other T'au commanders that have different opinions/interpretations in such a complex matter.

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JancoBCN
Shas'Saal
Posts: 25

Re: Combat Handbook: Tips and Tricks for Tau

Post#18 » Dec 04 2017 12:44

Lostroninsoul wrote:
StealthKnightSteg wrote:
"Reinforcements

Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive -their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield -but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc) for the rest of the turn. Units that arrived as reinforcements count as having moved in their moving phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting have a weapons(page 180). Any unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed."


The underlined would suggest that they moved.. and thus cannot come within the 1" bubble of enemy models. Same applies with disembarking models, though I must admit.. it does so specifically says that you cannot disembark within 1" though, there I would expect it as it could happen in another fase where the normal movement phase rule would not apply.


The quote you are referring to is in context of doing things normally once you have moved. In context all it does is points out moving and bringing in reserves is similar but different. Just like it deployment , you can set your units base to base next to a enemy unit that has foolishly/boldly "infiltrated into your deployment Zone. It's a similar but different situation . It's still unclearly defined and defaults to a R.A.W. vrs R.A.I. situation.

I' have doubt that GW will try to ever errata that because Tau isn't built for CC. Even Farsight isn't competitive in CC. So it won't be abused enough to make GW prioritizing errataing it one way or another.

If RAW is right: Maybe it's worded as such as an Easter egg? Rewarding creative players who take notice there is no restrictions stopping you from dropping a unit into cc. At 20 points for a homing beacon, it isn't really an auto take when you can only drop one single unit inside 9" and is situational. Outside forgeworld models only useable by: commanders, farsight, crisis suits. It only helps flamers (my opinion is inefficient for points/damage) and fusion blasters. So, it's niche as is and getting a single unit into CC isn't list-breaking exploitative for Tau, IMO. Also if raw is right, a trick would be to tie up an enemy unit with accompanying drones allowing the suits to still have a shooting phase to shoot a different target.

I will admit I'm biasedly in the RAW camp.


I have basically said the same than you, I did not see your post, given that I started to write it 2h ago...
Sorry for that!

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