Long range or medium Range ?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Atlas_MH
Shas
Posts: 4

Long range or medium Range ?

Post#1 » Dec 04 2017 09:55

Hey Everyone,
I am struggling against the Space Marine/ Chaos Space Marine bolters, plasma, and Melta weapons.
I have tried using QFC's, CIB crisis suits, even went with plasma crisis suits last match.
I guess the reason for this post is to ask how everyone is dealing with the majority of our weapons being 18'' and how they are going against the armies that can out shoot us at 24''?

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Jhi'Myr
Shas'Saal
Posts: 11
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Re: Long range or medium Range ?

Post#2 » Dec 04 2017 09:32

Sounds like you're relying on crisis suits to do your heavy lifting. Crisis are the red headed step child this edition. It can be done, butbyouve got to really try hard. Against MEQ the most effective crisis suit is burst cannons with an ATS. Keep them in reserves and deepstrike them. More effective than that would be a burst Hazzard with ATS. The most effective thing in our army for MEQ killing is a commander with 3 burst and an ATS.

All of this though is a very mont'ka strategy. You need an army capable of both mont'ka and Kauyon. Draw the enemy close, stretch them thin, with a sly kauyon, then snap the trap with full mont'ka power. For facing a marine army, I suggest stealth suits with ATS harassing the marine front lines. Have the stealth suits use cover to be effectively a -1 to hit 2+ armor save tar pit. Your enemy will get frustrated and do what everyone does in response to Tau: charge. The stealth suits have done there job at this point. Theyre still -1 to hit in CQC. They tar pit anything but a dedicated assault unit without dieing, not that it matters. They either die or fall back the following turn. You drop your crisis behind the marines, in range of shooting the enemy back line, with all the drones closest to the marine's infantry that charged. Your stealth suits and drones shred the MEQ while the crisis suits cut into the enemy back line.

Doing this draws the enemy army thin and effectively neutralizes your 6 inch disadvantage. Note that crisis suits are vastly inferior point for point to other options, but their real value is their customizability. You want to shred a tank? Take a hammerhead, broadside, or crisis suit. You want to shred infantry? Take fire warriors, stealth suits, or crisis suits. You want to hurt light vehicles? Take a broadside, or a crisis suit. So, have your units be specialists. Build an army, decide what it cant handle, and apply crisis suits until balanced. So for example, your marine enemy plays lots of tanks, devastators, and scouts. You bring a brigade with 2 commanders with 3 burst and ATS each, 3 minimum units of fire warriors, two or so stealth teams with ATS and burst cannons, one unit of crisis suits with 3 fusion blasters and as many gun drones as the crisis can carry. Add in a handful of pathfinders to make a point of target prioritization and utility (if the devs take advantage of terrain, or you need to advance, for instance.) And a whole mess load of drones for ablative wounds (not optional) and youve got an army. The scouts get moved to charge the stealth suits, the commanders drop in front of the devs, the crisis drop in front of the tanks, make sure your gun drones are closest to the scouts, and do your absolute best to cripple your opponent in that turn. If you've done it right he'll still have bark but not much bite left and you can control the board to claim objectives and tactical positioning.

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2200

Re: Long range or medium Range ?

Post#3 » Dec 04 2017 11:04

Jhi'Myr, your response to Atlas_MH's question was very thorough but I don't think it's all sound advice. Let's look at a few things:

Jhi'Myr wrote:Against MEQ the most effective crisis suit is burst cannons with an ATS. Keep them in reserves and deepstrike them. More effective than that would be a burst Hazzard with ATS. The most effective thing in our army for MEQ killing is a commander with 3 burst and an ATS.

You shouldn't put Burst Cannons on a Commander, especially against MEQ armies. Sure, you're getting a decent anti-MEQ tool, but that's all they can do. Remember that Space Marines of all flavors also come with Primaris Marines, Terminators, and light transports; against all of which the Burst Cannon is a woefully-inadequate weapon. A Commander with 3x CIBs and an ATS will statistically kill the same number of MEQs, almost double the number of Primaris Marines or Terminators, and is three times as effective against light transports like Rhinos and Razorbacks. Mathhammer might tell you that Burst Cannons are slightly more efficient against 1W MEQs, but there's a lot more to consider than just the math.

Jhi'Myr wrote:Doing this draws the enemy army thin and effectively neutralizes your 6 inch disadvantage. Note that crisis suits are vastly inferior point for point to other options, but their real value is their customizability. You want to shred a tank? Take a hammerhead, broadside, or crisis suit. You want to shred infantry? Take fire warriors, stealth suits, or crisis suits. You want to hurt light vehicles? Take a broadside, or a crisis suit.

I understand the point you're making here, but I think you're referencing the wrong units. If you want to shred a tank, don't take Hammerheads or Broadsides- they're going to take 2-3 wounds off a vehicle, at best. Instead, take a Fusion Commander or Y'vahra. If you want to shred infantry, take Gun Drones, that's what they're for.

Hammerheads (and by that I mean Longstrike) have a different role- they're not alpha-strikers, they're executioners. If a tank survives your Fusion Commander's assault with a couple wounds remaining, use your Railgun and Seeker Missiles to finish it off.

Jhi'Myr wrote:So, have your units be specialists. Build an army, decide what it cant handle, and apply crisis suits until balanced.

XV8s and Commanders are our specialists. You should start by using Commanders and XV8s in the roles they're good at- using Fusion Blasters and Flamers respectively. If you can't handle something, then add CIB-weilding XV8s and/or Commanders for anti-elite/anti-vehicle, or Gun Drones and Fire Warriors for anti-infantry.

Jhi'Myr wrote:So for example, your marine enemy plays lots of tanks, devastators, and scouts. You bring a brigade with 2 commanders with 3 burst and ATS each, 3 minimum units of fire warriors, two or so stealth teams with ATS and burst cannons, one unit of crisis suits with 3 fusion blasters and as many gun drones as the crisis can carry. Add in a handful of pathfinders to make a point of target prioritization and utility (if the devs take advantage of terrain, or you need to advance, for instance.) And a whole mess load of drones for ablative wounds (not optional) and youve got an army.

Hold up, I hate to be negative, but this is not a good list for this situation. If you have Commanders, they should be carrying Fusion Blasters and going after tanks. If you have XV8s, they should have CIBs (or Flamers) and Gun Drones, and should go after infantry. Two Fusion Commanders and 3 CIB XV8s will do much more damage against Razorbacks and Devastators than two Burst Commanders and 3 Fusion XV8s will.

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Emberkahn
Shas'Saal
Posts: 116

Re: Long range or medium Range ?

Post#4 » Dec 04 2017 11:19

Medium/short range every time.

If you are having problems with Melta and Plasma, bring drones (like 50+), in tandem with other things to take advantage of character targeting special rules.

Tau have a very small, very specific subset of units that are great. Everything else in our codex is usable, but ultimately average and very skill dependent. Spam this small group of good units (which are raised in literally every suggested list in the Army List Forum) and in my experience you should be fine against opponents in sub 2000 pt games. Tau become weaker I find as you go up in points, as our lack of diversity becomes more apparent.

The way you deal with our range is acknowledge that everything that can Deepstrike should deepstrike, and the purpose of everything that isn't deepstriking is to survive so that you don't get tabled in time for you to deepstrike.

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