Dealing with Custodes?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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T.Wiseau
Shas'Saal
Posts: 24

Dealing with Custodes?

Post#1 » Dec 10 2017 05:12

Im having a bit of trouble playing vs Custodians with my T'au. The Dakka does almost nothing vs t5 2+ and the Fusion is struggling against 5++ and FnP Raiders.

In my first game I tried to play around the Land Raiders, since I have no realistic way of taking them out, and go for an objective win, but the dmg output from those bs2 Lascannons is just too high to ignore :dead:

The list im playing against is:
2 Land Raiders
2 Cheap Inquisitors for psychic support.
5 Custodian Squads with Storm Shields on most of them.

My list is:
2x Fusion Commanders
1x Coldstar
1x Cyclic Ion Commander
1x Missile Pod Commander
2x Devilfish with Breachers
6x Stealth Suits
3x Flamer Crisis Suits w 6x Drones
2x Pathfinder Squads
2x Strike Teams
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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2671

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#2 » Dec 10 2017 07:56

I admit I've never even met a Custodes player, but this seems like a tough list. I think the trick here will be to focus fire and make good trades.

Focus the firepower of all of your Commanders on one Land Raider. If you crack it, focus everything else on the squad inside. Taking down one Land Raider, or one squad of Custodes, in a turn is a huge victory, as those represent hundreds of points of value for the Custodes player.

Besides focus-fire, I'd mention that if your local meta includes such a powerful Custodes army, I'd bring more anti-tank than just two Fusion Commanders.

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leo1925
Shas
Posts: 92

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#3 » Dec 10 2017 08:37

Are there rules for custodes in 8th or are you playing 7th?

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T.Wiseau
Shas'Saal
Posts: 24

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#4 » Dec 10 2017 08:48

leo1925 wrote:Are there rules for custodes in 8th or are you playing 7th?


Yeah there are. Rules for them are in Index Imperium 2.

Arka0415 wrote:I admit I've never even met a Custodes player, but this seems like a tough list. I think the trick here will be to focus fire and make good trades.

Focus the firepower of all of your Commanders on one Land Raider. If you crack it, focus everything else on the squad inside. Taking down one Land Raider, or one squad of Custodes, in a turn is a huge victory, as those represent hundreds of points of value for the Custodes player.

Besides focus-fire, I'd mention that if your local meta includes such a powerful Custodes army, I'd bring more anti-tank than just two Fusion Commanders.


I probably should add more anti-tank but im not sure what kind. Hammerheads are really disapointing with only 1 shot and Broadsides are possibly the most overpriced models in the game. I don't want to sound too pessimistic but it seems to me like most T'au anti-tank(besides commanders) is either complete garbage, absurdly overpriced or both :(
It's not true, it's bullsh*t I did not overheat, I did not! Oh Hi MARKerlight!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
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Posts: 2671

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#5 » Dec 10 2017 09:34

T.Wiseau wrote:
leo1925 wrote:Are there rules for custodes in 8th or are you playing 7th?


Yeah there are. Rules for them are in Index Imperium 2.

Haha, there are Index rules, not even a Codex, and Custodes are insane. The best way to take them down is to outrage them, but you'd need a veritable battery of Lascannons to even scratch those vehicles and we can't put out even close to enough firepower to scratch them! :neutral:

T.Wiseau wrote:I probably should add more anti-tank but im not sure what kind. Hammerheads are really disapointing with only 1 shot and Broadsides are possibly the most overpriced models in the game. I don't want to sound too pessimistic but it seems to me like most T'au anti-tank(besides commanders) is either complete garbage, absurdly overpriced or both :(

It doesn't need to be different from what you already have. Hammerheads and Broadsides aren't all that good, so feel free to add more Fusion Commanders, more CIBs on whatever platforms, or maybe a Stormsurge if you have one.

Aelfwyrd
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#6 » Dec 10 2017 12:50

I also run custodes with my deathwatch army. Engage the land raider in melee. Damn thing hits on a 6+ so use stealthsuits and it is impossible for it to hit to you. This will force the player to embark his troops. Withdraw from combat if you survive and focus fire into them. That gonna be about the only chance you have. While the land raider is nasty the sentinel blades and storm shields run with the vexilla will be the nastiest thing on the table. Run flyers if you have them.

Nymphomanius
Shas'Saal
Posts: 420
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#7 » Dec 10 2017 02:14

This may sound crazy but have you thought about dropping 1 of the breachers and changing the flamers on Xv8 to missile pod? Missile pod is probably the best weapon vs storm shield custodes also if able add some railrifles to those pathfinders (make squad up to 8 to not lose your markerlight shots)

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 892

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#8 » Dec 10 2017 02:43

Priority is blowing up the land raiders and spreading your troops out. Custodians are slow and their shooting is garbage.

Utilize T'au speed and stay away from custodians as much as possible. Turn 1 and 2 are the hardest. Use screens and spread out to cripple their effectiveness.
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Aelfwyrd
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#9 » Dec 10 2017 03:14

Their shooting is definitely not garbage. They lack volume of fire and volume of units. They are better in melee than shooting but 2+ vs 3+ isn't garbage. What kills my troops is simply volume. If you put enough shots into them they will die.

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T.Wiseau
Shas'Saal
Posts: 24

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#10 » Dec 10 2017 03:42

Aelfwyrd wrote:What kills my troops is simply volume. If you put enough shots into them they will die.


Dude thats simply not true. On average it takes roughly 400 Pulse Rifle shots to kill a 5 man Custodian Squad.


Arka0415 wrote:It doesn't need to be different from what you already have. Hammerheads and Broadsides aren't all that good, so feel free to add more Fusion Commanders, more CIBs on whatever platforms, or maybe a Stormsurge if you have one.




Stormsurge would be great with all the mortal wounds from Destroyer missiles, but since he is too large to hide chances are he will eat 8 bs2 Lascannons on turn 1 and die before he can fire a single shot.
It's not true, it's bullsh*t I did not overheat, I did not! Oh Hi MARKerlight!

Aelfwyrd
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#11 » Dec 10 2017 05:35

That's what's killed my custodes. Volume of attacks melee and shots. Disagree all you want that what's happened on the table.

Aelfwyrd
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#12 » Dec 10 2017 05:43

Deathwatch vs storm surge hunter killers and twin link laz from a razor back then the missles from the corvus first turn then a 5 man squad with 4 frag cannons reduced stormsurge to one wound after two rounds of shooting. Stormsurge didn't land a single wound. The venerable land raider has a 2+ armor save 5++ and a 6+ fnp. Engage them in melee to tie it up. Kroot would Excel at this. Surround the model and it can't withdraw. 20 kroot are bound to hit in melee

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2671

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#13 » Dec 10 2017 06:15

Arka0415 wrote:It doesn't need to be different from what you already have. Hammerheads and Broadsides aren't all that good, so feel free to add more Fusion Commanders, more CIBs on whatever platforms, or maybe a Stormsurge if you have one.

Stormsurge would be great with all the mortal wounds from Destroyer missiles, but since he is too large to hide chances are he will eat 8 bs2 Lascannons on turn 1 and die before he can fire a single shot.[/quote][/quote]
Yeah I'm just brainstorming here. However, I think 8 BS2 Lascannons will do a lot less than you think. Statistically those two Land Raiders should shoot 8 shots, hit 6.67, wound on 4.44, and the Stormsurge should save 2.22 of those. So you're only looking at 2D6 damage, maybe 3D6 damage. Plus you could use a Command Point on one of your saves on Turn 1. Given that the Custodes really have no other anti-tank, it could be a good option. Purely in theory though, I've never actually tried a Stormsurge against Custodes, but it seems decent on paper!

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AnonAmbientLight
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 892

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#14 » Dec 10 2017 06:24

Aelfwyrd wrote:Their shooting is definitely not garbage. They lack volume of fire and volume of units. They are better in melee than shooting but 2+ vs 3+ isn't garbage. What kills my troops is simply volume. If you put enough shots into them they will die.
When I say their shooting is "garbage" I am speaking in the general sense. My mistake. I will clarify.

The Custodian Guard have two types of melee weapons: Guardian Spears and Sentinel Blades. Each weapon has a gun on it. The Guardian Spear has a shooting profile of 24'' Rapid Fire 1 S4 AP-1 D2 and the Sentinel Blade has 12'' Pistol 2 S4 AP0 D1. All of this is at BS3 or if you are the Shield-Captain (the Firewarrior Shas'ui equivalent) BS2.

These are generally not very good shooting profiles for infantry shooting. The spear is pretty decent with its two damage profile, but it's S4 profile makes it suffer. You'll have difficulty wounding most multi-wound models and against MEQ you'll be wounding half the time. You also do not get an option to take special weapons of any kind. OP mentions that his opponent typically has the Sentinel Blade // Stormshield load out, which means most of the shots will be at 12''.

The other issue is that both weapon profiles work best when you are within 12'' range. This wouldn't be so bad if Custodians could deepstrike, but they can't as far as their index goes. This means they are either hoofing, or getting a ride in a Land Raider.

To put it all in perspective, I can take a squad of 5 Grey Knight Paladins for around the same price as a squad of a 5 man Custodian Guard. With those Paladins I can deepstrike (terminator armor) them where I need them (within 9in) and put out 20 BS3 S4 AP0 D1 shots. I can spend CP to make those 20 shots S5 AP-1 D1. That is with no special weapons.

As for the purposes of this thread, OPs main concern should be knocking out the Land Raiders ASAP. Once they are disabled he should then just keep his distance from the Cusodians as their shooting will be generally lack luster and their only real threat is melee combat. So the best advice is still to split up your forces so he has to go after multiple groups. Try to kite him as much as possible by keeping your distance and using screens to tie up his combat.

Custodians are beast in melee, but they have to get their first. Their only means of doing so is by land raider as far as I can tell and those can be taken easily with Commanders and other T'au shooting.

T.Wiseau wrote:
Aelfwyrd wrote:What kills my troops is simply volume. If you put enough shots into them they will die.


Dude thats simply not true. On average it takes roughly 400 Pulse Rifle shots to kill a 5 man Custodian Squad.


2+ armor is amazing and the Custodians being T5 W3 makes them tough to take down.

Focus on forcing 3/3++ saves on your opponent. Large volumes of shooting from AP-1 profiles would be ideal. So something along the lines of a Stormsurge with the Advance Targeting System would be great in taking out Custodians. Or maybe a stealth suit squad with ATS (although expensive) would also do well.
Last edited by AnonAmbientLight on Dec 10 2017 06:33, edited 1 time in total.
Sky IS Falling, T'au WILL Suck, Sell Me Your Models

Aelfwyrd
Shas
Posts: 13

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#15 » Dec 10 2017 10:57

I'm of the opinion that stealthsuit would be the way to go. 5 marker lights stealth suit squads with ats on pulse cannons and one or two fusion depending on squad size. Custodes are getting an hq soon as well. Guy has giant ax with a built it bolter. Custodes could deep strike in 7th and block with the guardian spear as well. Don't be surprised if gw gives them a codex and access to the 30k fw models for 40k. Grav tanks, her bikes ect. Under no circumstances should you engage the troops in melee unless you have blobs that out out volume of attacks. I honestly think flyers will do well all around. The stealthsuits benefit in melee with the -1 to hit btw.

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'Saal
Posts: 77

Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#16 » Dec 11 2017 07:34

I agree with the consensus that you want a load of -1AP weapons and plenty anti tank. Like others have said, if you crack the landraiders the comparatively softer infantry comes out and they are slow. You'll want at least 4 fusion commanders I think. That way you have a really good chance of blowing one up turn 1. If you only get 1 or don't kill one then those commanders are a great bit of bait he's going to want to split off some of his force for. Splitting his army up is imperative. With them split up, you can focus fire on 1 bit at a time and kill them as they come for you. Plenty of Crisis/Commanders with CIB's overcharging will go a long way to killing them. A missile commander could be a good shout, as would a couple of coldstars. Coldstars would easily be able to shut down those 2 landraiders with their 40" advance and charge(via Mont'ka) and their guns are perfect AP ranges for taking out custodes.

Units to consider:
QF Commanders (at least 4 if you can manage it)
Coldstar commanders (2+ if you can).
CIB Commanders/Crisis suits
Quad/Tri + ATS Missile Commander
Flamer + ATS crisis suits
Breachers @ 5-10"
Vespid
Pathfinders(focus fire your markers on particular units you need to kill)

Overall it's a tough match up, but if you use your mobility and force him to split his army up, you should be able to deal with it. Get as many deepstriking/fast units as you can and land/deploy them spread out in bunches of about 3 while keeping range. This should force him to split up because if he doesn't you'll have large chunks of your army firing on him unmolested. Your Fusion commanders should be able to destroy 1 land raider when they drop, but its no guarantee. To make them more of a 'Sticky' threat(one he cant just kill with one unit), consider shield generators on your fusion commanders. It greatly increases the odds of them surviving and I've found greater success with that loadout due to the survivability.

Hope that helps your line of thinking! Of course I know it's hard to have that kind of army if you play 100% WYSIWYG, but if you can get some of the units I suggested down on the table it'll help a lot I think. Best of luck!

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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T.Wiseau
Shas'Saal
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#17 » Dec 11 2017 10:43

Arka0415 wrote:Yeah I'm just brainstorming here. However, I think 8 BS2 Lascannons will do a lot less than you think. Statistically those two Land Raiders should shoot 8 shots, hit 6.67, wound on 4.44, and the Stormsurge should save 2.22 of those. So you're only looking at 2D6 damage, maybe 3D6 damage. Plus you could use a Command Point on one of your saves on Turn 1. Given that the Custodes really have no other anti-tank, it could be a good option. Purely in theory though, I've never actually tried a Stormsurge against Custodes, but it seems decent on paper!


The more I think about it the more sense it makes :) As you say the Stormsurge will probably survive at least one turn of doomlaserz. If I can cripple one of the Raiders with my Commanders on my first turn, the Custodians will have no way of getting to the Stormsurge since I have tons of infantry to bubblewrap it with. Stormsurges also provide a lot of ap-1 shots and mortal wounds both of which are optimal vs Custodian infantry. Maybe the Big Guy really is the way to go here?
It's not true, it's bullsh*t I did not overheat, I did not! Oh Hi MARKerlight!

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Emberkahn
Shas'Saal
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Re: Dealing with Custodes?

Post#18 » Dec 14 2017 05:53

Quad Fusion Commander (QFC). This opponent just screams QFC. Add some gun drones in for good measure with a coldstar acting as the DC Cady. Take some pathfinders for markerlight support and to ensure all your suits can drop. But, again, QFC. Like, if someone is bringing their competitive stuff, you should too. As much as your points as possible should be QFC. If you can pop both land raiders turn one before he even moves (And this is very very doable given he won't have much of a screen) you win turn one.

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