Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Orion7
Shas'Saal
Posts: 97

Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#1 » Jan 02 2018 09:48

So I've been looking at this unit and am struggling to see the downside to it. Sure its BS is poor, but in line with other non-commander suits. It seems relatively cheap points wise and carries a chunky selection of weaponry.

It's only twice as much as a crisis suit yet is tougher and carries the equivalent wounds to 3 and a bit crisis suits. Them consider the effect of the electro warfare suite the stealth drones.
Sure the main weapon adds a few points onto it but again, the fusion collider is twice the points of a fusion blaster yet has three times the shots. Then there's the ion raker which just looks hilarious with markerlight support.

Yes the drones can be shot off, but if you employ three suits you can easily corral those drones into a safety pocket behind them, which will need to be flanked in order to hit.

If led by shadowsun with a command drone and kauyon you're laughing.


So, having said all that...
What am I missing here that makes them so terrible?


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

Ricordis
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 382

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#2 » Jan 02 2018 09:57

I bought my Ghostkeel shortly before 8th was released; I play him on a regular base because of my stubborness: I bought it, I play it!
Ghostkeels are really annoying to shoot at, especially if you can place the drones out of sight.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3172

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#3 » Jan 02 2018 09:57

The Ghostkeel isn't terrible at all. However, it has the same problem that all big Tau models have right now- it's durable but doesn't output much firepower. For 200+ points it'll get you two Fusion hits on average, or 3 Ion and 2 Burst hits for 180 points. This means that using an anti-vehicle loadout it'll deal 3-4 wounds (using Fusion) on average against a regular vehicle, or 4-5 wounds on infantry (using Ion/Burst).

Sure, the Ghostkeel is great at taking fire. It just doesn't carry many useful weapons.
Last edited by Arka0415 on Jan 02 2018 10:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Orion7
Shas'Saal
Posts: 97

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#4 » Jan 02 2018 11:09

I can see it making good use of what it has with proper markerlight support (though that'd cost command points). My only real issue is (other than the character drone argument) is that the ghost keel electro warfare suite only works from 12 inches away. Whereas camouflage fields work at all ranges. Imo electro warfare should be a flat -1 to hit and the drones should have a 12 inch limit


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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GND
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 147

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#5 » Jan 02 2018 11:59

Arka0415 wrote:The Ghostkeel isn't terrible at all. However, it has the same problem that all big Tau models have right now- it's durable but doesn't output much firepower. For 200+ points it'll get you two Fusion hits on average, or 3 Ion and 2 Burst hits. This means that using an anti-vehicle loadout it'll deal 3-4 wounds (using Fusion) on average against a regular vehicle, or 2-3 wounds on infantry (using Ion/Burst).


Your stats are slightly off. The Ghostkeel caries two Burst cannons and the Dakkakeel version is cca 180 points (and you can be even cheaper with Flamers and by dropping the Target Lock). Ion/Burst + ATS loadout kills 2.6 MEQ or 4.7 GEQ per turn or average without support. That's not impressive, but not terrible either. For comparison, a 4xCIB Commander with two drones costs a little less and kills 3.3 MEQ or 6.9 GEQ.

The durable body with infiltrate is what makes it useful for me. I've been playing with the Dakkakeel more in my recent games and I'm pretty happy with it's performance. I run it with a Stealth Team and deploy them together, usually early to control enemy deployment, bait out a response and/or seize important ground. The stealths increase the overall damage output of the formation, forcing my opponents to deal with it and sometimes bring Shield Drones with them to absorb anti tank shots (and the opponent needs to kill two squads of drones, most likely out LOS, before they can engage the GK).

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NumberM
Shas'Saal
Posts: 37

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#6 » Jan 02 2018 12:03

They aren't bad but like was said before their points to firepower ratio isn't the best. Not as laughable as the Riptide but still. The best loadout is probably Ion raker + Flamers + ATS. Im taking 4 in a list to a tournament this weekend.

Co0n
Shas'Saal
Posts: 55

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#7 » Jan 02 2018 12:28

Ghostkeels are IMHO some of the best midfield units you can get, not only for Tau.
You basicly cannot shoot them reliably if you hide your drones and if charged they just fly away next turn.
They can take on heavy units or small stuff depending on your loadout.

I field 1 GK with 2 units of 3 stealth suits in evey game and my enemys hate them. Stealth suits are even hard to hit in CC!

The game is not only about Points per Firepower. A unit that is able to reliably hold objectives and take the midfield is very important!

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3172

Re: Why so much hate on the ghostkeel?

Post#8 » Jan 02 2018 10:06

GND wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:The Ghostkeel isn't terrible at all. However, it has the same problem that all big Tau models have right now- it's durable but doesn't output much firepower. For 200+ points it'll get you two Fusion hits on average, or 3 Ion and 2 Burst hits. This means that using an anti-vehicle loadout it'll deal 3-4 wounds (using Fusion) on average against a regular vehicle, or 2-3 wounds on infantry (using Ion/Burst).


Your stats are slightly off. The Ghostkeel caries two Burst cannons and the Dakkakeel version is cca 180 points (and you can be even cheaper with Flamers and by dropping the Target Lock).

My mistake, I forgot to include the points cost for the second build. Will fix.

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