Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

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warlord577
Shas
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Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#1 » Jan 11 2018 04:11

I'm going to be using an Y'vahra this weekend for the first time (against Blood Angels).

I have two units of 4 Shield Drones which I am planning to use to protect it, and a couple of units of XV8s with 6x Gun Drones ready to Manta Strike.

What advice would you give for how to keep my Shield Drones up with my Y'Vahra? Should I be looking to place the Y'Vahra with the two units of Shield Drones during deployment, then race the Y'Vahra up the board (moving out of range of the Shield Drones' saviour protocols) and use my Manta Striking teams to deploy near the Y'Vahra? This would mean that I have Gun Drones near the Y'Vahra (from the XV8 teams) rather than the Shield Drones.

Sorry if this has been answered before - I couldn't find a post specifically relating to this.

Thanks!

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Arka0415
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#2 » Jan 11 2018 04:21

warlord577 wrote:Should I be looking to place the Y'Vahra with the two units of Shield Drones during deployment, then race the Y'Vahra up the board (moving out of range of the Shield Drones' saviour protocols) and use my Manta Striking teams to deploy near the Y'Vahra?

That's the best way to do it I think! Some Shield Drones to protect against alpha strike, then support with XV8-accompanying drones at the end of your first movement phase. The XV8s can use Gun Drones or Shield Drones, based on your list and preference of course.

warlord577
Shas
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#3 » Jan 11 2018 04:38

Great, thanks! I haven't played much 8th edition, but have wanted to play more aggressively with Tau, and found the discussion in 'Archetypal Static/Agressive 2000pt. List' between you and Shas'O R'Kai very useful.

In terms of Gun Drones vs Shield Drones to come down with the XV8 squads, I am thinking that maybe it is not worth it to have Gun Drones versus Marines. I see from Mathhammer that with a markerlight and with drone controller, I will only do 3 unsaved wounds to a squad of marines with the 12 Gun Drones that would come down with the XV8s.

Got any thoughts on this?

gunrock
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#4 » Jan 11 2018 05:04

warlord577 wrote:I'm going to be using an Y'vahra this weekend for the first time (against Blood Angels).

I have two units of 4 Shield Drones which I am planning to use to protect it, and a couple of units of XV8s with 6x Gun Drones ready to Manta Strike.

What advice would you give for how to keep my Shield Drones up with my Y'Vahra? Should I be looking to place the Y'Vahra with the two units of Shield Drones during deployment, then race the Y'Vahra up the board (moving out of range of the Shield Drones' saviour protocols) and use my Manta Striking teams to deploy near the Y'Vahra? This would mean that I have Gun Drones near the Y'Vahra (from the XV8 teams) rather than the Shield Drones.

Sorry if this has been answered before - I couldn't find a post specifically relating to this.

Thanks!


Hey warlord! I'm not an expert on Y'Vahra, but I've been digging through the forums for more information on what people seem to do to make the Y'Vahra work, so I guess I'll just reiterate the bits of advice I've gleened from other peoples experiences. Hopefully, some of the veterans will weigh in with more specifics as I'm also very interested in the question:

- 6-10+ drones to protect it during deployment, it will most definitely get shot at, the more drones the better but somewhere around that number seems to about right for making sure it doesn't get killed before you get to use it

- 'Leapfrog method' basically what you were just suggesting, link up with your deep striker's to keep it protected with drones

- Mont'ka opening - This is a really cool idea a couple people have suggested, running the Y'Vahra alongside a commander (usually coldstar) so you can mont'ka first turn and advance all your drones and the Y'Vahra. This also boosts the Y'Vahra's threat range a bit and the likelihood you'll get to shoot your guns first turn and start making your points back. It also gets around needing the target lock which is icing on the cake.

- Loadout - ATS seems to be mandatory (I didn't think it, but a lot of people are adamant about it) with stimulant injector and target lock as the next picks. If you run the mont'ka opening you can safely ditch the target lock.

- The battle reports seem sort of mixed depending on the list and matchup, some people try to start in cover, some people try to get as close to the deployment line as possible at the risk of taking fire, some accounts going slow enough to not outpace drones is the right play, others suggest you should just smash into the most valuable thing in range and except the Y'Vahra dying by turn 3 because the shock factor is so significant, or on the contrary, trying to extend her life until the later turns where she becomes a wincon if your opponent has no way to deal with it. It's really hard to pin down a simple 'best practice'.

On another note, there's a couple other things worth looking at:
Y'Vahra Strategy Thread: (Y'Vahra was misspelled so search might have missed it, a bit dated, but lots of good info)
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=24791
There's a couple recent single Y'Vahra threads in 'Cadre building' that come to mind, I have one, and I know 'Aspiring Commander' has a build that was just drafted that looks sweet if you need a model list. If you check out the main Y'Vahra strategy thread or list builds many of those people have full battle reports which are really helpful.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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Arka0415
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#5 » Jan 11 2018 05:12

gunrock wrote:- Mont'ka opening - This is a really cool idea a couple people have suggested, running the Y'Vahra alongside a commander (usually coldstar) so you can mont'ka first turn and advance all your drones and the Y'Vahra. This also boosts the Y'Vahra's threat range a bit and the likelihood you'll get to shoot your guns first turn and start making your points back. It also gets around needing the target lock which is icing on the cake.

This is a great trick for giving the Y'vahra an explosive start, though I'll mention that it still doesn't help the drones much. The drones would move 14" while the Y'vahra zoomed off going up to 24"!

If you like the tactic of linking up with deep strikers, and like Forgeworld models, both the XV9 and Tigershark Fighter-Bomber are both efficient ways to get drones to drop in wherever you need them.

warlord577
Shas
Posts: 9

Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#6 » Jan 11 2018 05:21

Hey gunrock - thanks for the detailed reply, that's really helpful!

6-10+ drones to protect it during deployment, it will most definitely get shot at, the more drones the better but somewhere around that number seems to about right for making sure it doesn't get killed before you get to use it


Too many times in 40k I have experienced a model being wiped off the board before I get to use it so I definitely agree here - I have gone for 8 Shield Drones.

Mont'ka opening - This is a really cool idea a couple people have suggested, running the Y'Vahra alongside a commander (usually coldstar) so you can mont'ka first turn and advance all your drones and the Y'Vahra. This also boosts the Y'Vahra's threat range a bit and the likelihood you'll get to shoot your guns first turn and start making your points back. It also gets around needing the target lock which is icing on the cake.


I hadn't thought of this and think it's a great idea. I can see myself wanting to move the Y'Vahra twice to the extent that the original drones wouldn't be able to keep up, but the drones arriving from Manta will be around to protect it. We have a house-rule that walkers, monsters, and tanks ignore the penalty for moving and firing heavy weapons, so that makes it an easy choice to go for ATS and Stims.

The battle reports seem sort of mixed depending on the list and matchup, some people try to start in cover, some people try to get as close to the deployment line as possible at the risk of taking fire


I guess this will depend on what I see my opponent deploy. Is it wise to deploy my Y'Vahra last? If I deploy my other units first (couple fire warrior squads, pathfinders, fireblade), I'll be in a better position to judge whether I need to hide my Y'Vahra or deploy right on the line.

Cheers for the thread suggestion, I'll have a read.

warlord577
Shas
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#7 » Jan 11 2018 05:28

Arka - I have always liked the idea of the XV9 more than I have found it effective. What loadout would you suggest for it to fight MEQ?

As for the Tiger-Shark fighter Bomber, it is definitely a cool unit and I will probably use it at some point in the future, but I think I would have to drastically change my current list to make room for it for the weekend.

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Arka0415
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#8 » Jan 11 2018 05:34

warlord577 wrote:I guess this will depend on what I see my opponent deploy. Is it wise to deploy my Y'Vahra last? If I deploy my other units first (couple fire warrior squads, pathfinders, fireblade), I'll be in a better position to judge whether I need to hide my Y'Vahra or deploy right on the line.

In general, put your Manta Strike units in reserve first, then deploy units whose position seems obvious (Fire Warriors and Pathfinders in cover etc.), then deploy big things like the Y'vahra as late as possible. With 18" movement and a flamer-type weapon it can absolutely deal damage even on the first turn, so placing it in a position where it can easily hunt down enemy heavy infantry, monsters, and vehicles is really important.

warlord577 wrote:Arka - I have always liked the idea of the XV9 more than I have found it effective. What loadout would you suggest for it to fight MEQ?

It's not an amazing unit, but there's really only one good loadout- two Double-Barreled Burst Cannons and ATS. The Fusion Cascade loadout is just like a Fusion Commander but worse, and the Pulse Submunition gun is surprisingly ineffective.

With the DBBC+ATS build though, the XV9 can shoot 16 shots at S5AP-1! That means, with proper Markerlights, you're looking at 4-5 dead Space Marines, which is great, or 6-7 dead Guardsmen.

The main advantage of the XV9 is that it can be taken solo, as a "monat" if you will.

warlord577 wrote:As for the Tiger-Shark fighter Bomber, it is definitely a cool unit and I will probably use it at some point in the future, but I think I would have to drastically change my current list to make room for it for the weekend.

Of course the Tiger Shark is a colossal points investment! I don't know anyone who actually uses it. Just mentioning it as it is one of three models that can pull off this kind of drone insertion- those units are the Tiger Shark, Orca, and XV9.

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#9 » Jan 11 2018 10:04

Hello, I recently ran an XV109.
I protected her with the drones of my deployment zone first turn, second turn move her at drone's pace, third turn full advance + Manta drones, 4 turn onwards she didn't count with drone support, but she already have take down 4 Leman Russ, and was breaking havoc behind enemy lines.
In fact, for turn 4 I haven't any drones left.
But for the moment she begins to take wounds, the damage was already dealt. And although the movement profile is very affected, because she was already inbeetwen the enemy's unit, the flamer just wipe them.
Really amazing unit the XV109. I'm in love with her.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#10 » Jan 11 2018 11:01

The way I run the Y'Vahra is to start it with 6 Shield Drones and 6 Gun Drones on a flank. Depending on opponent weapon and charge ranges, he's either forward or back. Those initial drones either soak up fire or deter your opponent from even targeting it. I then zoom the guy up as fast as possible, normally getting into range of something with both weapons Turn 1. This leaves the drones behind a bit although they head towards where the big guy will be as well, but they've done their job for now. I then drop either XV8 or XV9 teams with full drones (50/50 Shield to Gun) next to the Y'Vahra. Now the big guy has his protection back. Turn 2, I get another full round of shooting and burning in. The drones that deployed next to him and survived the first go-around of SP are now back by his side, and he has another round of Saviour Protocol protection. Additionally, the enemy's shooting should be fairly weakened by this point.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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Strawless
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#11 » Jan 11 2018 02:41

CDR_Farsight wrote:The way I run the Y'Vahra is to start it with 6 Shield Drones and 6 Gun Drones on a flank. Depending on opponent weapon and charge ranges, he's either forward or back. Those initial drones either soak up fire or deter your opponent from even targeting it. I then zoom the guy up as fast as possible, normally getting into range of something with both weapons Turn 1. This leaves the drones behind a bit although they head towards where the big guy will be as well, but they've done their job for now. I then drop either XV8 or XV9 teams with full drones (50/50 Shield to Gun) next to the Y'Vahra. Now the big guy has his protection back. Turn 2, I get another full round of shooting and burning in. The drones that deployed next to him and survived the first go-around of SP are now back by his side, and he has another round of Saviour Protocol protection. Additionally, the enemy's shooting should be fairly weakened by this point.


When doing your Saviour Protocols, do you save on the Shield Drones or the Gun Drones first?

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#12 » Jan 11 2018 02:53

Strawless wrote:
CDR_Farsight wrote:The way I run the Y'Vahra is to start it with 6 Shield Drones and 6 Gun Drones on a flank. Depending on opponent weapon and charge ranges, he's either forward or back. Those initial drones either soak up fire or deter your opponent from even targeting it. I then zoom the guy up as fast as possible, normally getting into range of something with both weapons Turn 1. This leaves the drones behind a bit although they head towards where the big guy will be as well, but they've done their job for now. I then drop either XV8 or XV9 teams with full drones (50/50 Shield to Gun) next to the Y'Vahra. Now the big guy has his protection back. Turn 2, I get another full round of shooting and burning in. The drones that deployed next to him and survived the first go-around of SP are now back by his side, and he has another round of Saviour Protocol protection. Additionally, the enemy's shooting should be fairly weakened by this point.


When doing your Saviour Protocols, do you save on the Shield Drones or the Gun Drones first?


It kind of depends. If there are good targets for the Gun Drones left, I'll take it on the shields, but if there aren't really any targets that GD are good for or if it looks like my opponent is going to directly target the Drone Squad at some point then I will take it on the Gun Drones. Really it's a judgment call.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

warlord577
Shas
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#13 » Jan 12 2018 04:03

by CDR_Farsight
I then drop either XV8 or XV9 teams with full drones (50/50 Shield to Gun) next to the Y'Vahra.


What led you to the 50/50 Shield to Gun arrangement? Is it better to do this rather than have say, one squad full of Gun Drones, and another full of Shield Drones?

by Kerrygan
I protected her with the drones of my deployment zone first turn, second turn move her at drone's pace, third turn full advance + Manta drones


This is interesting, it seems a little different to the Blitzkrieg effect that I have seen people advocate. If I am understanding this properly, it seems like you wait a while before bringing the Y'Vahra into weapons range? And only bring in your Manta guys on turn 3?

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Arka0415
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#14 » Jan 12 2018 07:38

warlord577 wrote:
by Kerrygan
I protected her with the drones of my deployment zone first turn, second turn move her at drone's pace, third turn full advance + Manta drones


This is interesting, it seems a little different to the Blitzkrieg effect that I have seen people advocate. If I am understanding this properly, it seems like you wait a while before bringing the Y'Vahra into weapons range? And only bring in your Manta guys on turn 3?

I don't want to be overly negative, but pulling your punches is not what Tau want to be doing. Games get decided in turn one, maybe turn three. You can probably decide the game (from a tactical point of view) by turn three, then turns 4-5 are just cleanup. Holding units in reserve not for one turn, but for two turns is a massive waste of efficiency.

Imagine if you shot your guns and missed everything. That's essentially what happens if you hold your units back.

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CDR_Farsight
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#15 » Jan 12 2018 02:33

warlord577 wrote:
by CDR_Farsight
I then drop either XV8 or XV9 teams with full drones (50/50 Shield to Gun) next to the Y'Vahra.


What led you to the 50/50 Shield to Gun arrangement? Is it better to do this rather than have say, one squad full of Gun Drones, and another full of Shield Drones?

by Kerrygan
I protected her with the drones of my deployment zone first turn, second turn move her at drone's pace, third turn full advance + Manta drones


This is interesting, it seems a little different to the Blitzkrieg effect that I have seen people advocate. If I am understanding this properly, it seems like you wait a while before bringing the Y'Vahra into weapons range? And only bring in your Manta guys on turn 3?


I do 50/50 or 66/33 so they can’t just wipe a Gun Drone squad as easily.
To secure victory, the wise must adapt ~ Puretide

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shasocastris
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Re: Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones

Post#16 » Jan 13 2018 12:21

Arka0415 wrote:It's not an amazing unit, but there's really only one good loadout- two Double-Barreled Burst Cannons and ATS. The Fusion Cascade loadout is just like a Fusion Commander but worse, and the Pulse Submunition gun is surprisingly ineffective.

With the DBBC+ATS build though, the XV9 can shoot 16 shots at S5AP-1! That means, with proper Markerlights, you're looking at 4-5 dead Space Marines, which is great, or 6-7 dead Guardsmen.

The main advantage of the XV9 is that it can be taken solo, as a "monat" if you will.


First, the Hazard with the DBBC+ATS loadout is more effective than I think people give it credit for. I know that, point for point, a gun drone is more effective. However, the XV9 is much more tactically flexible. Having the ability to deep strike is frankly offputting for a variety of armies. Especially in objective based games, it can force units that would otherwise come forward to stay back, allowing the Tau army to deal with the enemy in a more piecemeal manner.

The other benefit of a Hazard is that it can bring 4 shield drones. This is especially useful for an Y'vahra. Rather than trying to keep the shield drones advancing with something that can move 18", you can simply drop in the Hazard and four shield drones where you need it. It's a surprisingly effective way to keep drones with the Y'vahra. Especially if you have multiple monat Hazards doing the same thing. (Of course, it sucks for KP, but nothings perfect...)

Cheers!

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