[Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 138

Re: [Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#37 » Jan 30 2018 10:49

Lostroninsoul wrote:Is it worth having some dx-4 technical drones in a list with this? The drones can savior protocols in a pinch but I like the idea of using the the y'vraha's escape thrust to retreat to be healed


Personally I've no experience in using them. However, the impression I get is that Technical drones are not quite worth the cost and they're not reliable enough. Using the escape thrust to get out of a bad spot is a very very situational thing to use. The overwhelming majority of cases it will result in a detriment to you. However I can see the technical drones possibly working nicely. I've yet to see their rules/points properly so I can't say for sure.

Are there any more experienced commanders able to weigh in on this?

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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JancoBCN
Shas'Saal
Posts: 109

Re: [Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#38 » Jan 30 2018 10:54

Lostroninsoul wrote:Is it worth having some dx technical drones in a list with this? The drones can savior protocols in a pinch but I like the idea of using the the y'vraha's escape thrust to retreat to be healed


From a strictly competitive point of view, I don't think is worth it, most of all, because you will be 3-4 turns without shooting. 2 possible scenarios occur to me:
    - Scenario 1
    You've had an exchange of fire on Turn 1, and Your Y'vahra is severly damaged (you probably did not protect her properly, or not with enough drones), so Turn 2 you go away to heal her. Then you are not shooting in either turn 2 (at all), turn 3 (only your Ionic Discharge Weapon, and that if there's any target with your Technical drones), and turn 4, because you have to again go where the battle is. And I can tell you, as a 2 Y'vahra user, if you are not shooting with your Y'vahra on turn 2 and 3, you are not winning the game, even if you are healing the Y'vahra (only on the turn after you escaped, and only an average of 1 wound per Technical Drones Unit). When you come back with the healed Y'vahra on T4, you will be limited either by movement or by having to again use the Escape Thrust to keep it killing.. You will arrive on T3 as soonest, and it will probably be too late to kill enough things to matter, because probably your opponent has been able to deal with all the other important units in your army.
    - Scenario 2
    You are on T3+ and have already killed a lot, but you have run out of drones and your Y'vahra is severly wounded. Even you are in the middle of the enemy lines (you should be, on T3), you escape to be healed, but then your opponent doesn't have to face that brutal Plasma Flamer anymore, and then you are giving him/her a chance to use 2 extra turns of their remaining biggest things, given that they do not have to deal nor face your Y'tide those 2-3 turns. Then you arrive on T5 and either you have been erased or you have won anyway (which is weird, because you just threw away 2 turns of shooting from the 25% of your army).

In any case, if you escape, don't expect your opponent to chase you, they will be happy dealing with the actual threads that you just left up front.

That tactic that you mention violates basically all the principles from this article:
1. Keep it Killing! - you are not killing anything for 2-3 turns.
2. Keep it Alive! - even though you think you are protecting her by healing her, the truth is that you will not be able to have as many drones with your technical drones as you had up front to protect her, so Lascannons /battlecannons /Prism Cannons will find it easier to wound her after she arrives to be healed.
3. Drones are your friends - same than above, you just left your important drones unprotected.
5. Learn how to make use of psychological warfare - You just freed your opponent of the constant fear that the Y'vahra inflicts while she is on the battlefield and close to the opponent's biggest things.



TLDR: No, too many turns without any shooting of a unit that NEEDS to kill as many things as possible to make the huge investment worth it.
Last edited by JancoBCN on Jan 30 2018 11:34, edited 4 times in total.

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JancoBCN
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Posts: 109

Re: [Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#39 » Jan 30 2018 11:03

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:Is it worth having some dx-4 technical drones in a list with this? The drones can savior protocols in a pinch but I like the idea of using the the y'vraha's escape thrust to retreat to be healed


Personally I've no experience in using them. However, the impression I get is that Technical drones are not quite worth the cost and they're not reliable enough. Using the escape thrust to get out of a bad spot is a very very situational thing to use. The overwhelming majority of cases it will result in a detriment to you. However I can see the technical drones possibly working nicely. I've yet to see their rules/points properly so I can't say for sure.

Are there any more experienced commanders able to weigh in on this?

R'Kai


While I haven't used any Technical drones, it has been for a good reason. The only case where a shield drone will not be just strictly better than a Technical one will be against direct mortal wounds to the Y'tide. All the other 99% of situations, you will be better by using 8p per extra wound (actually less, given their FNP 5+) than 24p per each average of 2 wounds healed every other turn (they succeed to heal on a 4+).

Regarding the Scape Thrust, I have only used once in my many games played with the Y'vahra, and it was this last Sunday. I was in a situation where I had one of my 2 Y'vahras too close to the enemy on Turn 1, but with only a 10-man guardsman unit to kill. Then my opponent had 5 psykers on Deepstrike, so I thought it would be better to have it protected for a turn.
On T2 I deployed her over a building next to a Hazard Team + 4 Shield drones, and could straight kill a leman russ, thanks to my ATS and Target lock (I did 15 wounds + 1D3 Mortal wounds to it).
It was ok, but it is extremely rare the case where you do that instead of just remain protected with the drones and move 15" instead of 18" for one turn.

I defenitely look forward of trying that more, for science! (and the greater good!) :biggrin:

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 138

Re: [Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#40 » Jan 30 2018 11:23

JancoBCN wrote:
Lostroninsoul wrote:Is it worth having some dx technical drones in a list with this? The drones can savior protocols in a pinch but I like the idea of using the the y'vraha's escape thrust to retreat to be healed


From a strictly competitive point of view, I don't think is worth it, most of all, because you will be 3-4 turns without shooting. 2 possible scenarios occur to me:
    - Scenario 1
    You've had an exchange of fire on Turn 1, and Your Y'vahra is severly damaged (you probably did not protecte her properly, or not with enough drones), so Turn 2 you go away to heal her. Then you are not shooting in either turn 2 (at all), turn 3 (only your Ionic Discharge Weapon, and that if there's any target with your Technical drones), and turn 4, because you have to again go where the battle is. And I can tell you, as a 2 Y'vahra user, if you are not shooting with your Y'vahra on turn 2 and 3, you are not winning the game, even if you are healing the Y'vahra (only on the turn after you escaped, and only an average of 1 wound per Technical Drones Unit). When you come back with the healed Y'vahra on T4, you will be limited either by movement or by having to again use the Escape Thrust to keep it killing.. You will arrive on T3 as soonest, and it will probably be too late to kill enough things to matter, because probably your opponent has been able to deal with all the other important units in your army.
    - Scenario 2
    You are on T3+ and have already killed a lot, but you have run out of drones and your Y'vahra is severly wounded. Even you are in the middle of the enemy lines (you should be, on T3), you escape to be healed, but then your opponent doesn't have to face that brutal Plasma Flamer anymore, and then you are giving him/her a chance to use 2 extra turns of their biggest things, given that they do not have to deal nor face your Y'tide those 2-3 turns. Then you arrive on T5 and either you have been erased or you have won anyway (which is weird, because you just threw away 2 turns of 25% of your army).

In any case, if you escape, don't expect your opponent to chase you, they will be happy dealing with the actual threads that you just left up front.

That tactic that you mention violates basically all the principles from this article:
1. Keep it Killing! - you are not killing anything for 2-3 turns.
2. Keep it Alive! - even though you think you are protecting her by healing her, the truth is that you will not be able to have as many drones with your technical drones as you had up front to protect her, so Lascannons /battlecannons /Prism Cannons will find it easier to wound her after she arrives.
3. Drones are your friends - same than above, you just left your important drones unprotected.
5. Learn how to make use of psychological warfare - You just freed your opponent of the constant fear that the Y'vahra inflicts while she is on the battlefield and close to the opponent's biggest things.



TLDR: No, too many turns without any shooting of a unit that NEEDS to kill as many things as possible to make the huge investment worth it.


This seems to go in line to what I was thinking really. I didn't want to discount the idea with no experience of using them at all but it does seem to go against every rule of playing with the Y'Vahra. In fact, after seeing it written like this, I can't see a use for technical drones at all. They either need to be made an auto heal rather than on a 4+, or made cheaper. The only way I see these working is to run them up the board behind the Y'Vahra in hope to get near enough to heal it.

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Lostroninsoul
Shas'Saal
Posts: 316

Re: [Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#41 » Jan 30 2018 01:13

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:The only way I see these working is to run them up the board behind the Y'Vahra in hope to get near enough to heal it.

R'Kai


I have a Y-tide coming to me, after reading this article convinced me to invest in one. I have have 6 dx-4 technical drones. I'll try them out with the strategy of trying to get them to back up Y-tide as back field support. Escape thrust away does seem a little too niche as a reliable tactic.

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Aedeeg
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 30

Re: [Article Submission] The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#42 » Feb 01 2018 10:45

The Y'vahra performed very well for me at LVO. One of my only losses was against Aeldaari running 22 dark reapers and it managed to take out 10 of them and a wave serpent before dying. I would basically have it surrounded by shield and gun drones, call Mont'ka first turn and advance the blob up and start picking stuff off. The overwatch with it scares the sh*t out of most opponents. It also has enough movement to get around units and slay warlords if there is board space. Always advance your shield drones to keep up with it. I would start by pre measuring where 8" from what you to shoot was, then measure my Y'vahra's move distance and where the base needed to be and start advancing shield drones to be within 3" of that area. For my next list I'm go8ng to try 2 Y'vahra's, 2 units of 12 shield drones, 2 ethereals on hover drones and a bunch of units of 9 gun drones with fireblades.

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