The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Shas'O R'Kai
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The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#1 » Jan 12 2018 07:03

EDIT: Updated 15/01/18

Hi all, just thought I'd weigh in with what I've found works for me when it comes to the Y'Vahra Riptide! My favourite model in all respects, this monster can win battles single handedly and strike fear into the hearts of any that dare threaten the greater good. So here's my take on how to best make use of it's power.

Of course what I put here is no where near comprehensive and there are probably things I've overlooked, but I think there are a few golden rules that can help win you games if you can stick to them. So without further adue I'll go through the approaches/tactics that I think help you get the most bang for your buck.

Golden rules

1. Keep it Killing! - This may seem like a no brainer, but try to ensure the Y'Vahra is going after your opponents biggest targets. It's more than capable of killing an Imperial Knight in one volley, nevermind the potential overwatch, so don't be scared to pit it against the scary units in the game (as long as you keep it with some support). In turns 1-3 this is really important, but by turn 4 it will either be dead, or you should have cleaned up most of the big threats against you so should look to use the Y'Vahra to help take/clear objectives. Once you've pulled the trigger on this thing you want to make sure you're doing as much damage as possible.

2. Keep it alive! - This is one of the most important ones. This unit has the most reliable killing potential of any unit I've seen (including primarchs), but it isn't doing any killing if it's dead. If you have a Y'Vahra in your army, you build around it. Simply keeping it alive will keep the game in your favour most of the time. Take plenty of drones to go with it, and don't launch it after a juicy target if that's going to put it way out of position and get it killed. Lastly, try not to be scared to get stuck in with it. You can keep it back for a turn to kill/weaken it's major predators (more on this later) but 2 turns of inactivity is rarely worth it.

3. Drones are your friends - This one links to the second one, but that's because it's vital. The Y'Vahra loves drones. Probably more than any other unit in our whole faction. Keep these best friends together at all times if you can (I recommend no lower than 10, and preferably 15-20). Drones are the number 1 way to extend your beautiful Y'Vahra's lifespan. It's a golden rule because of this. As a bonus, these lil gun Frisbees can really help with your anti-horde potential.

4. Get the little guys - This might seem counter intuitive and contradictory of rule 1, but this one actually applies to the rest of your army. Other than your QFC's and maybe a Crisis team, I've found that focusing everything else on killing anything that's in range and effective at killing drones is a very valid tactic. That blob of 30 guardsmen with 120 shots is gunna do 1.388 unsaved wounds to your Y'Vahra with stims. Your drones however are gunna bite it. Ensuring as much enemy anti infantry in range of the drones is dead helps keeps them alive to protect the Y'Vahra from the big long range guns.

5. Learn how to make use of psychological warfare - This sounds weird, but in some games, the most damage the Y'Vahra has done is making the opponent make poor plays/mistakes. This is because the Y'Vahra is a monster. Once your opponent knows what it can do, you can be sure it's going to affect his gameplay. It's hard to quantify, and doesn't always work, but just the presence of this model will affect your opponents play. Make use of this! There are so many ways in which you can do this, and it depends on a lot of factors, but done right it will win games. Just one example; play defensively against an assault based army to ensure there's a nice 8" bubble your opponent wants to go nowhere near, because nobody wants to be taking this things overwatch. This is my favourite part of the Y'Vahra, being able to get creative and shepherd your opponent simply by the way you position it.

Deployment:

Vs Gunline/Shooting:
If it's a really shooty opponent, you'll probably rather deploy it out of line of sight if you can, even if it means going further back. This gives time for your QFC's to come in and wreck some of the heavy firepower they have. If no good LOS blocking is there, then cover him in drones while keeping out of effective range of the scariest guns they have if possible. Good shooting armies like AdMech and AM are easily capable of wiping all the drones and the Y-tide off the board in turn one, so any shooting denial is absolutely imperative. The Y'Vahra is often the only big target you have so if you can force them to shoot lascannons at drones or smaller suits, then that's a win. If you have a coldstar, that's a great accompaniment to the Y'Vahra because he can deploy at the back or wherever else is safest for the big guy, call Mont'ka to get the Y'Vahra in the fight that bit sooner, and then advance 40" to get wherever he needs to go. If you get first turn, then only move the Y'Vahra out to attack if you're confident you'll remove a good majority of the firepower that's capable of killing it in their turn, otherwise don't be afraid to hold it back and let your commanders/crisis do some work. If you go second and you've managed to mitigate their firepower then it should survive without any problems. Depending on LOS and the range of your opponents guns, then you either want to keep held back till turn 2 or advance out and start killing. If you have LOS blocking your Y'Vahra from being targeted then it can be good to keep him safe there until you've had a turn of shooting to take out some big threats. If not, then you probably can't afford to take a 2nd turn of shooting so try to advance forward as fast as possible to get in range of kills.

Vs Assault:
Against an assault army, I've found that putting him behind a decent screen as close to the opponent as possible works well. Naturally accompanied by 10+ drones. This way, if they get 1st turn they can't get their combat alpha strike off to hurt the Y-tide and even if they kill your screen, a fully functional Y'Vahra is going to waste pretty much whatever is in front of it and you can counter drop your commanders/crisis. From here, you can feel free to move off to engage the biggest threat they have with the big guy. The Mont'ka strategy works wonders here, letting you get to almost any target. If they hold back a lot or all of their alpha strike, then shoot em up. Now they voluntarily decided to have a shooting match with you as an assault based army, have fun. If you win the roll off and get 1st turn then don't take it. I've found that against this type of army, you want to go 2nd because then you can react to whatever they do. If you go first then you probably have to drop your suits before they have to drop their assault units, which will then probably charge and murder you. Sure you let them get some shooting but you brought enough drones didn't you? :D I usually deploy with my big juicy Y'Vahra right up the front as an enticing target to try and draw out those nasty choppy units. As long as you have a decent screen of drones/firewarriors then you're 100% safe. A niche problem can occur when there's an assulty army in transports with good guns that outrange you. In that case, I find going as aggressive as possible can work, but it's a rough match up. Something like Eldar of any sort is gunna be a headache. The boon however is that if they have charging units they tend to be quite small, so you can actually jump out there and force them to either make 9" charges against you, or eat the 3D6 auto flamer in overwatch.

Vs Balanced:
I find this match up the most straight forward because it's so hard to have a rule of thumb for. Your deployment depends on the ratio of shooting and assault they have. If it's a 50/50 split you want to go first here most likely. Deploy similarly to how you would vs heavy assault (close as possible with a screen) and get out there as soon as possible. Mont'ka helps here. They probably don't have enough dedicated guns to take out your drones and the Y'Vahra so you should be ok to move out and be hyper aggressive. Keep some commanders/crisis back to be able to counter drop any deep striking assault units an you should be ok. If you get turn 2 then you'll weather some firepower, maybe take some charges, and your screen probably won't guarantee safety since they might have the guns to deal with it. Either way you can still be hyper aggressive but it might be harder since you've had to take a beating before you can act. Counter drop with commanders/crisis against key units and focus the big threats with the Y'Vahra.

Loadout:
This is fairly straightforward for most, but I think the main debate is whether or not you take Target Lock or Stims. If you have one Y'Vahra I recommend ATS(auto take) and Stims. You should have enough markerlights to light up whatever target the Ionic Discharge Cannon is pointing at for the first few turns, and the Stims give you that extra bit of survivability which can be paramount in staying alive. Target Lock is still certainly a great choice. It just depends on the rest of your army and your markerlight dependency. If you have two then you definitely want a Target Lock on both. You have enough threat that you want both of them having maximum killing power and there are so many points tied up with them that there may not be enough for markerlights to guarantee that 3 you need.

To Nova Charge or not to Nova Charge:
You Nova charge. Almost always, and almost always the guns. The other uses of the Nova reactor are very situational, however there may be uses for them. I'll overview the uses for it here.
Nova Guns - In general you want to Nova charge the guns to make sure you Keep it Killing (Golden rule 1!), because without Nova Charging the guns, the Y'Vahra goes from "terrifyingly destructive" to merely "destructive". It's still good, but loses 30-50% of it's firepower.
Nova Shield - 3+ inv is tasty, and you can definitely pop this if it looks like you're going to get smashed by a 10 man Assault terminator squad. It might just keep it alive long enough for a nearby Crisis team to lend help and get you out of that bad position. However, it's debatable whether this is worth it considering the Nova profile on the guns lasts for overwatch, which results in a couple extra dead terminators. As said before, it's situational and I prefer the offensive Nova over the defensive one.
Nova Jump - Again, this is super situational. This will probably only be used at the end of the game when you're Y'Vahra is limping along on it's last few wounds and you absolutely need to take that objective on the other side of the board. Otherwise it's never getting used. When you come back in you can't fire the Phased Plasma Flamer (out of range) which makes up about 2/3 - 3/4 of it's damage. So essentially you skip 2 turns of shooting.

Assault Phase:
This can be a really useful phase for the Y'Vahra, and indeed any of our units (especially those with FLY). The Y'Vahra is T7 with a 2+, 5(4)++ save, so it's a tough cookie. Definitely don't be scared to eat some overwatch if it means you can charge into a Leman Russ/Landraider/Devastator Squad. If there aren't any enemy units geared for combat within charge threat range, then absolutely feel free to do this. It effectively shuts down another shooting unit (without FLY). Of course this can be done by any of our units, but the Y'Vahra is unique in that it will almost always be in range to do so. However, if there are enemy combat units that can hurt the Y'Vahra that you didn't manage to kill, refrain from assault and hope they're stupid enough to charge you. If you don't think that the unit(s) can kill you it can still be worth charging that shooty unit to deny that firepower. They'll either fall back, in which case you get your overwatch, or they won't and the combat unit will get in unmolested. It 100% depends on the situation and whether you think your opponent will attempt a charge on you in flamer range.

Additional thoughts:
I think this model is possibly one of the coolest in concept, design, and gameplay in the whole game, and I think anyone that can get their hands on one should do so. Even proxy it and see how it goes. It's so much fun and can really change the way you play. A few last tactical notes are:
- Have Crisis teams or XV9's come down with their drones to resupply the Y'Vahra with more protection until the drones that started next to it can catch up. This is discussed in greater detail over in the "Y'Vahra Movement - Keeping it protected with drones" thread. http://www.advancedtautactica.com/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=27098
- If you roll a 1 on one of the dice that determines the number of flamer shots, it's almost always worth a CP re-roll.
- The flamer is a good 2/3 - 3/4 of the damage. If it's a choice between advancing to get in flamer range or not advancing and using the cannon, it's usually better to advance for the flamer to be used.

Thanks so much for reading and I hope this gave you some insight on how to get the most out of the Y'Vahra. I look forward to hearing any comments or tactical suggestions you may have!

Tau'va!

R'Kai
Last edited by Shas'O R'Kai on Jan 15 2018 11:29, edited 3 times in total.
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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nic
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#2 » Jan 13 2018 05:40

I think that is an excellent article which should be included in the sticky introduction article.

The general thrust of the article - the Y'Vahra justifies building a list around it and works best when you do - is in my opinion spot-on.

Perhaps because I have mostly been using mine against really tough AM opposition so far I would really emphasise just how much the Coldstar and the Y'Vahra are best buddies. The Coldstar is perfect at clearing a path for the Y'Vahra and its drones as it carries exactly the right weapons and can bring a Drone Controller so the drone swarm can better clear away the infantry that threaten them. I feel like these two units complement each other very nicely. Also being able to clear out the chaff lets the Y'Vahra get stuck in on the hard targets, its weapon ranges are so limited that an infantry screen can physically prevent it from getting a shot in sometimes.

On point 3 I have found it totally worthwhile leaving a unit of Vespid in reserves for a turn or two - the Y'Vahra is such a wrecking ball that it tends to induce positional mistakes in opponents and the Vespid are a great unit to exploit that. They are also really good at countering units which are a threat to a Y'Vahra but which perhaps it does not want to make its primary target - such as Tempestus Plasma squads. The drones eat the initial hit from these units then the Vespid drop down to eliminate them before they can really hurt the Y'Vahra. Crisis suits could also do this but they are more expensive so leaving them off-table as an implied threat has more of an opportunity cost.

Having reflected on those games my feeling is for a Y'Vahra army build the gun drones are a largely a better pick than shield drones. I think next game I will stick 2 shield drones in each squad. I find that the firepower directed straight at the drones tends to be AP 0 anyway and the ability to clear out the shooting chaff puts me in a better position by turns 2/3 than having slightly more durable drones. Always remember that drones locked in combat can still use Saviour Protocols and do not be afraid to lock enemy units in combat with drones to shut down their shooting.

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#3 » Jan 13 2018 01:52

nic wrote:I think that is an excellent article which should be included in the sticky introduction article.

The general thrust of the article - the Y'Vahra justifies building a list around it and works best when you do - is in my opinion spot-on.


Thanks very much! I really appreciate the feedback :) I think it's important to realise that the Y'Vahra is like any other Tau unit, without proper support/synergy it's never going to perform. Such a big model will have high risk high reward so ensuring you minimise the risk is imperative!

nic wrote:Perhaps because I have mostly been using mine against really tough AM opposition so far I would really emphasise just how much the Coldstar and the Y'Vahra are best buddies. The Coldstar is perfect at clearing a path for the Y'Vahra and its drones as it carries exactly the right weapons and can bring a Drone Controller so the drone swarm can better clear away the infantry that threaten them. I feel like these two units complement each other very nicely. Also being able to clear out the chaff lets the Y'Vahra get stuck in on the hard targets, its weapon ranges are so limited that an infantry screen can physically prevent it from getting a shot in sometimes.


From my experience I totally agree. AM are a tough match up for us in general and their screening potential is almost unmatched. The Coldstar can really help clear those screens and assault them to tie them up and kill a couple extra. I actually like running two for that purpose! Gives loads of mobility too.

nic wrote:On point 3 I have found it totally worthwhile leaving a unit of Vespid in reserves for a turn or two - the Y'Vahra is such a wrecking ball that it tends to induce positional mistakes in opponents and the Vespid are a great unit to exploit that. They are also really good at countering units which are a threat to a Y'Vahra but which perhaps it does not want to make its primary target - such as Tempestus Plasma squads. The drones eat the initial hit from these units then the Vespid drop down to eliminate them before they can really hurt the Y'Vahra. Crisis suits could also do this but they are more expensive so leaving them off-table as an implied threat has more of an opportunity cost.


I actually really like this idea! I'd have never though of that so thanks! Even 2 squads of 5 is enough to help punish a mistake and really doesnt cost much. Either that or another CIB commander. What I like about the vespid though is that people never think of them as a big threat so they're much more likely to either forget about them or not fully consider what they can do. Excellent observation that I look forward to trying out!

nic wrote:Having reflected on those games my feeling is for a Y'Vahra army build the gun drones are a largely a better pick than shield drones. I think next game I will stick 2 shield drones in each squad. I find that the firepower directed straight at the drones tends to be AP 0 anyway and the ability to clear out the shooting chaff puts me in a better position by turns 2/3 than having slightly more durable drones. Always remember that drones locked in combat can still use Saviour Protocols and do not be afraid to lock enemy units in combat with drones to shut down their shooting.


Again I agree with this sort of setup. Having a couple shield drones per squad can do a lot of work while retaining some mobile firepower. I think the inclusion of the gun drones helps with the general lack of anti-infantry a Y'Vahra based army can sometimes have. Drones in combat against guard actually perform really well from my experience!

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and feedback. Do you have any suggestions for how to improve it?

Thanks again,

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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nic
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#4 » Jan 13 2018 03:18

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:
Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and feedback. Do you have any suggestions for how to improve it?

Thanks again,

R'Kai


i think some more discussion of the Nova Charge. Realistically we can mention them all but if you are not getting the Y'Vahra into 8" of a valuable target and Nova Charging the weapons every turn then it is not doing its job. Reinforce the point that this very expensive model needs to be putting out damage on valuable targets every turn - keeping it alive for 1 more turn by keeping it out of trouble and out of range for 2 turns is probably a bad trade on this unit.

Also: the main source of damage output is more often than not the flamer. If necessary run to get that flamer into range - most of the time. Do not be afraid to go into close combat to tie up a dangerous enemy shooting unit, the Y'Vahra is a big tough unit that wants to spend every turn within reasonable charging distance of the enemy so you had better be comfortable with getting it stuck in.

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Arka0415
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#5 » Jan 13 2018 09:19

nic wrote:f you are not getting the Y'Vahra into 8" of a valuable target and Nova Charging the weapons every turn then it is not doing its job.

Honestly this is the best advice you can give. About not just the Y'vahra, really any unit. Units need to be relevant and performing their roles every turn. Maximize relevance, effectiveness, and firepower every turn. That's why I mentioned the idea of "firing on all cylinders" in the other thread.

Some months ago I faced a Mechanicum player in the Konor campaign, they spread out their melee units in their backfield to prevent my deep-strikers from landing. Sure that prevents me from using Manta Strike, but it prevents them from doing anything. No matter how many Kastelans or Knights they have if your opponent doesn't utilize the full effectiveness of their army they will lose.

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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#6 » Jan 14 2018 10:39

Arka0415 wrote:
nic wrote:f you are not getting the Y'Vahra into 8" of a valuable target and Nova Charging the weapons every turn then it is not doing its job.

Honestly this is the best advice you can give. About not just the Y'vahra, really any unit. Units need to be relevant and performing their roles every turn. Maximize relevance, effectiveness, and firepower every turn. That's why I mentioned the idea of "firing on all cylinders" in the other thread.



I find it is especially true of an expensive big-hitting unit like a Y'Vahra. Leaving a unit of stealth suits chilling on an objective for a turn or two might well be the right thing to do. I really struggle to imagine when I would not want my Y'vahra lighting up a high value target every turn. Similarly if I do not see the benefit in nova charging the weapons then I have probably played it into a poor position where it cannot hit a sufficiently valuable target.

So while the advice is generally good I do feel it is particularly applicable to the Y'vahra. It is hugely sensitive to good/bad positioning and it would be easy to lose a game simply by chasing a juicy target with it only to find it out of position and unable to engage anything worthwhile the next turn.

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Arka0415
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#7 » Jan 14 2018 07:05

nic wrote:I find it is especially true of an expensive big-hitting unit like a Y'Vahra. Leaving a unit of stealth suits chilling on an objective for a turn or two might well be the right thing to do.

True- with Stealthsuits (and maybe Fire Warriors) we have examples of units that even when used with maximum efficiency don't put out all that much damage. I mean with all possible buffs considered a Stealthsuit unit might be able to kill 5-6 Guardsmen but normally you're just looking at 2-3. Otherwise though, our heavy hitters- Y'vahras, Commanders, XV8s, and Stormsurges- really should be used to maximum efficiency.

nic wrote:So while the advice is generally good I do feel it is particularly applicable to the Y'vahra. It is hugely sensitive to good/bad positioning and it would be easy to lose a game simply by chasing a juicy target with it only to find it out of position and unable to engage anything worthwhile the next turn.

This is also a good point, more relevant to Y'vahras and Flamer XV8s but more relevant now than in previous editions with the loss of JSJ and the supremacy of short-ranged guns. It's easy to end up "out of position" now.

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#8 » Jan 15 2018 04:52

nic wrote: i think some more discussion of the Nova Charge. Realistically we can mention them all but if you are not getting the Y'Vahra into 8" of a valuable target and Nova Charging the weapons every turn then it is not doing its job. Reinforce the point that this very expensive model needs to be putting out damage on valuable targets every turn - keeping it alive for 1 more turn by keeping it out of trouble and out of range for 2 turns is probably a bad trade on this unit.


Ah, I can't believe I forgot to discuss the nova charge options! haha I think I just assumed that everyone would know that you're using it on the weapons to get the max damage possible, however sometimes the other options can be really helpful.

I think that's another good point that I should clarify; that keeping it alive at the cost of not doing anything for more than a turn is a waste. Staying back for a turn to clear out threats first is very different to keeping it alive at all costs! Rather you should be attempting to keep it alive as best you can while keeping damage output as high as possible.

nic wrote: Also: the main source of damage output is more often than not the flamer. If necessary run to get that flamer into range - most of the time. Do not be afraid to go into close combat to tie up a dangerous enemy shooting unit, the Y'Vahra is a big tough unit that wants to spend every turn within reasonable charging distance of the enemy so you had better be comfortable with getting it stuck in.


Another good point I'll edit into the post. Indeed the flamer is the primary source of damage by a long way in my experience. Certainly the most reliable! I was also going to make a point that a roll of a 1 on the flamer shots is a great use of a command re-roll. An extra 1-5 shots on that flamer can be the difference between a dead unit and a living one. Regarding combat, I think this is quite nuanced and should also be included in the post. In general I've found that I don't want it in combat vs assault armies (or if it's near a nasty combat unit) so I can utilise the overwatch. Of course your point stands if you're up against a shooting unit. Shutting down that firepower may as well be a dead unit for the opponents next turn.

So to summarise:
- add in a "Nova Charge" category
- clarify the importance of staying alive at the cost of damage output
- Including a few sentences about the flamer being the primary damage output and that using a command point on it is very worthwhile. Also that advancing to get in flamer range is usually(always?) better than only using the Cannon.
- An "Assault Phase" section.

If you have any comments on the above list then let me know! Otherwise I'll work on updating the post.

R'Kai

EDIT: - Seeing the other posts talk about positioning, I'll work in a section about that aswell! Brilliant feedback already :D
Last edited by Shas'O R'Kai on Jan 15 2018 05:02, edited 1 time in total.
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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#9 » Jan 15 2018 04:59

Arka0415 wrote:
nic wrote:f you are not getting the Y'Vahra into 8" of a valuable target and Nova Charging the weapons every turn then it is not doing its job.

Honestly this is the best advice you can give. About not just the Y'vahra, really any unit. Units need to be relevant and performing their roles every turn. Maximize relevance, effectiveness, and firepower every turn. That's why I mentioned the idea of "firing on all cylinders" in the other thread.

Some months ago I faced a Mechanicum player in the Konor campaign, they spread out their melee units in their backfield to prevent my deep-strikers from landing. Sure that prevents me from using Manta Strike, but it prevents them from doing anything. No matter how many Kastelans or Knights they have if your opponent doesn't utilize the full effectiveness of their army they will lose.


Hi Arka, thanks for the feedback! Do you think it's worth including a small section on "Playstyle"? For example, including an emphasis on a very aggressive playstyle to ensure that the Y'Vahra is "firing on all cylinders". As I said in my reply to nic, I'll clarify my point that staying back for 2/3 turns isn't going to be winning any games because you're doing no damage with it!

Let me know what you think :)

R'Kai
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Arka0415
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#10 » Jan 15 2018 05:51

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Hi Arka, thanks for the feedback! Do you think it's worth including a small section on "Playstyle"? For example, including an emphasis on a very aggressive playstyle to ensure that the Y'Vahra is "firing on all cylinders".

A section on playstyle could definitely be useful. I like the way your guide is already formatted, so really the emphasis on aggressive play should be included in the "golden rules" section. Best to keep the guide tight and accessible. Maybe change the "kill the big ones" point to just "keep it killing" or something, focusing on aggressive play and especially the Y'vahra's role as a heavy unit counter?

Actually, you could add some nice flow to the "golden rules" section like this:

1. Keep it killing! The Y'vahra should be used aggressively and...

2. Keep it alive! In fact, the best way to keep your Y'vahra killing is to keep it alive...

3. Drones are your friends! Drones are an excellent way to extend the lifespan of your Y'vahra...

4. Get the little guys! The drones protect the Y'vahra, but remember the drones need to stay alive too...

5. Psychological warfare! Finally, the most damage the Y'vahra can do is making your opponent make mistakes...

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#11 » Jan 15 2018 06:52

Arka0415 wrote:
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:Hi Arka, thanks for the feedback! Do you think it's worth including a small section on "Playstyle"? For example, including an emphasis on a very aggressive playstyle to ensure that the Y'Vahra is "firing on all cylinders".

A section on playstyle could definitely be useful. I like the way your guide is already formatted, so really the emphasis on aggressive play should be included in the "golden rules" section. Best to keep the guide tight and accessible. Maybe change the "kill the big ones" point to just "keep it killing" or something, focusing on aggressive play and especially the Y'vahra's role as a heavy unit counter?

Actually, you could add some nice flow to the "golden rules" section like this:

1. Keep it killing! The Y'vahra should be used aggressively and...

2. Keep it alive! In fact, the best way to keep your Y'vahra killing is to keep it alive...

3. Drones are your friends! Drones are an excellent way to extend the lifespan of your Y'vahra...

4. Get the little guys! The drones protect the Y'vahra, but remember the drones need to stay alive too...

5. Psychological warfare! Finally, the most damage the Y'vahra can do is making your opponent make mistakes...


I actually really like this idea and I think that the reorder of the rules makes it flow more nicely while also putting more of an emphasis on an aggressive playstyle by listing "Keep it killing" before "Keep it alive". I'll update the 'golden rules' to this kind of format and add in the sections about Nova charging and assault.

I was also thinking about adding a "Unit Synergies" section as well but I don't know if that'll make it too bloated? Could be really useful though.

What do you think?

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Arka0415
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#12 » Jan 15 2018 07:28

Shas'O R'Kai wrote:I actually really like this idea and I think that the reorder of the rules makes it flow more nicely while also putting more of an emphasis on an aggressive playstyle by listing "Keep it killing" before "Keep it alive". I'll update the 'golden rules' to this kind of format and add in the sections about Nova charging and assault.

I was also thinking about adding a "Unit Synergies" section as well but I don't know if that'll make it too bloated? Could be really useful though.

Sounds good then! The only two real "synergies" I think are XV8s and XV9s, since they refill the Y'vahra's drones in the midfield via manta strike, help clear targets around the Y'vahra, and are likewise also protected by the Y'vahra. With that in mind though, these synergies are really more part of the drones section, right?

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Posts: 79

Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#13 » Jan 15 2018 08:12

Arka0415 wrote:
Shas'O R'Kai wrote:I actually really like this idea and I think that the reorder of the rules makes it flow more nicely while also putting more of an emphasis on an aggressive playstyle by listing "Keep it killing" before "Keep it alive". I'll update the 'golden rules' to this kind of format and add in the sections about Nova charging and assault.

I was also thinking about adding a "Unit Synergies" section as well but I don't know if that'll make it too bloated? Could be really useful though.

Sounds good then! The only two real "synergies" I think are XV8s and XV9s, since they refill the Y'vahra's drones in the midfield via manta strike, help clear targets around the Y'vahra, and are likewise also protected by the Y'vahra. With that in mind though, these synergies are really more part of the drones section, right?


This is a good point, but I think there are more combos that we can work in and a couple of little tactics that require a couple units to work. I think it's more leaning towards army composition than true synergy though. The only true synergy I can think of is the XV8/9, Drones and Coldstar. I'll maybe include it as a last small section just as a few sentences and see how it reads.

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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Shas'O R'Kai
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#14 » Jan 17 2018 05:27

Initial post updated with suggested change!
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

Kerrygan
Shas'Saal
Posts: 80

Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#15 » Jan 17 2018 07:51

Awesome thread. Can you clarify please if the Nova overcharge both weapons or a single one?
I was playing that it overcharge only one.
Thank you.

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JancoBCN
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#16 » Jan 17 2018 08:54

Kerrygan wrote:Awesome thread. Can you clarify please if the Nova overcharge both weapons or a single one?
I was playing that it overcharge only one.
Thank you.


It actually overcharges both. It had been even asked directly to ForgeWorld, althoug I don't remember in which post was said. If you analyze carefully the wording makes sense, though, so both it is! :biggrin:

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Arka0415
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Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#17 » Jan 17 2018 09:05

JancoBCN wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:Awesome thread. Can you clarify please if the Nova overcharge both weapons or a single one?
I was playing that it overcharge only one.
Thank you.


It actually overcharges both. It had been even asked directly to ForgeWorld, althoug I don't remember in which post was said. If you analyze carefully the wording makes sense, though, so both it is! :biggrin:

It can definitely fire both, I think someone got the info from FW a few months ago.

That said though, when the Y'vahra's 8th Edition rules came out, I was sure they were a mistake. I mean, the Riptide's Nova Charge can be best described as a modest improvement over the originl profile. The Y'vahra's, on the other hand, supercharges the weapons to monstrosities such vicious power that the standard profiles seem useless by comparison.

The main culprit is the Ionic Discharge Cannon. Without Nova Charge the IDC will deal a healthy 0.83 wounds on a Rhino. With Nova Charge, that number boosts to a colossal 6.25. That's 753% damage. What.

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Shas'O R'Kai
Shas'Saal
Posts: 79

Re: The Y'Vahra - A tactica

Post#18 » Jan 17 2018 11:22

Arka0415 wrote:
JancoBCN wrote:
Kerrygan wrote:Awesome thread. Can you clarify please if the Nova overcharge both weapons or a single one?
I was playing that it overcharge only one.
Thank you.


It actually overcharges both. It had been even asked directly to ForgeWorld, althoug I don't remember in which post was said. If you analyze carefully the wording makes sense, though, so both it is! :biggrin:

It can definitely fire both, I think someone got the info from FW a few months ago.

That said though, when the Y'vahra's 8th Edition rules came out, I was sure they were a mistake. I mean, the Riptide's Nova Charge can be best described as a modest improvement over the originl profile. The Y'vahra's, on the other hand, supercharges the weapons to monstrosities such vicious power that the standard profiles seem useless by comparison.

The main culprit is the Ionic Discharge Cannon. Without Nova Charge the IDC will deal a healthy 0.83 wounds on a Rhino. With Nova Charge, that number boosts to a colossal 6.25. That's 753% damage. What.


When you break down the numbers on the Ionic Discharge Cannon, that seems insane! When you consider that the flamer gets a 33% boost on it's nova profile too (from an already monstrous gun) it becomes more obvious why there's not much point to Nova charging for the other abilities. I think instead of the redeploy ability I'd love to see a Double/+10" move range or something. That would be an actual good use of a Nova charge to get in range/take an objective. The shield should just be a flat 3++ on a Nova. Then again, it's not like the Y'Vahra needs many more buffs haha

R'Kai
Playing with a short reach since 2007 :crafty:

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