Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
Lore
Shas
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Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#1 » Jan 20 2018 04:05

I was bidding on an old set of Devilfish + 10 Pathfinders set on ebay and thought clearly the purpose of such a mechanised unit would be to either contest objectives or capture a good vantage point for markerlighting?

Then I thought no, capturing an objective is down to Breachers as objective based Pathfinders will have redundant markerlights, that's 3/8 of their points cost going to waste. Further although they may eventually be in cover they have weaker armour and can not benefit from a guardian drone, but they do have the 3 ion rifle option to boost their damage potential which breachers do not and the recon drone to reduce objective defenders cover in the first place.

So if I win the auction I think I will put a Breacher team 10 + Carde Fireblade and a guardian drone in the Devilfish for the steal objective, mechanised role and build the Pathfinders as a 5 man team with 3 rail rifles & a recon drone, maybe add 4 pop up markerlight drones, for marking & sniping from the backfield. :)

What would you do? What do you use to steal objectives, do you even use Devilfish and mechanised infantry? :-?

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
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Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#2 » Jan 20 2018 04:29

The way I see it, holding objectives and pushing the enemy off objectives are roles done by two different units. We Tau don't have any units that can smash the opposition aside and then just camp on an objective. Rather, we'd prefer to destroy the enemy defenders of an objective using battlesuits or other heavy-hitters, then move in with troops later to take it. Use elites to shift units off objectives, then move in with troops and transports to capture.

If you want all-in-one units that can take objectives, then you'll need to look elsewhere. Coldstars, Piranhas, Kroot, and Vespid are the units you'd need to look at in those cases.

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Draco023
Shas'Saal
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Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#3 » Jan 20 2018 08:40

What is the purpose of the Fireblade in the fish? Breachers don't benefit from volley fire. If it's the marker light, consider Darkstrider, same BS and only 3 points more, but the breachers could use his structural analyzer. You do lose a bit of durability in the armor save, to be fair. If all you want is a marker light, maybe the farsight marksman, half the price with great cover save and only slightly worse BS.
It's still a risky tactic, like Arka said, that's not really the forte of our troops.

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Arka0415
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Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#4 » Jan 20 2018 08:54

Draco023 wrote:What is the purpose of the Fireblade in the fish? Breachers don't benefit from volley fire. If it's the marker light, consider Darkstrider, same BS and only 3 points more, but the breachers could use his structural analyzer. You do lose a bit of durability in the armor save, to be fair.

Didn't even notice that, yeah- definitely Darkstrider not a Fireblade.

If you want to use a Devilfish in your list, I think there are two viable ways to do it:

1. Devilfish + 10x Breachers + Darkstrider (or 2x6 Breachers)
Use this to get in close and smash enemy medium infantry or heavy infantry. If those infantry are sitting on an objective, even better! Breachers in a Devilfish make for a great objective-assault unit, however remember that once they're on the objective they're not going to do a lot.

2. Devilfish + 11x Fire Warriors + Cadre Fireblade

Use this to take objectives from enemy light infantry, or just to quickly make your way to hard-to-reach or faraway objectives. The benefit of Fire Warriors is that, while they excel at midrange shooting, they have the option for long-range firepower as well.

-

Gun Drones are also good in Devilfish, but they're even better outside of Devilfish, so there's that.

Lore
Shas
Posts: 48

Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#5 » Jan 20 2018 10:05

What is the purpose of the Fireblade in the fish? Breachers don't benefit from volley fire.


I thought Breachers and Pathfinders were both armed with Pulse carbines, silly me, but they do look quite similar. So yes there is no point in Breachers with a Fireblade. This being the case and using the suggested suits to capture then mechanised infantry to hold idea maybe 10 strike with a Cadre Fireblade and a guardian drone.

Thanx for the experienced ideas.

Still going to make some Breachers though, maybe some alien ones in a weird-funky-fish.

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Arka0415
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Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#6 » Jan 20 2018 10:31

Lore wrote:This being the case and using the suggested suits to capture then mechanised infantry to hold idea maybe 10 strike with a Cadre Fireblade and a guardian drone.

Remember that a single Guardian Drone is essentially a liability though. Only matters against AP-3 weaponry that target your Fire Warriors, takes up a transport slot in the Devilfish, and offers a free kill point/victory point :neutral:

Lore
Shas
Posts: 48

Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#7 » Jan 20 2018 03:00

Oh that damned separate unit rule! Also is there a misprint somewhere as it says 6+ invulnerable for Strike teams & 5+ invulnerable for Breachers yet they have the same base save. Granted though this makes the guardian far less attractive so probably 11 strike and a cadre firebalde, if only there was a way to get a pulse accelerator in the mix? Maybe send in a team of pathfinders with their special drones as well, would need to be quite a big piece of cover though.

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Shas
Posts: 6

Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#8 » Jan 20 2018 06:51

Lore wrote:Oh that damned separate unit rule! Also is there a misprint somewhere as it says 6+ invulnerable for Strike teams & 5+ invulnerable for Breachers yet they have the same base save. Granted though this makes the guardian far less attractive so probably 11 strike and a cadre firebalde, if only there was a way to get a pulse accelerator in the mix? Maybe send in a team of pathfinders with their special drones as well, would need to be quite a big piece of cover though.


Thanks I missed that. Its been bugging me why Strike teams and Breachers are different units.

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Arka0415
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Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#9 » Jan 20 2018 07:57

Breachers carry backpack-mounted Guardian shield generator amplifiers, that's why thet get 5++ while normal Strike Team Fire Warriors only get 6++.

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gunrock
Shas
Posts: 110

Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#10 » Jan 21 2018 04:00

Arka0415 wrote:If you want all-in-one units that can take objectives, then you'll need to look elsewhere. Coldstars, Piranhas, Kroot, and Vespid are the units you'd need to look at in those cases.


This.

It's not that mechanized infantry are bad objective grabbers, just that there are so many other ways to get on to an objective without the overhead cost of a transport. What worries me is the devilfish in and of itself has very little offensive potential, it's essentially a points investment in increasing the durability and mobility of another unit. To that list you could add stealth teams, embedded drone squads, and long range commanders. Pathfinders can also do well on foot just using their vanguard move which further diminishes the utility of a transport. In the case of breachers, vespid can very nearly provide the same profile, but far greater movement, range, and the intrinsic benefits of fly and deepstrike. As long as we have the capabilities of deepstrike units transports will remain of secondary value.
All the rivers run into the sea, Yet the sea is not full; Unto the place whither the rivers go, Thither they go again.

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Arka0415
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Re: Stealing objectives: Breachers, Pathfinders or something else?

Post#11 » Jan 21 2018 07:21

gunrock wrote:It's not that mechanized infantry are bad objective grabbers, just that there are so many other ways to get on to an objective without the overhead cost of a transport. What worries me is the devilfish in and of itself has very little offensive potential, it's essentially a points investment in increasing the durability and mobility of another unit. To that list you could add stealth teams, embedded drone squads, and long range commanders. Pathfinders can also do well on foot just using their vanguard move which further diminishes the utility of a transport. In the case of breachers, vespid can very nearly provide the same profile, but far greater movement, range, and the intrinsic benefits of fly and deepstrike. As long as we have the capabilities of deepstrike units transports will remain of secondary value.

Absolutely, great points to remember. One other thing that may deserve mentioning is that our troops aren't durable or capable of really holding an objective- even though we have that new Objective Secured ability, the presence of 5-10 FIre Warriors on an objective is not going to make anyone think twice about taking it. Sure, those Fire Warriors always count as holding it even if there's one left, but... there's not going to be many left is the enemy actually tries to shift them.

Other factions get great troops like Plague Marines, Intercessors, Tyranid Warriors, etc that can really use Objective Secured. We Tau, on the other hand, can't do that- our troops are fragile. So, we need to take objectives and clear out enemies aggressively with our heavy-hitters to ensure the survival of our dedicated objective-holders.

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