ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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Arka0415
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ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#1 » Jan 24 2018 05:22

Blood of Kittens has posted the new, updated standings for ITC armies. Tau are currently in 7th place, which doesn't sound too bad, but we're sitting on a 3.2% winrate which is pretty impressively bad. Here are the current standings:

http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2018/01/ ... 2017-2018/

Out of the six events in the last two months only one Tau army made it into a top three, scoring 3rd at the "Hammer in the New Year GT" event on January 6-7. Here's that Tau list which features 11 Commanders:

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/up ... -2018-.pdf

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Krospgnasker
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#2 » Jan 24 2018 05:35

As a Space Wolves player... Ouch. 0.67% winrate feels bad.

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Arka0415
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#3 » Jan 24 2018 05:46

Krospgnasker wrote:As a Space Wolves player... Ouch. 0.67% winrate feels bad.

I think that's a combination of SW being relatively unused, and still having an Index. Same with Custodes (when this article came out).

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Aspiring Commander
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#4 » Jan 24 2018 06:10

Weirdest thing about that Tau list was the commander with 3 airburst launchers and an ATS, I hadn't considered it before. The rest was generic commander spam though :P
'We act as one, and united we cannot fall'

-Commander Shadowsun

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Arka0415
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#5 » Jan 24 2018 06:32

Aspiring Commander wrote:Weirdest thing about that Tau list was the commander with 3 airburst launchers and an ATS, I hadn't considered it before. The rest was generic commander spam though :P

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Just using it for fun maybe? WYSIWYG limitation? Or just really afraid of weak units hiding behind walls?

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JancoBCN
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#6 » Jan 24 2018 06:43

Arka0415 wrote:
Aspiring Commander wrote:Weirdest thing about that Tau list was the commander with 3 airburst launchers and an ATS, I hadn't considered it before. The rest was generic commander spam though :P

Wow, I didn't even notice that. Just using it for fun maybe? WYSIWYG limitation? Or just really afraid of weak units hiding behind walls?


Yeah, in the last 3 hours I have seen the only 2 lists with actually Airburst Fragmentation Projector (AFP) in all 8th Edition.
The first one (prior to the one you shared, Arka) comes from one of the already uploaded lists of the players going to the LVO this next weekend. How can you get those, you say? Very easy, basically follow the instructions on this article from Frontline Gaming regarding "Army Lists":
https://www.frontlinegaming.org/2018/01/21/a-guide-to-media-coverage-of-the-2018-las-vegas-open/

It basically consists on downloading the Best Coast Pairings mobile app, available for IOS and Android, and then go to "LVO 40k Champs 2018" -> "Roster"
And you can see all the already uploaded lists of the players (the ones with green symbol are uploaded, the red ones are not)

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FoxZz
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#7 » Jan 24 2018 07:41

AFP on the commander is basically a Flamer with 18" range, so it can be quite powerfull in absolute

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Bloodknife92
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#8 » Jan 24 2018 07:51

FoxZz wrote:AFP on the commander is basically a Flamer with 18" range, so it can be quite powerfull in absolute

The key difference is that flamers need LoS. The AFP does not.

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FoxZz
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#9 » Jan 24 2018 07:56

Yes, but AFP also needs to roll for hits which compensate.
Does the AFP ignore covers ? I don't think so but I'm not sure

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Arka0415
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#10 » Jan 24 2018 07:59

Bloodknife92 wrote:
FoxZz wrote:AFP on the commander is basically a Flamer with 18" range, so it can be quite powerfull in absolute

The key difference is that flamers need LoS. The AFP does not.

Burst Cannon is just statistically better against all targets though. More hits on average, can't whiff, higher strength. How often do you need to shoot light infantry through walls?

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Jhul'vol
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#11 » Jan 24 2018 08:16

I can imagine they use it the other way around though. Since first floor counts as closed off, you could put your commander on the bottom floor of the building and shoot everything around you, while not being targeted yourself.

Also could be used to clear small groups of hidden objectives, like nurglings, single cyberwolves and other cheap slot fillers. It might not make it's points cost back in the game, but if you prevent the enemy from scoring it has a worth on it's own.

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JancoBCN
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#12 » Jan 24 2018 08:18

Arka0415 wrote:
Bloodknife92 wrote:
FoxZz wrote:AFP on the commander is basically a Flamer with 18" range, so it can be quite powerfull in absolute

The key difference is that flamers need LoS. The AFP does not.

Burst Cannon is just statistically better against all targets though. More hits on average, can't whiff, higher strength. How often do you need to shoot light infantry through walls?


That was exactly my reasoning when I started evaluate all T'au weapons on the Index. Shooting where I cannot see is way low upside on a Deepstriking unit. Also, D6 shots mean ANOTHER filter to pass, depending on variance, and I hate that.

Though process:
1- Oh wait, but AFP is like a 18" flamer for a Commander!
2- Oh wait, but Burst cannon is 4 shots always (0.5 above the average of AFP) at same range and +1S and the same price! End of story.

And even that I have only used once or twice a BC Comander.

Maybe ultra-competitive players value more that LoS thing vs Specific Common Lists/Tactics they have seen so far...

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FoxZz
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#13 » Jan 24 2018 08:27

To be honest it was only 1 commander on 11, so it was probably the go to unit against NoLos targets of the list.

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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#14 » Jan 24 2018 08:40

Arka0415 wrote:Out of the six events in the last two months only one Tau army made it into a top three, scoring 3rd at the "Hammer in the New Year GT" event on January 6-7. Here's that Tau list which features 11 Commanders:

http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/up ... -2018-.pdf


Am I missing something, the first commander in that list has 2 missile pods and '(any hit applies 1 marker light)'. Where are these marker lights coming from?

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Arka0415
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#15 » Jan 24 2018 08:45

Blinx wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Out of the six events in the last two months only one Tau army made it into a top three, scoring 3rd at the "Hammer in the New Year GT" event on January 6-7. Here's that Tau list which features 11 Commanders:
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/up ... -2018-.pdf

Am I missing something, the first commander in that list has 2 missile pods and '(any hit applies 1 marker light)'. Where are these marker lights coming from?

It's Forgeworld's unique XV84 Commander. It has a system that basically takes up two slots, but gives the Commander a Networked Markerlight. The description in that list is a little misleading- it's not that each hit results in a Markerlight hit, but rather that as long as the XV84 hits its target at least once, one Markerlight is applied automatically. So it's a maximum of one Markerlight hit per shooting phase.

PeeJ
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#16 » Jan 24 2018 08:48

Eleven commanders..... Eleven.

When your winning army lists consist almost purely of Commanders and 'bubble wrap' units, someone at GW must notice that there is something seriously wrong with the army.

No heavy support, No LOW, No vehicles of any kind (Tanks, Fliers, Transports), No Markerlights (which are meant to be a key mechanic of the army) and the only 'fast attack' used is 'points paid for ablative wounds'.

That is not an army I would ever want to play, I feel kind of dirty just looking at it.

Blinx
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#17 » Jan 24 2018 09:13

Arka0415 wrote:
Blinx wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:Out of the six events in the last two months only one Tau army made it into a top three, scoring 3rd at the "Hammer in the New Year GT" event on January 6-7. Here's that Tau list which features 11 Commanders:
http://bloodofkittens.com/wp-content/up ... -2018-.pdf

Am I missing something, the first commander in that list has 2 missile pods and '(any hit applies 1 marker light)'. Where are these marker lights coming from?

It's Forgeworld's unique XV84 Commander. It has a system that basically takes up two slots, but gives the Commander a Networked Markerlight. The description in that list is a little misleading- it's not that each hit results in a Markerlight hit, but rather that as long as the XV84 hits its target at least once, one Markerlight is applied automatically. So it's a maximum of one Markerlight hit per shooting phase.

Ah, fair enough. I guess in an all commander list you don't really need more than reroll ones. Is it one marker light per target or just one? I.e. If I target 2 units with the pods and hit both, does each one get a markerlight?

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JancoBCN
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Re: ITC Standings / Top Lists Update

Post#18 » Jan 24 2018 09:20

Blinx wrote:
Arka0415 wrote:
Blinx wrote:Am I missing something, the first commander in that list has 2 missile pods and '(any hit applies 1 marker light)'. Where are these marker lights coming from?

It's Forgeworld's unique XV84 Commander. It has a system that basically takes up two slots, but gives the Commander a Networked Markerlight. The description in that list is a little misleading- it's not that each hit results in a Markerlight hit, but rather that as long as the XV84 hits its target at least once, one Markerlight is applied automatically. So it's a maximum of one Markerlight hit per shooting phase.

Ah, fair enough. I guess in an all commander list you don't really need more than reroll ones. Is it one marker light per target or just one? I.e. If I target 2 units with the pods and hit both, does each one get a markerlight?


I quote the ruling:
"If any attack in the Shooting phase from this model successfully hits its target, regardless of whether it passes its wound roll, it automatically applies a single markerlight counter to the target unit. This ability may only apply a maximum of one Markerlight counter per phase"

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