Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Discuss tactical and strategic development for 40K/Tau.
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FoxZz
Shas
Posts: 44

Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#1 » Feb 04 2018 03:26

Hi all,

There is many threads on the forum about the different and optimal loadouts out there, but it can be hard to track. So I have decided to make a thread that brings all the interesting loadouts together. I haven't included Rptide because it's not at all competitive at the moment, nor FW units (but feel free to do so).

I did not put Gun Drones if there is no Drone Controller in the team, because I don't think it synergizes well, but it's the same price, so you can easilly change one for another. Many of those loadouts are not always ultra-competitive, but have interesting synergies imho.

Commander loadouts:
HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176) (Only reliable anti-tank)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x Missile Pods; Advanced Targeting System (156) (V8 Broadside)
HQ - Commander w/ 3x CIBs; ATS; 2x Shield Drones (154)

XV8s loadouts:
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 8x CIBs, Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 6x CIBs; 3x ATS; 6x Shield Drones (306)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 9x Plasma Rifles; 6 Shield Drones (273) (rapid fire plasma)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 8x Plasma Rifles; Drone Controller; 6 Gun Drones (267)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 9x Flamers; 6 Shield Drones (255) (Panzer's Flamers/Commander screen)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Team w/ 8x Flamers; Drone Controller; 6 Gun Drones (251)

XV25 loadouts:
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; 2x Shield Drones (106) (best beacon delivrery)
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; Drone Controller; 2x Marker Drones (115) (nice 4+ marker drones platform)
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; 3x Shield Generators 2x Shield Drones (130) (best survivability)
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 3x Burst Cannons; 3x ATS; 2x Shield Drones (130) (more AP using free hardpoints)
Elite - XV25 Stealth Team w/ 2x Burst Cannons; (2x ATS); 1 Fusion Blaster; Drone Controller; 2x Marker Drones (142) (fusion stealth)
[Every loadout can take an addtional Homing Beacon]

XV95 loadouts:
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Burst Cannons, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181) (stay beyond 12")
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Fusion Blasters, Cyclic Ion Raker; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (235) (swiss knife)
Elite - XV95 Ghostkeel w/ 2x Fusion Blasters, Fusion Collider; Target Lock; Shield Generator; 2x Stealth Drones (240)

KV128 loadouts:
Super-heavy - KV128 Stormsurge w/ Pulse Driver Canon; Cluster Rocket System; 2x Blast Cannons; 2x Smart Missiles System; 4x Destroyers Missiles; ATS; Shield Generator; +X (486)
X= Stimulant Injector, Velocity Tracker, Early Warning Override

Super-heavy - KV128 Stormsurge w/ Pulse Blastcannon; Cluster Rocket System; 2x Blast Cannons; 2x Smart Missiles System; 4x Destroyers Missiles; ATS; Shield Generator; Target Lock (404)

Interesting Synergies:

Breacher Combo: 262pts
HQ – Darkstrider (45)
Troop – Breacher Team w/ 10 Pulse Blasters; Photon Grenades; Pulse Pistol (80)
Dedicated Transport –TY7 Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)

Fireblade/Drone Combo: 246pts
HQ - Cadre Firblade (39)
Fast Attack - Gun Drone Team w/ 10x Pulse Carabines (40)
Fast Attack - Gun Drone Team w/ 10x Pulse Carabines (40)
Dedicated Transport –TY7 Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)

EDITS :
- After comments, removed and changed some loadouts, added another combo, price correction.

Do you have other competitive, synergizing loadouts or compositions that you'd like to share ?
Last edited by FoxZz on Feb 05 2018 05:29, edited 4 times in total.

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Beerson
Shas'Saal
Posts: 224

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#2 » Feb 04 2018 05:37

I think you are missing the true best beacon delivery, 3xBC 1-3x SG, 2 shield drones, number of shields depends where you want it on scale cost-safety, also SI on 2 wound models is less then optimal and I wouldn't waste space with that

Also in synergies you really should put fireblade, its the single most used synergistic unit in our army, ideal example:
XV-25 3x BC 1x DC
Fireblade
2+ drone squad 4x gun drone 1x shield drone (can adopt drones dropped with other units)

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3213

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#3 » Feb 04 2018 06:29

Thanks for putting this together! You might want to wait on developing this though, since it will all change very soon!

That said, a few things to change:

- Plasma Rifle + Marker Drone combo for XV8s packs very little damage, so I wouldn't bother with it!
- The "best beacon delivery" Stealthsuits need a beacon!
- Stealthsuits with VT or SI are amusing, niche choices, but don't really belong in a "competitive" loadout list
- Your Ghostkeel loadouts seem like the points are miscalculated. The first Ghostkeel should cost 181, not 211.
- The Stormsurge should be armed with Burst Cannons and a Pulse Blastcannon, not Flamers and a Pulse Driver.
- Darkstrider's Devilfish probably shouldn't carry Seeker Missiles, since those are dependent on army composition.

What do you think?

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FoxZz
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Posts: 44

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#4 » Feb 05 2018 03:54

Beerson wrote:I think you are missing the true best beacon delivery, 3xBC 1-3x SG, 2 shield drones, number of shields depends where you want it on scale cost-safety, also SI on 2 wound models is less then optimal and I wouldn't waste space with that


Aren't SG and SD redundant ? If you invest into SD, isn'it better to go with other types of drones instead ? Could be: 3xBC, 2xSD, 1DC, 2 marker drones + drone squad buffing for example.
OK for SI, will remove this loadout.

Beerson wrote:Also in synergies you really should put fireblade, its the single most used synergistic unit in our army, ideal example:
XV-25 3x BC 1x DC
Fireblade
2+ drone squad 4x gun drone 1x shield drone (can adopt drones dropped with other units)


Yes Fireblade has a lot of interesting synergies. Not sur about this one though as Fireblade though as it wouldn't be bale to keep it up with XV25s and drones.

There is the Fireblade + Devilfish + 2x5 drones combo, that is quite popular.
Fireblade + Firewarriors (how many buffed FW are needed to pay back the Fireblade though ?)

Arka0415 wrote:Thanks for putting this together! You might want to wait on developing this though, since it will all change very soon!

That said, a few things to change:

- Plasma Rifle + Marker Drone combo for XV8s packs very little damage, so I wouldn't bother with it!
- The "best beacon delivery" Stealthsuits need a beacon!
- Stealthsuits with VT or SI are amusing, niche choices, but don't really belong in a "competitive" loadout list
- Your Ghostkeel loadouts seem like the points are miscalculated. The first Ghostkeel should cost 181, not 211.
- The Stormsurge should be armed with Burst Cannons and a Pulse Blastcannon, not Flamers and a Pulse Driver.
- Darkstrider's Devilfish probably shouldn't carry Seeker Missiles, since those are dependent on army composition.

What do you think?


- Yep, I kind of agree, at first it was a 8 plasma + DC + 6 gun drones loadout, but thought that Plasma was probably the longest range/cheapest option to equip a Marker Drone Crisis team. But probably better off sticking with the 8 plasma/DC/6GD and taking a dedicated Marker drone squad, or, relying on Stealth teams.

- I didn't add the homing beacon in any of the loadouts beacuse it doesn't take a hardpoint, and, virtually, all the loadouts can take a hardpoint. Some just synergize better with it than others, but it's mainly a question of points available, and what you want to do with the Stealth suits.

- About Stormsurge, I really don't know as I'm not very interested in the moddel. I thought flamers mainly as a defense agaisnt charging deepstriking units, and considering Flamers are better at overwatch and that Stormsurge already has plnty of weapon to do what BC does, I went with Flamers, but maybe BC are more competitive.
However, I really disgagree on Pulse Blastcannon. Stormsurge needs to be anchored to get 3+ BS, and has only 6" movement,as such it's meant to be a static model. But Pulseblastcannon has a short range, and needs to be really close to be really effective. S10 0AP is kind of meaningless, as even a MEQ could whiff that. It would also need a Target lock. On the other hand, with ATS, which is mandatory for the model anyway, the Pulse Driver cannon is effectively a D3 Railgun, which is quite good.

- You're right about Seeker missiles, but in which case wouldn't you take seeker missiles on Devlifish ? No Pathfiners lists are kind of scarce. Will still remove it though.

- Yep miscalculated on the Ghostkeel indeed.

I'm editing the OP.

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3213

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#5 » Feb 05 2018 04:26

FoxZz wrote:
Beerson wrote:I think you are missing the true best beacon delivery, 3xBC 1-3x SG, 2 shield drones, number of shields depends where you want it on scale cost-safety, also SI on 2 wound models is less then optimal and I wouldn't waste space with that


Aren't SG and SD redundant ? If you invest into SD, isn'it better to go with other types of drones instead ? Could be: 3xBC, 2xSD, 1DC, 2 marker drones + drone squad buffing for example.

Once the Shield Drones are dead, anti-tank weapons can really make a mess of Stealthsuits. Shield Generators make them even tougher against the weapons best-equipped to take them out.

FoxZz wrote:Yep, I kind of agree, at first it was a 8 plasma + DC + 6 gun drones loadout, but thought that Plasma was probably the longest range/cheapest option to equip a Marker Drone Crisis team. But probably better off sticking with the 8 plasma/DC/6GD and taking a dedicated Marker drone squad, or, relying on Stealth teams.

True, Plasma has a good range that complements Markerlights, but it still represents a decent waste of firepower. XV8s like to be in close range, and Gun Drones offer a much more powerful option.

FoxZz wrote:I didn't add the homing beacon in any of the loadouts beacuse it doesn't take a hardpoint, and, virtually, all the loadouts can take a hardpoint. Some just synergize better with it than others, but it's mainly a question of points available, and what you want to do with the Stealth suits.

Makes sense! Just make that clear in the writeup then.

FoxZz wrote:About Stormsurge, I really don't know as I'm not very interested in the moddel. I thought flamers mainly as a defense agaisnt charging deepstriking units, and considering Flamers are better at overwatch and that Stormsurge already has plnty of weapon to do what BC does, I went with Flamers, but maybe BC are more competitive.

If you're running a Stormsurge, you're going to want to maximize its firepower in your own shooting phase, and Burst Cannons help with that. In addition, nothing that can charge a Stormsurge and pose a threat to it will be afraid of two Flamers, and the Burst Cannons are a more viable way to increase its overall firepower. Finally, Flamers offer no defense against deep-striking units, just so you know.

FoxZz wrote:However, I really disgagree on Pulse Blastcannon. Stormsurge needs to be anchored to get 3+ BS, and has only 6" movement,as such it's meant to be a static model. But Pulseblastcannon has a short range, and needs to be really close to be really effective. S10 0AP is kind of meaningless, as even a MEQ could whiff that. It would also need a Target lock. On the other hand, with ATS, which is mandatory for the model anyway, the Pulse Driver cannon is effectively a D3 Railgun, which is quite good.

This was a discussion we had a while ago on ATT, but I used to agree with your line of reasoning. However, assuming you move the Stormsurge to a more viable position on turn 1 and drop the anchors during your first turn, the 20" range profile on Blastcannon offers a very, very effective profile. With a 40" threat diameter the gun's range covers a huge chunk of the board, and the S12/AP-3 profile (with ATS) actually offers more damage than the Pulse Driver, especially when you realize that many large targets sport 5++ saves in 8th Edition. The 20" profile on the Pulse Blastcannon will average 6.5 damage against a T8/Sv3+ target while the Pulse Driver will only deal 4.5 damage. Seeing as the Blastcannon offers almost 150% the firepower for less than 50% the cost, the Blastcannon offers significantly more effiency and damage compared to the Pulse Driver. And 20" range really isn't bad, especially when you play aggressively and use Commanders to hunt faraway targets.

FoxZz wrote:You're right about Seeker missiles, but in which case wouldn't you take seeker missiles on Devlifish ? No Pathfiners lists are kind of scarce. Will still remove it though.

Same reason that you didn't include the Homing Beacon in the Stealthsuit list. They're not necessary to the combo, and not all lists will use them. Also, plenty of lists won't use Seekers on Devilfish, especially when you're running smaller lists and the Missiles aren't as useful.

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FoxZz
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Posts: 44

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#6 » Feb 05 2018 05:25

Ok, I edited the list.

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Beerson
Shas'Saal
Posts: 224

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#7 » Feb 05 2018 09:38

FoxZz wrote:
Beerson wrote:Also in synergies you really should put fireblade, its the single most used synergistic unit in our army, ideal example:
XV-25 3x BC 1x DC
Fireblade
2+ drone squad 4x gun drone 1x shield drone (can adopt drones dropped with other units)


Yes Fireblade has a lot of interesting synergies. Not sur about this one though as Fireblade though as it wouldn't be bale to keep it up with XV25s and drones.


There doesn't exist anything like "can't keep up with", just because you can move at max distance doesn't mean you have to

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FoxZz
Shas
Posts: 44

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#8 » Feb 07 2018 11:30

Found out a very interesting topic on Reddit about optimal Crisis and Commanders loadouts raw dammage : https://www.reddit.com/r/Tau40K/comment ... it-android

Conclusion are matching with the ones on ATT :
For Crisis suits :

Do not use Support Systems

Against TEQ or above, use Fusion weapons

Everything else, use Flamers

Cyclic isn't a bad middle ground. Overcharge for multi-wound units, normal for single wound.

For commanders:

ATS is good for AFB... But don't use it.

ATS is comparable to a 4th weapon for Cyclic (Both Overcharge and normal). Take ATS if points matter.

ATS is better for the following weapons (except for units like Guardsmen):

Burst Cannon
Missile

Multi-Tracker isn't worth it

For everything else, if maximizing raw damage, take the 4th weapon.


The following thread itself is very interesting with additional graphs. Hope it helps.

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Lostroninsoul
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Posts: 316

Re: Most Competitive / Best Synergies loadouts: a loadout codex

Post#9 » Feb 08 2018 12:59

Xv8: 8FB +1DC + 6marker drones+ MLstratagem=
~5 .333 ml with crisis suits doing similar damage to 2 FB commanders . This synergy also greatly increases the value of seeker/destroyer missles by utilizing long range. (359 pts)

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