Casualties, subsequent movement and coherence

A review of Rules of Engagement from earlier encounters.
nowrush
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Casualties, subsequent movement and coherence

Post#1 » Jul 13 2006 10:26

Here is the scenario:
I score 2 kills.
Image


my opponent removes the middle 2

Image

his turn comes around, and he assaults me, as his front guy is within 12".

Image

i say
"don't you have to keep the rest of your unit within coherence?"
to which he goes "yeah, they can run up to join him. heck, like you said, they have to run up, to maintain coherence."

so the back couple ran like 9 inches to join the lead rusher, and he ended up tying me up in assault and killing me over the next turn and a half.

this seems kinda unfair, since his rear footsloggers practically turbo'd their way into combat, and then piled in. so i guess what i'm looking for is, how is this situation resolved?

the way i was thinking was, all of his models could move up to 6", so his rear guys would move 6", and his front guy, who's like 4" away, would have to slow down and wait for the rest of his squad, so he'd end up moving somethin like 2" and end up outsdie of assault range but within coherence.

instead of slowing down, he said the rest of the squad could speed up to "catch up", as it were. which is right? i've only had 2 games (this being my 3rd) so i'm in no place to argue..

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snotgoblin040
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Post#2 » Jul 13 2006 10:39

I new too so anyone correct me if im wrong, but the guy is a pain.

You can take whatever model you want from shooting, but he was just being a moron about it, if he was any type of 'sportsman' he would have taken them off the back. But i assume he was afraid that other units would hit them, so he did that.

But appart from thatI think he was still right... it sounds stupid though.
"The most accurate fire, is friendly Fire" :/

nowrush
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Post#3 » Jul 13 2006 11:17

sorry, only the nearest 3 were in range of shooting. i didnt draw that very well...let me edit it
ok, i edited the pictures so that it represents more what happened

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stevefox
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Post#4 » Jul 14 2006 12:02

As long as his models moved into coherancy during his MOVEMENT phase, then it was a legal maneuver. Now if they took until the assault phase to acheive coherancy, then you got skewed. His removal of the two "middle" models was valid.
'El Fox
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Dal'yth Mont'sha
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Post#5 » Jul 14 2006 12:56

Stevefox is right.

He has removed his causualties legally. Whether or not he could make it into CC would be borderline and would depend on very exact distances. If he was able to move his remaining 4 their full 6" towards the guy out front and towards your troops and then shift the lead guy to within 6" of your troops while still keeping 2" or less from his own guys then it would be a completely legal charge. Now on his charge I should hope that only the lead guy made it to btb contact with your troops. As his other guys were outside 12" for your shooting there is no way at all they could have made btb themselves although some would still be in the fight.

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T0nkaTruckDriver
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Post#6 » Jul 14 2006 07:12

Stevefox and O'Mont'sha are correct.

nowrush
Shas
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Post#7 » Jul 14 2006 09:54

He moved his front guy 6", and his rear guys probably around 9", so that they ended up within 2" of his front guy. then the entire pack moved 6". he said his rear guys can move more than 6" if they need to catch up to the unit. they in effect "run" to catch up.

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Afghan Jones
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Post#8 » Jul 14 2006 09:59

running to catch up is utter cheatery of the highest order.

totally not allowed.

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Quex
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Post#9 » Jul 14 2006 10:06

I haven't even played a real game and I know that was cheating.
It's been way too long.

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Scoutfox
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Post#10 » Jul 17 2006 09:42

The Blood Angels kid I play tries that @#$@. He'll measure the first guy then kind of just grab the rest of the models and move them forward. Then I say "was that six inches for X guy," and he measures and he's not even close. Each model can only move 6" no matter what.

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Afghan Jones
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Post#11 » Jul 17 2006 10:13

its less of an issue for CC army vs CC army but when you play tau, people stealing an extra quarter inch of movement here and there becomes severely critical. CC becomes to decisive when tau are involved to let people get away with dodgy measuring or the 'yeah, he's pretty much in 6 inches more or less'

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midnight
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Post#12 » Jul 17 2006 08:39

If someone tries to do that to you again the proper response is to ask him to "put his models back to so they are in coherency during the movement phase in a way that isn't cheating." If he complains about the wording, tell him to show you the spot where anybody aside from a model with fleet gets to run.

I hate stuff like this. Watching a guy try to shoot me with a 12" range gun when he had to start more than 18" away thanks to infiltrate annoyed me. Watching him do it again that weekend after I had shown him the actual rule so he knew it wasn't legal got me angry.
For the Greater Go'ould! Whoops, wrong genre.

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Stonefox
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Post#13 » Jul 17 2006 09:14

midnight wrote:If someone tries to do that to you again the proper response is to ask him to "put his models back to so they are in coherency during the movement phase in a way that isn't cheating." If he complains about the wording, tell him to show you the spot where anybody aside from a model with fleet gets to run.

I hate stuff like this. Watching a guy try to shoot me with a 12" range gun when he had to start more than 18" away thanks to infiltrate annoyed me. Watching him do it again that weekend after I had shown him the actual rule so he knew it wasn't legal got me angry.


Haha, I used to have the same problem. The solution is always to talk about it before it happens. "Your guys should be more than 18 inches away when you infiltrate. You won't be able to engage in CC first turn." "You'll have to keep coherency during movement or else you won't be able to shoot (or another excuse)." "(During deployment) This Hammerhead can only see and be seen by squad X. Can you confirm?" Say it firmly.
My hamham plays warhams. WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAMS WARHAM

nowrush
Shas
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Post#14 » Jul 17 2006 09:55

scout fox: yeah actually that's exactly what he did. his lead model ran up 6 inches, and then the rest of his squad just kinda bunched up behind, though they must've gotten 9 or 10 inches of movement to do that.

i'm beginning to tire of this game...i've played 3 games, and on 3 separate occassions had 3 people cheat to get into assault. hell, in my first game ever, a red shirt cheated to assault my firewarriors with magical sisters who ran around my fish, through a forest, and assaulted my firewarriors who were 12" away by straight line.

i was under the impression you wouldnt even go all out against someone who gets confused just watching an assault phase occur, never mind CHEAT. i wouldnt even mind if someone played his most brutal list, held nothing back, and beat up on a newbie (ie: me), just so long as he explained what rules he was using, but to cheat to do it 3 times kinda sucks.

i've tried to do my research, but the rule book is huge, and i don't own the other codices, and there's no way i'd remember all the rules even if i tried. i also don't like how the game just seems to be filled with exceptions that contradict each other. like, "this rule can be ignored in all cases", vs "this rule ignores all those other rules that ignores this rule, even in this case", etc etc etc.

i'd just sorta relied upon good faith. from a gaming point of view, 40k is beginning to look rather unattractive, and truth be told, from a modelling point of view, there's a LOT of other stuff out there that's high quality and half the price.

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midnight
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Post#15 » Jul 17 2006 11:40

I'll tell you right now, people will cheat at about any game they can if they are poor sports.

I've seen someone move a piece in chess that would have caused a check and since the opponent didn't notice they just did it. They had mentioned they couldn't do it 5 moves prior and the opponent forgot.


The book is not that big. Just go through each section by itself. Read up on the stuff that matters to you. For instance: Movement phase. Looking at the index in the back gets you a lot of pages. Start at the beginning and see how each unit moves. Go through and learn each type. You will need this info anyway. Tau use fast vehicles, normal vehicles, skimmers, jet pack movement, jump infantry movement, fleet, slow and purposeful and normal infantry movement. You've got most of everything already. Look up the stuff that works differently just as a way to finish your understanding. Beasts move faster so you have to deal with that.
Once you have the general movement down and the few variations, you can look at how different unit types use the movement. Skimmers vs normal tanks. Monsterous creatures and independent characters. See how terrain effects things and you are just about completely done. See how enemy models effect movement and how your own do as well.

Then go to the shooting phase. Do as before.

At this point you will have over half the stuff down. Assault becomes easy to deal with at that point.

Don't let cheaters discourage you. If we all did nobody would want to play baseball after seeing Barry Bonds step up to the plate.
For the Greater Go'ould! Whoops, wrong genre.

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