Mechanised Orks

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
FrogPrince
Shas'Saal
Posts: 26

Mechanised Orks

Post#1 » Sep 26 2017 03:38

So, I am really new and only played a handful of games, mostly against my mate's Orks.

He prefers the mechanised units, particularly Gorkanauts, Killa Kans and Nob Bikers.

The bikers I can deal with, and as long as my Hammerheads don't miss, I can remove a Gorkanaut in a couple of turns.

My big, big problem is the Killa Kans. He bring 5 per unit and takes 2 units at least all armed with Rokkits. I just can't to get through them fast enough or effectively enough so although my first turn shooting goes well against everything else, the Kans survive the rest of the battle and I am picked off in the end or lose on objectives.

HELP, PLEASE!!!!!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2196

Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#2 » Sep 26 2017 06:51

FrogPrince wrote:He prefers the mechanised units, particularly Gorkanauts, Killa Kans and Nob Bikers.

These are some of the tougher units Orks can bring- while spamming 100+ Boyz is probably more dangerous for Tau, this is a very threatening list. You've got your hands full!

FrogPrince wrote:The bikers I can deal with, and as long as my Hammerheads don't miss, I can remove a Gorkanaut in a couple of turns.

Just out of curiosity, what are you using to deal with the bikers? And while Hammerheads are great units, their average damage output is very poor. 4 or 5 damage if you're lucky, 6-7 damage if you're extremely lucky. Against a Gorkanaut a Hammerhead has a less than 50% chance of doing any damage. As most people here on ATT have found out, we Tau seem to do best a closer ranges, using Fusion Blasters. Of course, against Orks this will be very dangerous.

FrogPrince wrote:My big, big problem is the Killa Kans. He bring 5 per unit and takes 2 units at least all armed with Rokkits. I just can't to get through them fast enough or effectively enough

Sounds like trouble. If he's bringing 10+ Killa Kans though, I assume these are pretty big games? Hopefully you should be able to bring an equally big countermeasure.

Can you post the general army list you've been using? Battles are won during list-building, tactics are secondary (though still very important). Once we've gotten your army list sorted out we can talk about how to tackle this Ork threat!

Tau'va!

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KuroRyu
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 284
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Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#3 » Sep 26 2017 11:24

Yeah, you're looking at 1750-2k points with those kinds of units.

Kans are T5 with a 3+ save I'd recommend fighting them with volume of fire. Take lots of drones or fire warriors and drown them in concentrated pulse fire. These units are also poor targets for their D3 rokkits since they're overkill on rank troops.

FrogPrince
Shas'Saal
Posts: 26

Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#4 » Sep 27 2017 12:16

We are generally playing 2k lists.

The 3 Hammerheads are being supported by a couple of Ghostkeels, in the last game I had one set to all Fusions, so these with the Railguns managed to remove his first of 2 Gorkanauts. I did have 5 Markerlights on it too and one of the Hammerheads is Longstrike, all three also have Seekers.

For the Nobs on bikes, usually 2 units of 5-6 with Warboss on bike alongside, I am getting good clearance using 3 Piranhas all with BCs and my Riptide with HBC and SMS did most of the damage, along with a Coldstar Commander.

My 2 units of Stealth Suits, 1xFB 2xBC and 2x Gun Drones, are infiltrated to grab an objective, and last game cleared a 15 Orks unit of Storm Boyz on their own with only the Drones as casualties.

I did drop a unit of 3 Crisis Suits, 2xFB with 4xPlasmas and 2x Flamers, along with 6 Gun Drones nearby to mop up anything which were mainly the two Warbosses on bikes.

FrogPrince
Shas'Saal
Posts: 26

Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#5 » Sep 27 2017 12:18

I did get far too aggressive with my Ghostkeels and they were cleared by the end of turn 2, one after turn 1.

I hate smite!

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2196

Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#6 » Sep 28 2017 01:51

FrogPrince wrote:The 3 Hammerheads are being supported by a couple of Ghostkeels, in the last game I had one set to all Fusions, so these with the Railguns managed to remove his first of 2 Gorkanauts. I did have 5 Markerlights on it too and one of the Hammerheads is Longstrike, all three also have Seekers.

For the Nobs on bikes, usually 2 units of 5-6 with Warboss on bike alongside, I am getting good clearance using 3 Piranhas all with BCs and my Riptide with HBC and SMS did most of the damage, along with a Coldstar Commander.

My 2 units of Stealth Suits, 1xFB 2xBC and 2x Gun Drones, are infiltrated to grab an objective, and last game cleared a 15 Orks unit of Storm Boyz on their own with only the Drones as casualties.

I did drop a unit of 3 Crisis Suits, 2xFB with 4xPlasmas and 2x Flamers, along with 6 Gun Drones nearby to mop up anything which were mainly the two Warbosses on bikes.

So, I assume your opponent is a fairly seasoned player? I think that's the issue- they're bringing a tough list with powerful units, while your list is characterful it's really more for casual play. No offense of course! But I think it's a list matchup problem.

Generally, in competitive Tau lists, we bring the following units:

Commanders
Fireblades + Gun Drones/Fire Warriors
Breachers + Devilfish
Pathfinders
Stealthsuits

We tend to avoid the following units:

Riptides
Skyrays
Hammerheads (too many anyway)
Piranhas
Ghostkeels
XV8s (without uniform builds)

If you're playing 2000-point games, you want to bring a couple of Commanders, a bunch of Drones, a Fireblade, maybe some Devilfish, and 1-2 Hammerheads.

For your list, it'll be important to switch the Ghostkeels to using CIRs (it's the least we can do!), add in as many Commanders and Gun Drones as you can, remove one Hammerhead and all the Piranhas, and switch your XV8s to a uniform, defined role. That'll be a good start! Assuming a few things, here's what that would look like:

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Heavy Support - Hammerhead w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)

There's a solid core to the list- savage amounts of anti-tank and enti-elite firepower, and room to grow too! At 1621 points, that means we have 379 points left to spend. We can add the Riptide back in (though I'd caution against it), or we can add anti-infantry Fire Warriors/Gun Drones, or we can add a Sun Shark Bomber, or we can add more XV8s. It'll really depend on what units you have available. Personally, here's what I'd do: add a Devilfish (+127) and 11 Gun Drones (+88) supported by a Fireblade (+42); finally some Pathfinders will be important to add much-needed Markerlight support for all of those Ion weapons. Here's the final list:

-

HQ - Commander w/ 4x Fusion Blasters; 2x Shield Drones (176)
HQ - Coldstar Commander w/ High-Yield Burst Cannon, Missile Pod, Shield Generator, ATS (150)
HQ - Cadre Fireblade w/ Markerlight (42)
HQ - Longstrike w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (225)
Dedicated Transport - Devilfish w/ Burst Cannon; 2x Gun Drones (127)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - Ghostkeel w/ Cyclic Ion Raker, 2x Burst Cannons, Target Lock, ATS; 2x Stealth Drones (181)
Elites - 3x XV8s w/ 8x Cyclic Ion Blasters, 1x Drone Controller; 6x Gun Drones (323)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Elites - 3x Stealthsuits w/ 3x Burst Cannons (90)
Fast Attack - 6x Gun Drones (48)
Fast Attack - 5x Gun Drones (40)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 7x Markerlights (56)
Fast Attack - 7x Pathfinders w/ 4x Markerlights, 3x Ion Rifles (68)
Heavy Support - Hammerhead w/ Railgun, 2x SMS, 2x Seeker Missiles (205)

Total: 2002 - Command Points: 5 (1 Vanguard Detachment, 1 Outrider Detachment)

-

This isn't finalized at all of course, it's just a rough draft- and I'm not sure what models you have anyway. What do you have in your collection?

FrogPrince
Shas'Saal
Posts: 26

Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#7 » Sep 28 2017 01:37

I had an idea, based off what I own, to take some strong AP weapons to try and negate the Kans' good saving through. I also wanted weapons with a strength to over power the T5 too.

The secondary weapons are there to still pick off the usual bikers and anything softer brought to the table.

The Strike Team were simply because I had 60 odd points left over so wanted to chuck in something cheap but with a possible role, so thought they may assist in holding a home objective.

So my idea for a Killa Kans Cadre is:

Commander Shadowsun w/ 2x MV52 Shield Drone, MV62 Command-link Drone
Darkstrider

7x Fire Warrior w/ Pulse Rifle

2x XV25 Stealth Battlesuits:
2x MV1 Gun Drone
2x Stealth Shas'ui w/ Advanced targeting system, 2x Burst cannon
Stealth Shas'vre w/ Drone controller, Fusion blaster

1x XV8 Crisis Battlesuits
6x MV1 Gun Drone
2x Crisis Shas'ui w/ Flamer, Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle
Crisis Shas'vre w/ Drone controller, Fusion blaster, Plasma rifle

1x XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuit w/ 2x Fusion blaster, Fusion collider, 2x MV5 Stealth Drone, Stimulant injector, Target lock

1xPathfinder Team
MB3 Recon Drone, 2x MV4 Shield Drone
8x Pathfinder w/ Markerlights
Pathfinder Shas'ui w/ Markerlight

Longstrike w/ 2x Smart missile system, Railgun, 2x Seeker missile

2x TX7 Hammerhead Gunship w/ 2x Smart missile system, Railgun, 2x Seeker missile

XV88 Broadside Battlesuit w/ 2x Smart missile system, Heavy rail rifle, Shield generator

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Arka0415
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 2196

Re: Mechanised Orks

Post#8 » Sep 28 2017 07:33

FrogPrince wrote:I had an idea, based off what I own, to take some strong AP weapons to try and negate the Kans' good saving through. I also wanted weapons with a strength to over power the T5 too.

The secondary weapons are there to still pick off the usual bikers and anything softer brought to the table.

The Strike Team were simply because I had 60 odd points left over so wanted to chuck in something cheap but with a possible role, so thought they may assist in holding a home objective.


It's good that you're giving this some thought! Here's the thing though- there's a good chance that your opponent just has a really good list. So you, in turn, need to bring a good list. It's a question of bringing the right weapons, for sure, but even more so it's a question of spending your points efficiently. So, we want to bring units that efficiently bring the guns we want, and don't carry too much extra wargear.

Against heavy armor-spam (and really, against all lists) Shadowsun, Fusion Ghostkeels, and Broadsides don't do very well. A Broadside with a Heavy Rail Rifle really doesn't have a very good chance of killing a Killa Kan. A Hammerhead has a better chance (not great, but better), especially when paired with Longstrike. A Fusion Ghostkeel is a good unit, but it'll get too close to those Killa Kans- better to keep your distance and blast away with a Cyclic Ion Raker. If you do want to get up close and personal with Killa Kans, try a Commander armed with four Fusion Blasters- it'll do huge damage to that kind of unit, especially if it has Markerlight support. But really, the best choice against units with high toughness and wounds is the mighty Cyclic Ion Blaster, found on XV8s and Commanders. Also, you want to avoid XV8 teams with diverse wargear- unless you're restricted by points, take 8-9 of the same gun. Specialization is critical with interdiction units like XV8s.

Anyway, I'd be happy to discuss list-building with you, but I don't know what models you own. What does your collection look like?

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