Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

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Kindrin
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Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#1 » Nov 27 2013 08:04

This question is perhaps a matter of semantics or friendly/competitive play but do drop pods need to have their ramps fully deployed (read: bigger foot print) once they hit the table? It would greatly influence the size of the gaps I could have between my units in my deployment zone. I ask just because I was glancing at pictures posted on the GW site and realized my opponents have never deployed the ramps before.

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litanyoffail
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#2 » Nov 27 2013 08:54

Kindrin wrote:This question is perhaps a matter of semantics or friendly/competitive play but do drop pods need to have their ramps fully deployed (read: bigger foot print) once they hit the table? It would greatly influence the size of the gaps I could have between my units in my deployment zone. I ask just because I was glancing at pictures posted on the GW site and realized my opponents have never deployed the ramps before.

Using the drop pod doors as simply decoration, and not actually part of the model, solves many more problems/questions than doing it the other way around.

Deploying those doors more than doubles the footprint of the model making it nigh impossible to deep strike properly, and if they were considered part of the hull then the unit inside could deploy 2" off the end of a ramp, effectively making even a full 12" scatter negligible.

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O'Shaska
Shas'Ui
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#3 » Nov 27 2013 09:11

Litany is correct. However, I would like to point out that a unit inside a drop pod can disembark up to 6" from the hull, as per the new transport rules. So a 12" scatter is still somewhat negligible because, if you center your pod right on top of your target before rolling the scatter die, you will always be, at most, 6" away from said target. This is why drop pods are so much more amazing now than in 5th. Even then they were still pretty good.
Unity is a rock against the tides of conflict.

Kindrin
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Posts: 185

Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#4 » Nov 27 2013 09:32

Thanks for the answer. I would have been surprised if they had all been playing it incorrectly.

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Chris
Shas'La
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Posts: 199

Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#5 » Nov 28 2013 04:01

O'Shaska wrote:Litany is correct. However, I would like to point out that a unit inside a drop pod can disembark up to 6" from the hull, as per the new transport rules. So a 12" scatter is still somewhat negligible because, if you center your pod right on top of your target before rolling the scatter die, you will always be, at most, 6" away from said target. This is why drop pods are so much more amazing now than in 5th. Even then they were still pretty good.



Excuse the maybe foolish question, but you can't land on top of your target and then move just enough away to land properly, can you?

I thought you must pick a free landing zone which is away at least 1" from enemy models and is no impassable terrain as the normal deep strike rules say?

If you want to land on top of the enemy, and you roll the no scatter, than the unit will mishap, won't it?

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#6 » Nov 28 2013 05:35

Drop Pods only Mishap if they go off the board. Otherwise they move the minimum distance required for safety. This lets you place it 1" away from an enemy if you place it on top of a squad and don't scatter too much.

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boomwolf
Shas'La
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#7 » Nov 28 2013 05:44

Even though you can't mishap, your original target must still be a legal position. The drop pod cannot ADD scatter to avoid mishaps, only REDUCE it.

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Chris
Shas'La
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#8 » Nov 28 2013 09:11

boomwolf wrote:Even though you can't mishap, your original target must still be a legal position. The drop pod cannot ADD scatter to avoid mishaps, only REDUCE it.


This.

So you can't drop ON a target. Because of this, you can scatter "far away". A big deal in my opinion.

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E'nigma
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#9 » Nov 28 2013 09:56

CoffeeGrunt wrote:Drop Pods only Mishap if they go off the board. Otherwise they move the minimum distance required for safety. This lets you place it 1" away from an enemy if you place it on top of a squad and don't scatter too much.

You can also mishap if you scatter to less than 1" away from an enemy unit. The Drop Pods rules only kick in when you scatter on top of an enemy unit.

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Onerios
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Posts: 90

Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#10 » Nov 28 2013 10:02

At most then, the pod is 13 inches from the closest model, and in that case the closest model will be at 7", with most if not all within 9". Considering that the key ranges for drop are 12" and 6" (plasma and melta half range, the latter also serving as a good guide to be able to land hits with flamers), then you are still almost certain to be able to hit your target with your special weapons optimally. Shows how important proper deployment and chaff blocking is to negate the strength of pods.

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Xilfaen
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#11 » Dec 01 2013 05:00

Drop pods are somewhat annoying to handle, especially if you can still move the ramps (some people like to glue them).
While the mishap-correction is awesome, the ramps allow some shennanigans regarding LoS:

While the ramps are not part of the hull, you disembark up to 6' away from the actual hatches.
Nevertheless, lowered ramps make for excellent cover for a squad, and lowering only selected ramps can block LoS through the pod completely - and if I remember my BRB and Space Wolves Codex correctly, nothing is said about lowering the ramps.

But we should remember that almost every transport vehicle has ramps (which could be lowered - but most people glue them in place.)
In my gaming club, all kinds of movable ramps do NOT count as hull, so no increased footprints for drop pods.
If a pod has movable ramps (like mine), you can (but don't have to) lower them, but we still measure the 1' distance from the hull. Enemy models which would usually be underneath the ramps are placed on top and are neither in base contact nor in difficult terrain.

Nan'sha
Shas
Posts: 169

Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#12 » Dec 01 2013 08:01

The entry from Codex: Space Marines (rules, not fluff) states that once a drop pod has landed, "the hatches are blown". There's no indication you're allowed to leave the doors up to block LOS through the pod.

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#13 » Dec 01 2013 11:45

The rules for the drop pod model have rarely been spelled out definitively, but yes, it is generally agreed that the doors are always treated as decorative for the purposes of gameplay. This includes when they are open, and when they are closed. A door that cannot be opened is treated as open for the sake of determining LOS to a target, because all doors are assumed to be blown on landing, and all doors are excluded as part of the hull for measuring anything. Space marine players cannot measure off the door for determining deployment range, and likewise, opponents cannot measure from any door when determining what can be hit, charged, falls under a template, etc. In this respect, the doors are treated identically as spikes, trophy racks, banners, decorative basing, etc. albeit a very large and movable decoration, and are treated the same way.

EmperorNortonII
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#14 » Dec 20 2013 04:36

tehlegend wrote:The rules for the drop pod model have rarely been spelled out definitively, but yes, it is generally agreed that the doors are always treated as decorative for the purposes of gameplay. This includes when they are open, and when they are closed. A door that cannot be opened is treated as open for the sake of determining LOS to a target, because all doors are assumed to be blown on landing, and all doors are excluded as part of the hull for measuring anything. Space marine players cannot measure off the door for determining deployment range, and likewise, opponents cannot measure from any door when determining what can be hit, charged, falls under a template, etc. In this respect, the doors are treated identically as spikes, trophy racks, banners, decorative basing, etc. albeit a very large and movable decoration, and are treated the same way.


I'm not a fan of this. Logically, the doors will be down. It makes more sense for the doors to be forced to be open.

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El'mo
Shas'El
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Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#15 » Dec 21 2013 11:14

EmperorNortonII wrote:
tehlegend wrote:The rules for the drop pod model have rarely been spelled out definitively, but yes, it is generally agreed that the doors are always treated as decorative for the purposes of gameplay. This includes when they are open, and when they are closed. A door that cannot be opened is treated as open for the sake of determining LOS to a target, because all doors are assumed to be blown on landing, and all doors are excluded as part of the hull for measuring anything. Space marine players cannot measure off the door for determining deployment range, and likewise, opponents cannot measure from any door when determining what can be hit, charged, falls under a template, etc. In this respect, the doors are treated identically as spikes, trophy racks, banners, decorative basing, etc. albeit a very large and movable decoration, and are treated the same way.


I'm not a fan of this. Logically, the doors will be down. It makes more sense for the doors to be forced to be open.


tehlegend has summed it up nicely. Measurements are taken to/from the hull. The doors, when deployed, do not count as part of the hull. Cannon states that the doors are blown on landing, any that cannot be physically opened are assumed to be open for LOS.

Some modellers glue the doors shut whether for ease of assembly/simplicity or just because they have used all the internals for conversions. Sometimes the scenery does not allow for the door to be deployed - think city fights or where there are many models in close proximity. I would not want a marine player to crush my FW when he drops the doors. He may break that tiny antenna off the helmet!

Ricordis
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 340

Re: Deployed space marine drop pod ramps

Post#16 » Jan 19 2016 08:47

We houseruled it this way:

The Pod comes down with its doors closed (for measuring etc.)
As it lands it tries to open the doors/ramps/hatches. If they cant be opened because of reasons (models, terrain, table border, ...) you cant use the particular hatch to deploy the unit.

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