Necrons

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Kael'yn
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Re: Necrons

Post#21 » Jun 06 2014 11:13

Myrdin wrote:With the vehicle chart moving and thus nerfing the various weapons that can actually penetrate it, necron vehicles are now much more powerful with the quantum shielding. This should be countered with melta weaponry en mass, so having a single dedicated unit of C. suits with fusion blasters is a good idea.

Kael'yn wrote:Could you elaborate ? Nerfing was only on penetrating effects, not penetrating chances (to disable Quantum).

Myrdin wrote:To put it simply - due to the changes to the vehicle result chart - AP2 weapons can no longer penetrate. This is a HUUUGE nerf to all monstrous creatures (poor Tyranids, this and the Smash nerf hit them pretty hard).
The chart moved to a steeper condition.


Hummm... Re-read the Glancing/Penetrating shot conditions (not has changed since at least 5th), p75:
Roll a D6 and add the S of the weapon : Less than AV=Nothing, Equal to AV=Glancing, More than AV=Penetrating

Nothing to do with AP !!!
On the Penetrating effect, pp 75-76, you roll another D6 : AP3+ can no longer explode vehicle, AP2 explode them on a 6, AP1 on a 5 or a 6 (if the vehicle is not open-topped).

And Necrons Quantum Shield is still disabled on a penetrating shot (No FAQ about it), not an explosion.

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Myrdin
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Re: Necrons

Post#22 » Jun 09 2014 04:08

Hmm seems i´ve been had.
Or maybe we (the guys i play with) just got the ruling wrong. I aint got the rules, so all i learn is from playing others and asking about stuff during the game.

Also i wrote it badly in the previous comment - not "penetrate" but blow up, the vehicle.
Heh make a mistake on a forum and people chew you to death :P

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Necrons

Post#23 » Jun 09 2014 04:58

Don't forget that most Necron vehicles are Open-topped, such as the walker, Arks, and barges. These already add +1 to any penetrating shot. So a six from any weapon can cause an explodes result.

Czar ziggy

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Kael'yn
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Re: Necrons

Post#24 » Jun 09 2014 03:44

Myrdin wrote:Heh make a mistake on a forum and people chew you to death :P


Nom nom nom ... Just imagine you were on a Nid forum. They have better jaws... ;)

Be carefully to read the rules and not rely on others to read them for you (even if you don't have the BRB; it's easy to borrow one from a friend to read and learn some basics outside of a game).

Gefey
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Re: Necrons

Post#25 » Jun 22 2014 01:56

One consideration seems to have been overlooked, especially with the release of 7th ed: Fire Warrior melee.
Yes you read that correctly, melee. Haywire grenades are nothing short of a godsend for us to deal with chariots and other annoying vehicles . Since the necron player can now chose to allocate shooting based hits to either the chariot or the rider, small arms fire and large fire is nearly useless ( pulse rifle fire goes against the vehicle, melts and railhead go against that sexy invuln of the rider). However, you can choose where to allocate hits in CC with chariots. So a squad of FW all equipped with EMP grenades for a tiny bonus cost gives you nearly a glance or pen per every hit. Take 12 men into combat and you suddenly wreck the chariots right as they get into range of your army. On top of that, consolidation will usually allow you to spread out enough, ultimately preventing the chariot from reanimating, as he cannot physically place the model 1" away from your men (and it has to be 3" for where he last was) even if he decides to get back up.

As you can probably tell, chariots were the bane of my existence until I discovered this little trick, now no vehicle (Necron or otherwise) can get within 12" of any of my FW teams.

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Myrdin
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Re: Necrons

Post#26 » Jul 30 2014 03:19

Just recently i faced this same question.

Sadly i didnt have any EMP grenades as i was not expecting the list my opponent pulled out.

What i however had, was a full man unit of sniper drones.... and an Ethereal.

Once he closed the gap turn 2 with his chariot i greeted him with 27 sniper shots from that unit.
Only hits of 6 counted as those were precision shots targeted at the character, since Sniper rifle cant hurt a Necron chariot.
6 went into the character. Now i needed another 6 for rending.
Got 3 and one normal 4+ wound.
He failed 2 of the 3+ invul on the Ap2 and one normal (2+ save fail is hilarious :D ).
That unit paid for itself that very instant.

Kroot can work fine as well, since they can try to snipe a bit at the char normally, then overwatch and in the CC they are a Tarpit (if you go with 20 + some hounds). Overlord has only 3 attacks (4 on charge), so once the charge is done, he is stuck with you.
Its not uncommon to wiff one or two attacks per round, and your Kroot might get lucky.
If necessary the Ethereal can throw stubborn on them.
Now that 130+ points of Kroot tied a 230+ pts Character while your army cleanse rest of the table with pulse/rail/ion/missile/whatever else you desire fire.
Its not a 100% with the sniper rifles to succeed (hence the increased volume you get with Ethereal on the Drones to get better odds), but its better than investing a unit of Rail Broadsides or Hammerhead or two, just to get negated by that 3+ invul.

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Ma'lek
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Re: Necrons

Post#27 » Jan 25 2015 10:43

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the new Codex has in store. I've pre-ordered it, will read it and hopefully get back to this thread to give you honourable Shas'O's my initial scouting report on what has remained the same, what has changed and what it could mean to fight against them.

I've heard many rumours from previously reliable sources regarding many units in the Codex, but like all Pathfinders worth their salt I don't like going by speculation.

As for dealing with Catacomb Command Barge as they are right now, EMP grenades are the way to go. Not a very fluffy answer, as the unit will subsequently be ripped apart by the invariably Warscythe-wielding Overlord. But every now and then sacrifice is unfortunately necessary for the Greater Good. Could hold up that expensive HQ choice for a couple of turns if you're lucky too.
My love of rolling 1's knows no bounds.

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#28 » Feb 01 2015 11:52

Folks... I have some grim news.

Even in the past, the Tau have had limited luck against necrons. In my current meta, me and a necron player have been effectively even in our matches, but last battle it turned for the horribe. With the new codex, things got a LOT worse for us.

Yesterday was my first day fighting in a large game against the new dex (2400).

Here are some things for you to consider.

Wraiths are t 5 and 2 wounds. With their speed, CC abilities and 3++ save, we -really- don't have a good counter for them. They systematically tore through a team of stealth suits and proceeded to stomp a Riptide to bits. With several rounds of dedicated fire, I only managed to kill two out of his full squad.

A single warrior squad can be given the following fun profile: 5+ invul against all shooting, 4+ RP, fearless, preferred enemy. This squad took a FULL missile-side near-perfect shooting phase (20 warriors, destroyer lord, lord and cryptek) with a grand total of 24 (yes, perfect accuracy and perfect injury. GOOO Mirror codex and a ton of markerlights!) s 7 AP 4 wounds and 10 st 5 ap 5 wounds. Total casualties after all rolls had been made?
7. Seven warriors were taken out after the single most successful bombardment I have ever made in my time gaming. Any other squad would have taken FAR worse injuries or even been wiped off the surface of the board.

The squad continued to resist destruction for a further two turns until my R'Varna decided to stroll into CC and kill them in CC (if you ever encounter this build, they have NO close combat capacity...oh wait, neither do we...).

The Chariot rules screw us over even worse, sadly. Now that individual wounds are RAP'd, they can take any high AP wound on themself and have a 2+ armor, 4+ invul save AND a 5+ RAP save. Remember, it's individual wounds are RAP'd now, so actually dealing lasting damage is EXTREMELY difficult. Anything weaker than that goes on the chariot (for some reason THEY chose where the wounds go instead of being randomized, meaning the only way to deal real damage to the thing is to.. yes... go into CC).


Monoliths? they are monoliths. Not much has changed. edit: no more portal of exile (yay?)

The flyers? the small blast is a HUGE nerf instead of the beam attack.

I really need some help here. I just don't know how to take out the legions of AV13+ vehicles (I have a hammerhead, a team of riflesides, and a full crisis drop team, still doesn't seem to deal with it), invincible chariots, invincible wraiths,
and unkillable infantry.

I play farsight enclaves.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dal'yth Shas'len'ra
Shas'Ui
Posts: 203

Re: Necrons

Post#29 » Feb 01 2015 02:01

For Wraiths, I would drown them in pulse fire, I've found sniper drones work well for jobs like that, or you could go with fire warriors. Another options is to go with high strength large blast weapons, such as hammerhead Sub-munition rounds or Ion accelerator large blast.

Resurrection orbs can only be used once per game now, do each one of his independent characters in the warrior squad have one? For the warriors I would go with large blast templates, either hammerhead weapon or riptide ion accelerator.

I have found that since 7th edition my broadsides have been less effective verses Necrons(but mine don't seem to be good verses most armies ;) ), so I replaced them with another hammerhead.

I've found that 1 crisis bodyguard team with a Puretude engram chip armed with twin-linked fusion blasters plus shadowsun works well to take down anything in one turn. since you play enclaves maybe a commander armed similarly would work for you? I also bring a crisis squad armed with plasma and fusion.

I'n not familiar with their chariots so I can't say much about those, but I hope this helps.

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Kael'yn
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Posts: 1035

Re: Necrons

Post#30 » Feb 01 2015 02:07

Seeing you play Farsight.
Loyalists ;) tau have cheaper way to deal with necrons beasts: Firewarriors.

They tend to save me each time I faced Necrons because I take them in full squad (24 to 48 FW under 1500pts mostly) with an Ethereal. Invulnerable and FNP/RP of Wraiths or warriors don't resist for long against volume of fire. And is CC, their low Init make the +3I wargear of Wraiths useless.
Sniper drones may work, but they hit like FW on T5 and worser on T4, so it's not very useful (except for range and rending).

Wraiths are a bigger threat now than before, but I don't know their cost. Maybe this will lower their use on games.
My other big concern are the destroyers : now they can deepstrike and JSJ to hide their dangerous AP2/AP3 weapons.

For AV13 Quantum, a Riptide in CC, or a deep-strike dual fusion (or an infiltrated Fusion Stealth) do the job to soften the quantum, even blowing the open-topped vehicle.
Chariot is very good, but if the hits are decided to be taken against lord or chariot before hitting (I don't recall the way to choose), firewarriors or BC+drones can overcome the overlord saves. if they are done after hitting, using high Str and low AP like fusion at 18" or iontide make the lord less likely to take all on him.
Skyrays are good too with a volley of Seekers
Piranha schools are good too and with FB+seeker they can do a first strike volley, zooming to shoot rear and delivering twinlinked S5 shots drones to damage nearby units.

Missilesides on necrons are wasted IMHO on necrons (other than flying circus but less likely now). Railsides+plasma with ATS/seeker will help taking out the T4 crypteks or the weaker lords.

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