Necrons

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Necrons

Post#31 » Feb 01 2015 02:22

Don't forget that the back AV is still only 11 for Necrons, as the Quantum Shields still only boost front and side to 13.

Wraiths are actually cheaper overall. While individually, they went up 5 pts, all their upgrades were cut by 75% or more.

You'll also want to watch out for Stalkers now as their Targeting Relay has been changed from twin-linking other units shots against the target they shot at and now they just give out a +1 BS to any unit in a 6" bubble, and they can now be a squadron up to 3.

But most units will still fall to mass fire power. Lots and lots of massed fire power.

Czar Ziggy

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ARC'Thunder
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Re: Necrons

Post#32 » Feb 01 2015 02:30

Kael'yn wrote:Wraiths are a bigger threat now than before, but I don't know their cost. Maybe this will lower their use on games.
My other big concern are the destroyers : now they can deepstrike and JSJ to hide their dangerous AP2/AP3 weapons.

Wraiths were bumped up to cost as much as Destoyers now—who haven't changed in price—a slight point increase considering the amazing buffs of beasts, fleet and T5.

Another thing to consider is that Destroyers have also gained an additional wound; combined with new RAP and JSJ, they are extremely resilient and have a RAP save against things like our Railheads making ID an unreliable option.

Personally, I'm having a hard time understanding the price of Destroyers compared to our XV8s with Stims. How a BS4, T5, RAP (FnP+), PE model with a gauss cannon is only a few points more expensive than our BS3, T4, FnP, unarmed model is beyond me.

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RevRanDoM
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Re: Necrons

Post#33 » Feb 01 2015 02:43

Czar Ziggy wrote:But most units will still fall to mass fire power. Lots and lots of massed fire power.


This is my thought as well. I played a 1,500 point game against the new Necrons last night my two most effective shooting units were a unit of 6 stealths with two marker drones and a 9-strong unit of fire warriors.

Kael'yn wrote:Missilesides on necrons are wasted IMHO on necrons (other than flying circus but less likely now). Railsides+plasma with ATS/seeker will help taking out the T4 crypteks or the weaker lords.


I'm planning on experimenting with missilesides in my next game since my riflesides didn't so so well last night. That said, I didn't have ATSs on my broadsides, so I will have to consider adding those the next time around.

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#34 » Feb 01 2015 02:48

Problems with above posts.

Consider this situation.

Drop in double fusion team.

6 fusion shots at the 11 armor underbelly.

"I take it on my lord."

Suddenly, he has a 4+ unvul, 5+ RAP (lords being t5 now, no longer -1 RAP)

More often than not, he survives.

Fire warriors shooting (getting to rear armor is laughable)

"I take it on the chariot."

No damage can be dealt to armor 13 from pulse rifles.

Next round, he assaults, since he has S7 Ap2 attacks at the same Init as the suits, he kills them all with little problem. There is literally NO way to solve this issue. without utterly ignoring the rest of his army.

The biggest weakness necrons have is CC. Hammerheads (even with longstrike) are just not good enough at killing high AV armor, which pushes them to anti-infantry duty (which can be done better by other heavy support.) Remember, they have a 5+ invul against shooting, 5+ RAP, which can be re-rolled if they have the item.

Also, since their entire army works on Formations now, they can actually take as many res orbs as they like. So long as a formation has a unit that can take it, they can have multiple copies of their 'artifact' items. Remember kiddies, formations do NOT apply against force org!

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Necrons

Post#35 » Feb 01 2015 02:54

Well, there's always EMP commandos! :roll:

Czar Ziggy

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#36 » Feb 01 2015 02:56

Czar Ziggy wrote:Well, there's always EMP commandos! :roll:

Czar Ziggy



Yeah but--

*slowly, very very slowly looks over to his display case, where Shas'O R'Alai is sitting, forlorn and forgotten*

...Quantum Shielding is down on a glance isn't it...

*evil grin*

Won't work against the chariot, but it WILL give his other vehicles problems..

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Kael'yn
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Re: Necrons

Post#37 » Feb 01 2015 02:59

ARC'Thunder wrote:Personally, I'm having a hard time understanding the price of Destroyers compared to our XV8s with Stims. How a BS4, T5, RAP (FnP+), PE model with a gauss cannon is only a few points more expensive than our BS3, T4, FnP, unarmed model is beyond me.


They can only have 2 weapon options compared to multi-tool (and multi-weapons) crisis ?
Comparing prices between dex is not easy. It's points usefulness, slot competition, ... that need to be compared.
But I agree that they seems to good for their points (T5 crisis in the future with BS4 option please, else how to explain the BS3 to BS5 gap for commanders...)

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#38 » Feb 01 2015 03:02

I am pretty sure that everyone looks at our elites and wonders why in the world we only have bs3 on them when no other army but orks have such DREADFUL shooting abilities.

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Myrdin
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Re: Necrons

Post#39 » Feb 01 2015 05:36

Well then.... i recommend all of you to go and see some Necron reviews on youtube.
The new crons got boosted rather considerabely.

The wraiths are literally Disgusting cheesemode right now. +1 extra T, still keeping theri 3++ and now in formation they get 4++ FNP (its Reanimation but thats pretty much a FNP roll...), all that for like what... +5 cost ? Sick, and disgusting, this was a unit that required nerf, and got boosted instead. Guess GW needs to sell more canoptec stuff ...
Destroyers now JSJ... yeh there goes our only good thing. Also The whole army now can pretty much get BS5 and reroll to 1.
Lych guard got cheaper - finally, now the good mini will see actual table, very happy about it.

Will not get too deep into it, its too late and i have no time to write a proper fully informative post as i would love to do. As i said, go check youtube reviews. Overall the new Crons are Matt Wardish in every way even though he is gone for some time already. They can pretty much murder the new GK in most horrid fashion, and those guys are not weak to begin with. So yeh there you have it.
The only real counter we can do, is get allies, solo tau will suffer against some of the builds these guys can now throw out.

Wish i had 60 hormogaunt/orc boyz allies to chop those Wraith down...

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#40 » Feb 01 2015 05:41

Whoh. Wait.

Wraiths with FNP!?

What the hell is this??

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ARC'Thunder
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Re: Necrons

Post#41 » Feb 01 2015 06:44

Myrdin wrote:The wraiths are literally Disgusting cheesemode right now. +1 extra T, still keeping theri 3++ and now in formation they get 4++ FNP (its Reanimation but thats pretty much a FNP roll...), all that for like what... +5 cost ?
Zelnik wrote:Whoh. Wait.

Wraiths with FNP!?

What the hell is this??
There is a formation in the book, Canoptek Harvest, that consists of at least one Spyder, some Scarabs and some Wraiths. It allows the Spyder(s) to pick one of three special rules every turn, and it confers this special rule onto itself and any unit from the formation that is within 12" of the Spyder. One of these is Reanimation Protocols.

When this formation is taken as a part of the new Decurion Detachment—basically an FOC that exchanges individual units for small, cheap formations—the Command Benefit gives all models in the detachment a +1 bonus to RAP in addition to any bonuses their formations already provide. Hence, a 4+ RAP.



Edit: Clarification.
  • Decurion Detachment: Unlike the Detachments shown in Warhammer 40,000: The Rules, it has a Force Organisation Chart whose slots are a combination of specific Formations and Army List Entries instead of Battlefield Roles. Models in this Detachment with the Reanimation Protocols special rule receive a +1 bonus to Reanimation Protocols rolls.
  • Canoptek Harvest Formation: Choose one of the following special rules: Fleet, Reanimation Protocols, Shred. The Spyder from this Formation, and all units from this Formation within 12" of the Spyder from this Formation, benefit from the effects of the chosen special rule


It's a shame that RAP works against Instant Death, the proliferation of T5 multi-wound models was something I suspected would help put Railheads back onto the table as reliable snipers.

Zelnik wrote:...Quantum Shielding is down on a glance isn't it...
Sadly, no. Quantum Shielding is still active "until it suffers a penetrating hit".

Kael'yn wrote:
ARC'Thunder wrote:Personally, I'm having a hard time understanding the price of Destroyers compared to our XV8s with Stims. How a BS4, T5, RAP (FnP+), PE model with a gauss cannon is only a few points more expensive than our BS3, T4, FnP, unarmed model is beyond me.

They can only have 2 weapon options compared to multi-tool (and multi-weapons) crisis ?
Comparing prices between dex is not easy. It's points usefulness, slot competition, ... that need to be compared.
But I agree that they seems to good for their points (T5 crisis in the future with BS4 option please, else how to explain the BS3 to BS5 gap for commanders...)
Normally I would defend our incredible versatility in loadouts, but even adding a single flamer would push us over the edge. And the versatility of the Gauss Cannon (and sheer power of a Heavy Gauss Cannon) cannot be denied; auto-wounding and glancing on 6s, a respectable S and AP, with two shots at 24". There is little that gun can't do, even if it cannot specialize in any one thing the way our suit-mounted weapons do.

Also, I too miss the nice scaling we lost with Shas'els and Targeting Arrays. And I still feel that XV88's should be T5 considering the size of the model and, if I'm not mistaken, the old fluff had their armor as iridium-based which would be a nice justification for increased toughness.

Zelnik wrote:I am pretty sure that everyone looks at our elites and wonders why in the world we only have bs3 on them when no other army but orks have such DREADFUL shooting abilities.
The only real justification for our lack of access to BS4 is, what I believe to be, a fairly elegant solution to promote markerlight expenditure and a sense of balance.

Fluff wise, shas should all be BS4 minimum considering they are subjected to the same life-long training expected of any Imperial soldier attending the Schola Progenium with the supplies and equipment to rival Scions ;) .
Last edited by ARC'Thunder on Feb 01 2015 09:54, edited 1 time in total.

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RevRanDoM
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Re: Necrons

Post#42 » Feb 01 2015 07:35

There is a formation that you can take for wraiths that gives them reanimation protocols. I didn't realize it got boosted up to 4++, though.

Edit: spyder scarab and wraith = canoptek harvest. Starts out at 5++ but can be boosted to 4++.

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#43 » Feb 01 2015 09:10

:eek:

:::(

Well, in that case... Guess it's time to just paint my minis and hope that we will get formations at some time, beyond the Amazing, but limited Firebase Support Cadre.

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#44 » Feb 01 2015 09:52

Some good news, at least against the catacomb command barge.

Blast weapons and templates are -always- performed against the chariot (as by the rules) and precision strikes are chosen by the attacker.

Remember, independant characters have the precision strike special rule!

Also, it makes the R'varna the perfect killer of these chariots with a little markerlight support (especially to negate his jink, and to assure 100% accuracy) Also, the chariot doesn't have reanimation protocols and there are NO special rules that let it come back. Hit the chariot, kill the chariot, the lord dies without a single RAP roll.

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ARC'Thunder
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Re: Necrons

Post#45 » Feb 01 2015 10:04

Zelnik wrote:Remember, independant characters have the precision strike special rule!
This is incorrect. In 7th edition, characters no longer have precision shots or precision strikes by default—they certainly aren't listed as benefits on BRB pages 100 (Characters) or 166 (Independent Characters). Unless one or both of them are conferred as USRs (aptly named Precision Shot or Precision Strike) through wargear or a unit entry, the model does not have them.

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#46 » Feb 01 2015 10:16

Aw bugger.

Still. We have options.

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Myrdin
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Re: Necrons

Post#47 » Feb 02 2015 12:48

Zelnik wrote:Well, in that case... Guess it's time to just paint my minis and hope that we will get formations at some time, beyond the Amazing, but limited Firebase Support Cadre.


Exactly

I don't understand what the hell happened at GW. At first the new books didnt have any formations, at all. Then suddenly Bam, every single new dex since ... DE ? had some kind of uber nonsensical formation (looking at you GK, looking at you). Now the Crons pushed that even further...
I mean in all fairness GW should throw in some "free to download rules" like they did for the new NID models, where we would be eligible to some new formations that could actually do something for us. The Firebase is nice but extremely limited in use, and goes only for Broadsides.... Crisis suits, Piranha-Stealth teams, Fire Warriors, Kroot-Vespid, etc.. So many option for awesome formations just waiting to be explored...

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Keeper
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Re: Necrons

Post#48 » Feb 02 2015 02:30

We're definitely going to face a lot of wraiths in the near future due to the massive boost they received :neutral: However, massed pulse fire should solve the problem quite well :biggrin:

I agree that there are numerous possibilities for Tau Formations but I doubt that we're going to get any new ones for a while :sad:

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