Necrons

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Necrons

Post#51 » Feb 02 2015 05:57

I think you nailed it Nic. The spider is going to have to be the priority target in this formation as it provides the RAP save. And if you do go first, it won't have had the chance to pick the rule yet. And its only 3W. Marker light support and heavy weapons will kill it.

Czar Ziggy

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Keeper
Shas
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Re: Necrons

Post#52 » Feb 02 2015 06:09

I also agree that killing the spiders early is key to deal with the wraiths which are then likely going to suffer severe casualties from massed pulse fire combined with markerlight support :fear:

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Zelnik
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Re: Necrons

Post#53 » Feb 02 2015 11:41

A few things to remember when dealing with this formation.

1. There are wraiths in the squad.

2. See above.

3. Spyders are low to the ground and VERY easy to hide behind LOS blocking cover

4. The whole squad is relentless. If the Necron player is smart, he will load his wraiths up with Transdimensional Beamers instead of the usual choice. (+3 int and one additional attack doesn't mean much when you have base 3, and rending already).

5. Formations ignore force org, so they can take as many rez orbs as they like, and as many formations of Canoptek harvest as they like.

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Carrelio
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Re: Necrons

Post#54 » Feb 03 2015 01:40

Zelnik wrote:A few things to remember when dealing with this formation.

1. There are wraiths in the squad.

2. See above.

3. Spyders are low to the ground and VERY easy to hide behind LOS blocking cover

4. The whole squad is relentless. If the Necron player is smart, he will load his wraiths up with Transdimensional Beamers instead of the usual choice. (+3 int and one additional attack doesn't mean much when you have base 3, and rending already).

5. Formations ignore force org, so they can take as many rez orbs as they like, and as many formations of Canoptek harvest as they like.


Please excuse my ignorance as I have not yet encountered the new necrons in a game; is the formation a single unit or is it still separate units that just function together like some of our formation options? If it's the former then perhaps the double burst cannon with ATS battlesuits might be in order to prioritize the spyder's as targets more effectively (maybe even the sniper-side?)?

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Kael'yn
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Re: Necrons

Post#55 » Feb 03 2015 03:15

ARC'Thunder wrote:Are any of our mathematicians or statisticians available to confirm these numbers? This seems to eliminate the idea that small arms fire is a reasonable method for wearing down the Necrons. What sort of other options do we really have? We have plenty of higher strength weapons, but we're no longer able to spam S10 to force IDs against them (the new RAP does take a -1 penalty when making a save against ID wounds as well) and can the other strengths be taken in enough numbers to make it worth it?


I run some numbers in my tools (developpement is still chaotic due to a full time job):
The best tools to kill Wraiths (ML unassisted) is Missilesides, others are a choice between wounds, price and free slots:

Vs 1xWraith with 4+ RP (avgW=average Wound, ppW=points per wound), sorted by ppW :
3xXV88+HYMP+SMS = 2,00 avgW, 98ppW (only one average Wraith killed by 3 missilesides !)
12xFW, 2 shots= 1.00 avgW, 108ppW
3xXV8+TL-BC+BC+6drones+DC= 2.00 avgW, 109ppW
1xShas'O+2BC+DC+2drones, joining 12xDrone squad= 2.89 avgW, 109ppw

Now with 2ML (BS5 for most of units):
12xFW, 3 shots= 2.50 avgW, 63ppW (added Ethereal to cost of unit for Storm of fire, but cost can be more efficient if shared with others units)
3xXV88+HYMP+SMS = 2,59 avgW, 75ppW
3xXV8+TL-BC+BC+6drones+DC= 2.78 avgW, 79ppW

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Necrons

Post#56 » Feb 03 2015 05:03

Carrelio wrote:
Zelnik wrote:A few things to remember when dealing with this formation.

1. There are wraiths in the squad.

2. See above.

3. Spyders are low to the ground and VERY easy to hide behind LOS blocking cover

4. The whole squad is relentless. If the Necron player is smart, he will load his wraiths up with Transdimensional Beamers instead of the usual choice. (+3 int and one additional attack doesn't mean much when you have base 3, and rending already).

5. Formations ignore force org, so they can take as many rez orbs as they like, and as many formations of Canoptek harvest as they like.


Please excuse my ignorance as I have not yet encountered the new necrons in a game; is the formation a single unit or is it still separate units that just function together like some of our formation options? If it's the former then perhaps the double burst cannon with ATS battlesuits might be in order to prioritize the spyder's as targets more effectively (maybe even the sniper-side?)?


It is like a regular formation, separate units, but the Spyder may select a special rule during the Necron movement phase and any other unit from that formation within 12" of the Spyder gains the rule as well. The Spyder may choose; Reanimation Protocol, Fleet, or Shred.

Czar Ziggy

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Morollan
Shas
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Re: Necrons

Post#57 » Feb 03 2015 05:15

Zelnik wrote:4. The whole squad is relentless. If the Necron player is smart, he will load his wraiths up with Transdimensional Beamers instead of the usual choice. (+3 int and one additional attack doesn't mean much when you have base 3, and rending already).

5. Formations ignore force org, so they can take as many rez orbs as they like, and as many formations of Canoptek harvest as they like.


4. Whip Coils don't give an extra attack and Transdimensional beamers are very expensive, adding 25% to the cost of the model.

5. Res Orbs are from the Technoarcana list and none of the models in the Canoptek Harvest formation have access to that list.

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Czar Ziggy
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Re: Necrons

Post#58 » Feb 03 2015 09:18

Plus rez orbs only work for the model holding it and any unit arched to it. There are no longer any bubble effects.

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: Necrons

Post#59 » Feb 03 2015 03:56

Zelnik wrote:A few things to remember when dealing with this formation.

1. There are wraiths in the squad.

2. See above.

3. Spyders are low to the ground and VERY easy to hide behind LOS blocking cover

4. The whole squad is relentless. If the Necron player is smart, he will load his wraiths up with Transdimensional Beamers instead of the usual choice. (+3 int and one additional attack doesn't mean much when you have base 3, and rending already).

5. Formations ignore force org, so they can take as many rez orbs as they like, and as many formations of Canoptek harvest as they like.


1. Yes indeed.
2. Do not ignore the scarabs - they can rip stuff up pretty quickly if you do.
3. The trick will be to get the formation across the table while keeping the spyder hidden long enough. I think that will take a bit of skill
4. S4 AP2 with a bit of Instant Death is not nothing but nor is it cheap
5. Hard to find models that can carry res orbs that would not slow the wraiths down and you are seriously increasing the total cost to put it on the table. It is another thing that will take skill to make it work and pay back the cost.

The other big thing about it being a formation is that anyone can take it - not just Necrons - and as Allies of Convenience it would work perfectly alongside Tau.

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Zelnik
Shas
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Re: Necrons

Post#60 » Feb 03 2015 06:55

We need our own formations beyond the Firebase Support cadre...

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