Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
User avatar
samuraioshovah
Shas
Posts: 509
Contact:

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#101 » Apr 17 2014 08:49

Hey good eyes :biggrin: He saw the Hammerheads and decided that was the bigger threat. Especially when he figured the Crisis Suits weren't going to do the job. Next I give up Fusion Blaster / Missile Pod combos because he has tons of flyers (Vendettas)!

Tau Turn:

4 Hammerheads Are on the North Flank in Range he throws up the shield. The Crisis suits have flanked him on the rear side.
Tau Shooting drops him to 1 HP

Imperial Turn:

His Knight goes Bananas with the Battle Cannon smoking another Crisis Suit team with a dead on hit, then he decides to charge the suits, in Overwatch they finish him off. Well played turn. Lost 6 Crisis Suits out of 15 but we demolished a flank.
Mobile Armor Division...71-12-11 2014 Season 14-4-3

User avatar
Das'Kyman
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1161

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#102 » Jun 03 2014 08:09

This is something of an old thread, but I'm bringing up the new Cerastus Knight that Forgeworld just released.

The rules can be found on Forgeworld's website. The rules also went straight to 40k approved, unlike our "Experimental" rules for the R'varna. I wonder if this will be the new norm, also I am now contacting FW to see if our R'varna's rules will be 40k approved soon. Regardless, these things are legal Now unless you are banning FW altogether.

Needless to say, this new model excels in close combat. It is more expensive than the other two variants and is very fast (fast enough to catch a Riptide. It has more attacks, higher Initiative on the turn it charges, and is no slouch in the shooting phase either. It's shield is only slightly less useful against shooting attacks, but is top notch in close combat, especially against other Superheavy walkers.

Depending on deployment and run rolls, this thing could be charging our units on turn 2. Many people play aggressively with their Riptides, and that would be playing right into this thing's hand. It excels at killing single targets, and even its ranged attack could easily cause 2-3 wounds on a Riptide. Thankfully, its rear arc is entirely unprotected by the Ion shield, so our Deep Striking Sunforge teams will be more effective against it.

Here is something that I noticed right away: It has a special rule called 'Flank Speed', which is the exact same name as one of the R'varna's Nova charge abilities. But the Cerastus' version is different. The R'varna's grants Fleet and a 2D6 run move, but the Cerastus' only grants a 3D6 run move.
I find it rather sad that our experimental and highly potent power source (R'varna Nova Reactor) has to overcharge to do what the Cerastus can do all the time, with huge diesel engines. Ironically, our unpredictable Nova Reactor produces more consistent results than the Cerastus'

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#103 » Jun 03 2014 09:19

Rear Armour 12? Ouch, that makes dropping behind it a little less effective, but still the best way of dealing with it. That gun will tear holes in almost anything it shoots at other than vehicles.

User avatar
boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#104 » Jun 03 2014 09:22

Deepstrike fusion saves the day then. even with 12 on the back, no ion shield and quite impossible to get cover-means its melta bait.

Especially considering the lancer has to get REALLY close to get anything done, as he does not even have a backup cannon, "just" a short-range supergun.

He will charge you quickly, and has enough attacks to do a number on anything, but as I learned-knights REALLY don't like fire warriors with EMP grenades. they make amazing anti-walker defense, superheavy or otherwise.

User avatar
Jochmann
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 413
Contact:

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#105 » Jun 03 2014 09:42

You know that EMP works against superheavies only on 6+?

User avatar
Das'Kyman
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1161

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#106 » Jun 03 2014 10:02

Jochmann wrote:You know that EMP works against superheavies only on 6+?
Really? I can't find that rule. All I can see is that super-heavies lose HP to glancing hits like normal, and that haywires glance or penetrate on 2+.

boomwolf wrote:Deepstrike fusion saves the day then. even with 12 on the back, no ion shield and quite impossible to get cover-means its melta bait.

Especially considering the lancer has to get REALLY close to get anything done, as he does not even have a backup cannon, "just" a short-range supergun.

He will charge you quickly, and has enough attacks to do a number on anything, but as I learned-knights REALLY don't like fire warriors with EMP grenades. they make amazing anti-walker defense, superheavy or otherwise.

EMP's do seem to be the weapon of choice against these superheavies, but the Lancer has Hammer of Wrath, more attacks and a 5+ invul in combat, so fewer and fewer EMP hits are going to get through.
He only has a relatively short range on his gun, but with the superheavy walker move of 12" he can threaten anything within 30". And even if he doesn't shoot he is moving an extra 3D6 on top of that! Scary! :dead:
Perhaps EMP's will work if you can bait him in with another unit, then you can countercharge with a couple nearby FW teams.

This guy looks like he needs the Fusion treatment. After all, no Ion shield on the rear arc is a pretty big vulnerability. The problem is delivery. He'll be charging turn 2 most often, so we have to have first turn AND get our fusion drop teams immediately to use them on him.

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#107 » Jun 03 2014 10:26

EMP's do seem to be the weapon of choice against these superheavies, but the Lancer has Hammer of Wrath, more attacks and a 5+ invul in combat, so fewer and fewer EMP hits are going to get through.


Best hope is to try and get it to charge you in Cover, but if your opponent knows you're packing EMP Grenades, that simply isn't going to happen.

Perhaps Piranhas as a swift, counteracting Fusion platform will work? They're fairly resilient against its main weapon as well. Either that, or Shadowsun Infiltrating, though this would be a very easy way to lose Shadowsun early in the game.

Or you could always pray that a Rail Rifle or Gun gets a lucky Pen in the opening rounds...

User avatar
Jochmann
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 413
Contact:

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#108 » Jun 03 2014 10:37

Da Skyman wrote:Really? I can't find that rule. All I can see is that super-heavies lose HP to glancing hits like normal, and that haywires glance or penetrate on 2+.

Interesting. It seems I have played it wrong, as I can't find this (EMPonly 6+) rule now. I think I have mixed it up with the rules for Gargantuan Creatures.

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#109 » Jun 03 2014 10:47

Yeah, Gargs can only be Wounded on 6s by Poison/Snipers. It would make sense to have Haywire act the same way against Superheavy Vehicles, but apparently not.

User avatar
Das'Kyman
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1161

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#110 » Jun 03 2014 11:00

Humph. Apparently there is no more love for the Tau. It was fun while it lasted.
Forgeworld Email Response wrote:We will publish the rules for the R'varna in an official sense as soon as an appropriate book is produced. Up until that time they will remain in the Experimental phase as their rules may yet change unlike the Cerastus Knight Lancer.

So I guess you only get 40k approved rules right out of the gate on a model by model basis. The R'varna apparently has to wait for some other book before it will actually be legal.

What about Fusion Cascades? I had a team of 3 XV-9's kill a Baneblade outright. They are expensive but they have a higher rate of fire than a Fusion Blaster (most of the time). A pair of them might actually kill it if you gave them some MLS, though that is over 200 points in XV9 :?
Fusion Cascades are generally a bad buy, but now that heavy vehicles will start showing up again...

Just need them to make FW legal for FSE.

User avatar
ARC'Thunder
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 850

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#111 » Jun 03 2014 11:23

Da Skyman wrote:Humph. Apparently there is no more love for the Tau. It was fun while it lasted.
Forgeworld Email Response wrote:We will publish the rules for the R'varna in an official sense as soon as an appropriate book is produced. Up until that time they will remain in the Experimental phase as their rules may yet change unlike the Cerastus Knight Lancer.

So I guess you only get 40k approved rules right out of the gate on a model by model basis. The R'varna apparently has to wait for some other book before it will actually be legal.

What about Fusion Cascades? I had a team of 3 XV-9's kill a Baneblade outright. They are expensive but they have a higher rate of fire than a Fusion Blaster (most of the time). A pair of them might actually kill it if you gave them some MLS, though that is over 200 points in XV9 :?
Fusion Cascades are generally a bad buy, but now that heavy vehicles will start showing up again...

Just need them to make FW legal for FSE.
To be fair, the Cerastus did have a publication with its rules, Horus Heresy Book 3. So it does have a book, just not a strictly 40k one.

In regards to unit availability for FSE, I was fairly certain the new rulebook established a relationship between codices and supplements that supported FW models. I haven't my rulebook with me at work, but the army selection section has pseudo-definitions of those terms.

User avatar
AngryAlbatross
Shas
Posts: 133

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#112 » Jun 03 2014 01:38

Does Blind work on vehicles? Could you maybe blind it with photon grenades and then charge it with emp grenades?

User avatar
CoffeeGrunt
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 1122

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#113 » Jun 03 2014 01:51

They count as WS1 anyway unless they moved Flat Out.

User avatar
Das'Kyman
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1161

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#114 » Jun 03 2014 02:08

It can Blind the vehicles, but Knights have a pretty decent Initiative so you can't be too hopeful.
If you manage a Blind, and then assault it, then you'll have a few advantages:
First-the Cerastus can only hit our FW's on a 4+ instead of 3+, so some more FW's might survive to get in their EMP attacks
Second-our FW's will hit on a 3+ instead of a 5+ so even more EMP hits.
Third-after he stomps the FW's his next shooting will be at BS1, and his next combat will also be at WS1 if he charges into one (Blind lasts until the end of the target's next turn)

User avatar
Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1012

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#115 » Jun 03 2014 09:23

Blind works on anything with an Initiative value, ie the Knight.

User avatar
Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#116 » Aug 03 2014 03:17

Interesting readthrough.

Yeh the Knight is pretty tough, but luckily for us, we have pretty solid options for cracking up that armor.
The EMP fire warriors actually sound like a damn funny thing to do, to be completely honest. Maybe even put them into DFish to get em out there as soon as possible.

Also, might be interesting to use the concept of allies and take a Knight of our own. Have you guys tried an Imperial Knight ally ?
Must look immensely good on the table - Knight in the middle, two Riptides at each side, and then two hammerheads in the back.

On the side note - just the idea of customizing an Imperial Knight, with proper Tau bitz, and doing some good old kit bashing makes droll at the possible "someone called for a baddy ?" options you could go with.

User avatar
MODELGLUE Eio'Y
Kor'El
Kor'El
Posts: 1277

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#117 » Aug 04 2014 07:50

Not a bad idea Myrdin, the creative possibilities are indeed endless when it comes to allies. :) We might see a Knight Ally Tactica or a modelling thread/presentation in the future unless I have already missed one.

Please watch the use of expletives in the future, I have edited your post to a more family friendly alternative. :)

User avatar
Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#118 » Aug 04 2014 11:19

modelglue wrote:Not a bad idea Myrdin, the creative possibilities are indeed endless when it comes to allies. :) We might see a Knight Ally Tactica or a modelling thread/presentation in the future unless I have already missed one.

Please watch the use of expletives in the future, I have edited your post to a more family friendly alternative. :)


Apologies.
Didn't know the parent control on this forum is strict to the extent as to label a word commonly spoken (and actually not even counted as insult in the urban dictionary) as "toxic"

I shall however try to be more careful and watch my vocab. from now on, you have my word ! ;)

Return to “Engaging the Alien”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest