Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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reconjsh
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Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#141 » Nov 24 2014 01:41

Thanks!!! Looking forward to seeing how close I am. ;)

Yes, you're right... I removed that % number. :evil:

Recon.
My Cadre Log - [need better pictures]

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#142 » Nov 24 2014 03:14

Jochmann wrote:
reconjsh wrote:Initiative 4:
Imperial Knight vs. Invulnerable Save - 0.625 "D3" Unsaved Wounds, 6.944% chance of Remove from play


That's not correct. As D-Weapons are treated as having S10 for the purpose of instant death, it is a 62.5% chance of Remove from play - if it is not hitting the drones. I will check your numbers later today, including the drones. First, I have to do my math-homework, though...


I think this is the reason why adding a bodyguard to the unit is so valuable - s/he can bring along some more shield drones and all those drones then auto-succeed on their LoS attempts. Now this does make the unit more expensive than a single Knight but I would probably do most of my damage to a single knight with shooting - having a unit capable of dealing with multiple Knights over the duration of the game looks like a decent investment.

Not to open an old can of worms but by very literal RAW the bodyguard can bring along the PEN and even an Onager Gauntlet - although keeping it cheap so you can sacrifice him/her to keep one of the HQ alive is a perfectly valid option.

It is also worth bearing in mind that having the commander as your warlord may be a good option here as this is not all about the perfect deep-strike. A couple of the FSE warlord traits would be relevant and useful - as might be some of the personal traits.

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Jochmann
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Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#143 » Nov 24 2014 05:31

Jochmann wrote:First, I have to do my math-homework, though...

Made a mistake. It was tough, not though. Halfway done yet, doing the rest tomorrow morning. In the afternoon/evening I'll then do the "fun"math, my apologies.

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Jochmann
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Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#144 » Nov 25 2014 11:51

So, the math is done:

Assumptions: As I am trying to emulate how much damage is inflicted, I weigh the likeliness of hits with the amount of hits. Neither is attacking and the unit consists of Commander Farsight, a Fusionblade Commander and two Shield drones vs. a regular (read non-FW) Imperial Knight.

1. Farsight attacks:
4 attacks x 2/3 chance to hit (conveniently the number of hits negates the chance potential, so this easy formula works) x 1/6 (glancing hit)
+ 4 x 2/3 x 5/12 x 5/6 (penetrating hit without explodes)
+ 4 x 2/3 x 5/12 x 1/6 x 2,5 (penetrating with explodes)
= 96/216 + 200/216 + 100/216 = 396/216
= 1,833 points of damage
2. Knight attacks:
3 attacks x 2/3 (the drones low WS) x 5/6 x 1/2 (shield save)
30/36 = 0,8 wounds
3. Fusionmander attacks
4 x 1/2 x 1/9 (glancing hit)
+ 4 x 1/2 x 13/18 x 5/6 (penetrating hit without explodes)
+ 4 x 1/2 x 13/18 x 1/6 x 2,5
= 48/216 + 260/216 + 180/216 = 488/216
= 2,25 points of damage
4. Knight stomps:
1/6 chance of total annihilation
2/3 x 4 x 5/6 x 1/2 (drones save) = 1,111

Total:
- 2 drones dead + 17% likeliness of all Tau annihilated
- 4 Hullpoints destroyed

Conclusion: After one turn, both drones will likely be destroyed and with a 17% chance the whole unit will be gone without any saves.
The Knight will have lost 2/3 of his hull points and Farsight will most likely finish him the next turn, if he wasn't stomped to a fine paste on the ground.
It seems to be a valid tactic to engage a Knight with both Farsight and a Blademander, only one of them won't do it. Better than Farsight would be Brightblade plus a Blademander, but the difference isn't that big. If the Tau had attacked, averagely a fifth hullpoint would be gone, but the Knight would survive. If the Knight had attacked, one of the Commanders would be dead, too, so beware of charging Knights.

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Vay
Shas'Ui
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Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#145 » Nov 25 2014 01:17

Having killed a few knights, what I find works:

Riptide
Deathrain Team
Rest of army

Your Riptide presents the forward element and at distance engages the the Knight. Your army hides and evades the knights fire and keeps about its day winning the war.
Your deathrain team is positioned to flank or Deepstrike.

Melee is where this monster gets its points back. NEVER let that happen.

He is also often played as "the spear" of a force, so side flanking is fairly easy.

Base size alone makes him check for across field movement for most of his moves, you have 6 Plus JSJ for your forces.

I have also had some effect with 2 sky rays/ 2 hammerheads. Rays on flank (like Deathrains) and the Hammers split up but on point. The invuln sucks, but rail rounds can score some sick damage fast. And at mid field, 2 full seeker batteries finish the job if the hammers did not. Dpods and cover render most of its fire useless.
Shas'O Kais Vay Shone’nan

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reconjsh
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Re: Imperial Knights - A new foe on the horizon...

Post#146 » Nov 25 2014 01:21

Thanks! Told ya I stunk at stats. I see now that I messed up Farsight's Weapon Skill. I went back and edited my post and referenced your numbers instead.

So, seems like a good combo, especially since you should get at least one shooting phase prior to a charge. I like it because it's even points... ~370 each. And, if you win, you get to go attack something else. :)

Vay - I was just sharing a combo that happened to work me and then posited that it was a sound tactic. Seems like it might be with proper setup.

I'm going to try this out more, maybe doing some simulations by myself instead of wasting an afternoon playing someone else to just try out a failed idea.

Recon.
My Cadre Log - [need better pictures]

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