Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
User avatar
Sa'Ran'Sha
Shas
Posts: 43

Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#1 » Aug 04 2014 10:16

I did a search and couldn't quite find what I was looking for so I thought I'd start a discussion about something I feel to be fairly dangerous from the human marine arsenal.

I recently played a couple matches against a friend of mine where he employed the tactic of a hard hitting, turn one, alpha strike on some of my key units. Being that he and I both use quite a few forgeworld models, the main threat he threw out was a Contemptor ( F13 S12 R10) with a melta that would obliterate Longstrike. While I understand missilesides with EWO and IA Riptides with EWO can work, I just feel like maybe there's something I'm missing/not doing. Between the contemptor and a melee team of SM on turn 1, it's a little overwhelming.

Any suggestions on how to deal with this tactic? Seems like a pretty consistent deployment by the astartes.
"Through Boldness, Victory"

User avatar
Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#2 » Aug 05 2014 02:28

Stick the TL Fusion Blaster on your Intercepting Riptide.

Also if you have enough suits - run the Fire support cadre formation. 3 Broadsides with HYMP 3 HRR. You get Tank hunters from the formation, and preferred enemy Space Marines (which does not matter for the Broadsides though). That should be more than take him out.

But i am not sure about assaulting from drop pod. After all it is a transport vehicle (and i am not sure if it has the Assault Ramp or whatnot). This is not in the vanilla codex is it ? (since you mentioned FW, there might be a version that allows assaulting)

User avatar
Sa'Ran'Sha
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#3 » Aug 05 2014 03:47

They typically can't assault after arriving by drop pod, but that initial attack (pending rolls) can be pretty harmful, even possibly crippling a counter attack. I don't have much experience with the formation, does it allow for the broadsides to take EWO?
"Through Boldness, Victory"

User avatar
Bitterman
Shas
Posts: 909

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#4 » Aug 05 2014 05:12

Sa'Ran'Sha wrote:Any suggestions on how to deal with this tactic? Seems like a pretty consistent deployment by the astartes.


Yeah, drop pods can be pretty nasty. The biggest problem they pose is that they can land wherever they want, and can move to avoid mishaps that deep strikes normally suffer from.

The defence against that is to at least force him to move away from where he wants to be. Remember that he can only place the drop pod where there is room for it to go - which includes folding out the doors - and that it must remain 1" away from your troops and cannot land in terrain. It's not clear from your post whether he's using the proper Dreadnaught Drop Pod model (which is a bit larger than the normal one), technically he should be but many don't enforce it (it doesn't really matter much, it just makes your opponent spend more money which isn't very nice!).

With that in mind: assuming Longstrike is your unit most at threat from this tactic, consider placing him near a table edge (drop pods can't land off-table) within say 3" of a ruin on one side (drop pods can't land within terrain, or 1" of your models ) with a unit of Fire Warriors in front and Kroot to one side, all spread out to the maximum 2" coherency (again, the pod can't land within 1" of your models). 12 Fire Warriors and/or 20 Kroot can cover a huge area at full 2" coherency, with 1" bases and a 1" exclusion zone! (In times past this was known as a "Kroot bubble", search for that to find more info). The details will vary depending on your available units and the terrain on your table, but basically you want to cover as much surface area as possible, without any gaps for the pod to land in.

When he places the pod, if you've positioned your models well he should be unable to place it very close to the target - remember that 1" minimum distance, and the doors count. Remember also that if it scatters to somewhere that it can't be placed, although it doesn't mishap it is moved the minimum possible shortest distance to where it can be placed (which is not the same as "whichever direction he wants to put it in a better position"!). Furthermore, if the pod lands only 1" away from your troops, then when the Contemptor gets out, it won't be able to get out towards Longstrike because there's models in the way, so it'll have to go a different way ie. get out of a different door. All these things matter.

If all goes well, then when the pod lands, it and its Contemptor payload will be far enough away from Longstrike not to get the melta bonus, and you certainly should get a cover save from intervening units (and you may also benefit from a disruption pod and night-fight). You should even be able to predict where it's going to end up, and ensure that position is covered by your Intercept units that you already mentioned.

In summary: by positioning your models appropriately, you can prevent him from bringing the drop pod in where he wants it (ie. near your key units), and predict with some accuracy where he will be forced to bring it down instead. Knowing where it is likely to be dropped, you can cover that position with Interceptor and/or units capable of taking out the payload of the Drop Pod.

Also, as others have noted, a unit can't assault on the turn it arrives from Deep Strike, even if it's in a Drop Pod (unless he's playing Blood Angels or something, in which case some of them can, though IIRC they have jump packs and I don't think they can arrive on turn one).
Last edited by Bitterman on Aug 05 2014 06:01, edited 1 time in total.

Jemini78
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 28

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#5 » Aug 05 2014 05:46

Drop pod assaults are always difficult to prepare for, but no matter what army, they are not assault vehicles so they can only move out and shoot. This means they do have to plan where it lands so that it can land, open doors and the models inside can move out. They then do get to shoot but will never get to assault anyone. This means you just have to weather the one round of shooting. Then you get to open fire back. The contemptor can be something to worry about, but it is still a dread, so only it's still rather easy to penetrate its armor and blow it up. Fire warriors can penetrate it from the rear, smart missile systems can strip the hull points away pretty easily. The hammer head might suffer, so as mentioned by others protect it somehow. The fire base support cadre would be a good investment against the marine player because the riptide and broadsides would not need to rely on marker-lights to hit those marines, and they get tank hunter as well so they can make short work of the contemptor. Also remember he only needs one pod to drop down first turn, after that, he has to split his pods to those that can drop in first turn to those that come in reserves rounding up. So five pods means only three can come in first turn, the other two drop in later in the game.

User avatar
De'terra
Fio'Vre
Fio'Vre
Posts: 554

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#6 » Aug 05 2014 06:47

Ahh my favorite topic to discuss!

The issues with Drop Pod assaults have been a persist threat for many editions but 7th is giving them an extra edge.
In order to battle this threat, we need to look at it from their perspective.

They have the ability to strike at turn 1 without fear of repercussion even if they go 2th.
They strike where they want and when is predetermined.
After the initial strike, you are crippled and still have a heap of MEQ bodies to deal with and nowhere to go.
With the advent of 7th edition, you are not only boxed in but all the objectives are most likely claimed by the AV12 hull of the drop pod.

A strong equation but they do suffer on a few points!
after the initial strike, their mobility advantage is completely lost.
If you are able to preserve your MEQ hunters, they will lose their staying power faster then you.

If we compare those lists, we are able to influence where and what they strike. If done properly, our advantages will play out better then their strenghts.
How to do this is tricky.

The rules for Drop Pod assault state that if they deviate, they only deviate until they hit a piece of terrain or unit and move as close as possible. We can actually use this to our advantage.
The more general C:TE armies can use bubble wrap methods to protect key units. The drop pod units will favor short ranged weapons that strike hard such as plasma and melta. Depending on army there are 2 special weapons where you might get lucky or it will come from expensive sternguard that wield some combi weapons and ap 3 rounds.
We will be unable to completely avoid getting shot. However, if we can avoid giving away rapid fire shots at key units that might prove to be enough to wither an attack.
The bubble wrap method will also provide a 5+ cover save in order to prevent casualties.
Besides denying extra shots, this will also provide us with some space. After the initial massacre is over, we can increase the already existing gap. If you roll above average for the Thrust move, it is quite possible that they will not be able to fire a single shot in the next phase.
After all, 3 squads of marines are not scary if they can't reach you.

To get more out of your bubble wrapping, leave 4 - 5 inch between each unit. That space is large enough to avoid those rapid fires but small enough that a drop pod wouldn't fit. Be wary of spaces between units since the marines can still move 6' after disembarking.

In order to get even more out of your bubble wrapping, use terrain to fill in the voids between your army. They can only drop in front or behind of the terrain and not in it. so this is a fairly safe zone to create distance. Again, beware of the disembarking move.

Practical example:

X = Kroot
Y = Crisis suit
V = Skyray
T = Terrain

Code: Select all

           X  X  X  X  X
        X                      TTTTTTTTTTTT
        X          Y          TTTTTTTTTTTTTT
         X            Y         TTTTTTTTTTTTTT
            X      Y
           X           VVVVV
              X  X    VVVVV


The marine player can elect to drop directly in front of the kroot but if done right, a rapid fire should not be possible.
The same for the side with the terrain.
If your opponent decides to drop multiple squads so that he can wipe out the Kroot first, take unhindered shots at the Crisis suits and have another squad take out the skyray, then that is fine.

you will lose units, make no mistake. But on average an 1850 list should go with a drop pod or 7.
Taking out of the kroot first is a major loss in firepower for him since they weren't all that awesome to begin with compared to plasma rifle toting crisis suits. He might require an additional squad to take out the Crisis suits but that will also reduces the casualties since he now has one squad less to take out a vital unit.

Combine the above deployment with a table corner. If there is a scatter, on average it will be a 7. If you leave gaps behind you on the table edge, you create a risky drop for him. He might deploy as normal and risk it or lose a full squad.
From the table corner out, use the terrain and bubble wrap method to stretch out a bit and keep your anti-meq units at a good distance from a strike. Doing this, you have prevented him from pushing you in a corner, from losing everything that is ap 3 or less AND now he needs a 2th turn to strike hard but will find himself a short.

The more terrain you use, the easier ofcourse. It is highly dependent of your table setup. If you use some LOS blocking terrain then that is also perfect to avoid getting shot at in the first place. Again, do not forget that they can move 6" to get a better view of your units.

A last method to overcome this is to anticipate these kind of builds in your army. I played a local tournament where I had placed 1ste if I had not failed the 3 pinning checks that come with one of warlord traits.
My opponent was a space wolves player with 7 drop pods and 5 bikes. 3 pods with plasma guns, 3 pods with melta guns and 1 pod with flamers.

I fielded the following:

Farsight
2 Riptides IA, EWO, CDS, TLFB
2x 3 XV8 +2xPR
1x 3 XV8 +2xBC
1x 3 XV8 +2MP
2x Skyray
1x C:TE Commander +2xMP, Iridium
1x 6 Firewarriors.

In my deployment I used the firewarriors, riptides, skyrays and burst cannon suits to make up the outer shell. Everything on the outer ring would have a cover save regardless of any angle he would choose. I deployed in my right table corner with a 6" space from the edge and stretched up to 24" from the right table side. I had an anti-meq unit on each side so that even if he commited to a single side, he would not be able to take out all my plasma rifles.

When the dust settled he killed one skyray, one riptide and the 2 burst cannon suits. After he deployed, I noticed that he had 3 plasma squads near one riptide so I had that one intercept the 4th squad that was on my left side. He killed 7 marines and essentially saved my MP squad that contained my markerlights.

At this point I failed my 3 pinning checks for the MP squad with Commander, Plasma rifle squad and the Riptide. The loss of mobility and markerlights at this point decided the game for me. If I had a single movement phase, I would have deleted 2 squads and put enough space between my most left units and the right side where he had his army. To stall him further, I moved the firewarriors toward him to restrict movement even further.

It was a very tight game at that point and I ended up with 1 objective claimed and 1 contested vs 2 claimed.
If I had the movement, he would not have been able to launch assaults on my plasma rifle suits and lockdown that area of the board.

In the end, deployment wins the game against this kind of army. or take interceptor on everything :D

**Edit: fixed example formatting

User avatar
Bitterman
Shas
Posts: 909

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#7 » Aug 05 2014 09:07

De'terra wrote:In the end, deployment wins the game against this kind of army. or take interceptor on everything :D


tl;dr: this. ;-)

Spread out. Don't let his pods land near what he wants them to land near. Open fire.

User avatar
Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#8 » Jun 13 2015 04:58

I am rewiving this topic for with the release of the new Space Marine codex this month there has been much to talk about, but from all the things there is one that should directly concern us.

Skyhammer Annihilation Force
http://elite40k.blogspot.fr/2015/06/ana ... 000%29&m=1

In the "cover of the night" (if you will :D ) GW has released a special assault formation. Here is the summary of the rules for that formation.
When you finish reading, drink your tee, and after 30 minutes of blank staring at the wall in front of you wondering what the Jolly Roger is this thing, you will notice that this affects armies like Tau (seems like it was build especially against Tau, and static Guard lines). Those who did not, should by now smell the power creep that started around the time new Necron codex came out.

The word Annihilation.... yes thats very on spot. With some luck and precision this can table your average Tau army turn one, before you even get your turn. The sky is not falling, but its definitely coming down with fire and fury ;)
Last edited by Myrdin on Jun 13 2015 09:48, edited 5 times in total.

User avatar
Ro'Kunas
Shas
Posts: 109

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#9 » Jun 13 2015 05:45

Wow. Yeah, this is devastatingly powerful. It effectively negates the restrictions inherent in Deepstriking. Good gracious. This would cause havoc against all manner of factions, but I agree that it hits the Tau especially well. Supportive Fire is the Tau response to Assualt Troops of all types, and when used correctly, it can mitigate the damage that Melee masters can cause against our beloved "Not-in-the-face!" Blue marksmen.

Wait. I was about to write about how destructive the Suppressing Fire rule is to the Tau (Even if you pass a loaded Morale test, you can't Overwatch!) but after some careful scrutiny, I think the Tau have one of the ONLY counters to it.
It states
A unit targeted by a Skyhammer Annihilation Force's Devastator Squad....yadayada... test is failed, the enemy unit...must immediately Go to Ground...test is passed, the enemy unit is unable to fire Overwatch for the rest of the turn.

It specifically states that it only affects the unit that was targeted and fired upon! That means, in any interpretation of the rules, that another Tau unit within 6 inches can still fire Overwatch!
Of course, it doesn't help the fact that with Assault Marines using Jump Packs in Movement AND Assault phases, they will be tearing through our units like a Gorilla through a roll of cheap TP.....
Geez. I'm not gonna tell my Space Marine Friends about this.....
Mystify, mislead, and surprise the enemy
Puretide

Taufink
Shas
Posts: 6

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#10 » Jun 13 2015 07:06

Two options to consider when my opponent is bringing in multiple deep strike/ drop pod units.

1) Put interceptor on everything. Chances are that you can't shoot at his other units which are hiding anyway. A commander with Pec in CSS with Fusion/ Plasma will wreck that contemptor. A buffmander in CSS with double MP will do good too.

2) I have recently experimented with a voidshield generator. For 10 burst cannons you get a medium armor 13 building with 3 armor 12 void shields extending out 12 inches from building. If you position your units correctly, your opponent cannot get inside the bubble. They have to go through bubble before they kill your units. This is also assuming they survive interceptor.

User avatar
Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1012

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#11 » Jun 13 2015 08:09

I don't face drop pods, but sometimes my Space Wolves use them.

The castle is the traditional counter, but there is annother exploitable problem with drop pod heavy lists is that you need to either go all in on the pods or suffer having too weak an alpha strike to do sufficient damage. Once you go all in for drop pods, other than the initial deep strikes, your army is effectively immobile, stuck being on foot.

So, if you have an army in which a number of critical units can survive the initial assault and then quickly reposition (Flat Out moves in skimmers, Jump, Run, Jump from jetpacks) or emerge from reserves away from the initial pod rush (deep strike, outflank) suddenly the bulk of his army is clustered in one part of the board and you have the ability to range over the rest of the board to secure objectives. His later waves of pods will not come in large enough groups to pose a major danger to your forces, and it is likely those pods have cheap objective grabbing units rather than killer units anyway so you can easily deal with them piecemeal.

I haven't seen it tried yet in the context of a full army pulling that tactic, but I have had the occasional podding unit stranded uselessly when their target was simply able to run away. Obviously your army needs to be built for mobility, but Rau might just be capable of this trick, especially if a few sacrificial carnivoire kindreds absorb some initial shots and then make an assault to tie up some attackers.

User avatar
Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#12 » Jun 13 2015 08:15

Jeffar - please take a look at the link I provided. There is a reason I revisited this thread. The newest formation pretty much renders what you wrote outdated.

ALL the drop pods in this formation come at the same time, no need to roll for them, and the controling player nominates the turn they come in. Especially to Tau, Two Units of Assault marines that can charge the moment they come out of the drop pods, with the addition of Hammer of Wrath - pretty much obliterates whatever force you have on the table at that moment. The extra two units of Centurions with graw guns - multi meltas are there just for the kick of it.... oh did I wrote they are Relentless in that turn, and can reroll - AND force you to go to ground OR being unable to fire overwatch ? .... well yeh..

User avatar
Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1012

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#13 » Jun 13 2015 09:02

I don't think it completely invalidates what I said for a couple of reasons.

1) Not all Drop Pod armies will use this formation.

2) A good Kroot bubblewrap will protect a core of skimmers from both the devastators and the initial assault. The Assault Marines do get a great move the first turn, but I'm no sure that they continue to use their packs to move and assault the rest of the game as all the other benefits of the formation seem limited to the turn they arrive. So, depending on the exact way the pods and their cargo came in, they should be able to escape the worst of pocket with a flat our move.

3) What isn't on the table still can't be harmed by this formation. Deep Striking Suits and Vespids, Outflanking Pathfinders and Kroot. They drop in after the hammer has spent the worst of its fury.

User avatar
Das'Kyman
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1161

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#14 » Jun 13 2015 09:16

Two things:

1- Only the Devastators have to have drop pods.
2- The assault squads have to have jump packs.

So you COULD see 4 drop pods, but two of them would have to be carrying only 5 assault marines (still worth it most likely, since they are basically guaranteed to get into combat without suffering any losses to overwatch, thanks to the devastators)

It is also worth noting that none of these units or pods will be Obsec. Which is weird, since GW has been handing out Obsec to space marine units like candy.
Space Marines have always had the superior Deep Strike, now it is just set in stone that there is no competing with them in the Deep Strike game. We have to find a different game until they release our codex.

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 524

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#15 » Jun 13 2015 10:19

As a player that runs drop pod space marines and Tau, i can still second the kroot loops tactic as a viable strategy. Even at a minimum size squad, you are still denying so much area that you can effectively deny melta range on vehicles atleast 80% of the time during deployment. yes the drop pod formation posted gives marines a massive power spike, but it does nothing to improve the units chances of getting within melta range (except in the case of multimeltas on relentless devastators, which is harder to alleviate, but still doable). taking this into account, kroot are still doing their job and pushing back ranged anti-tank, and absorbing assaults, it just so happens that the assault they will be absorbing is coming one turn earlier. use difficult terrain to your advantage, gain that 5+ cover and slow the assaulting marines down, use interceptor to wipe out the devastators, and pretty much the rest of the drop podding army should be sufficiently handled by the counter measures you already have in place.

you would also be well advised to use your commander suit to increase your buffer zone further, especially with the iridium upgrade. such anti-tank weapons like multimeltas and lascannons that target the crisis suits he is joined with will peel shots with drones and he himself should be able to take the heavy shots without being instagibbed. if these weapons arent firing on your important tanks, its a worthwhile trade off, and the unit is more than capable of escaping their alpha strike alive. just be careful not to expose them to an area that could potentially be focused by multiple large groups.

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 755

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#16 » Jun 13 2015 10:24

Myrdin wrote:I am rewiving this topic for with the release of the new Space Marine codex this month there has been much to talk about, but from all the things there is one that should directly concern us.

Skyhammer Annihilation Force
http://elite40k.blogspot.fr/2015/06/ana ... 000%29&m=1

In the "cover of the night" (if you will :D ) GW has released a special assault formation. Here is the summary of the rules for that formation.
When you finish reading, drink your tee, and after 30 minutes of blank staring at the wall in front of you wondering what the Jolly Roger is this thing, you will notice that this affects armies like Tau (seems like it was build especially against Tau, and static Guard lines). Those who did not, should by now smell the power creep that started around the time new Necron codex came out.

The word Annihilation.... yes thats very on spot. With some luck and precision this can table your average Tau army turn one, before you even get your turn. The sky is not falling, but its definitely coming down with fire and fury ;)


That is very nasty indeed. Personally I am not in a panic because my army list happens to already be built around massive kroot blobs and void shield generators. Against a drop pod army I spread right out so that anything coming out of the pods struggles to even be within range of my key units - they can shoot kroot. Losing my huge amount of overwatch from 20 strong kroot squads is pretty annoying but assault marines are vulnerable enough to the overwatch from the units further back.

I think the only weakness I see here is there is no built-in way to reduce scatter on the assault squads so if they try to deep strike in close enough for a reliable charge they seriously risk mishap.

The bonuses to the devastator squads are massive. I actually think that the turn 1 assault is more of a gimmick, these bonuses are what turns this formation into an absolute beast. Any non-fearless army will be wrecked by this. I need to think how it interacts with the void shield rules, if all the shots are diverted onto the shields can the original unit still count as having been targeted for the purpose of this rule?

edit: Someone may have mentioned this already but vehicles are immune to the Suppressing Fusilade rule and Tau vehicles can not only take an overwatch upgrade but usually have drones that share their immunity while having Supporting Fire already. Some of our overwatch cannot be suppressed. For a more mechanised army this brings relentless to the devastators but is otherwise business as usual for drop pod assaults - and all sorts of (semi)relentless nasties have been unleashed on us in allied drop pods so we needed to be thinking of defences against that already.

I will modify my initial reaction a bit, any non-mech non-fearless army will have a lot of trouble with this formation. With our combination of assets I would regard it as just another thing to worry about and just another reason to take EWO whenever possible.

Also we have a warlord trait that allows us to get right back up from going to ground, which happens to be the fixed warlord trait on a model (Aun'Va) that I use already and who is great at mitigating the effect of it by granting re-rolls on morale checks.

User avatar
Tem
Shas
Posts: 173

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#17 » Jun 14 2015 04:40

This formation is pretty horrifying, but it also seems a bit strange. Hasn't GW been systematically removing or altering rules so that it's impossible to charge with a unit arriving from reserves?

One thing that attracted me to the Forgeworld Y'Vahra was the possibility of using the phased plasma-flamer with an EWO. Depending on Drop pod/Deepstrike scatter I could see a couple of intercepting flamer templates which wound MEQs on a 2+ without allowing armour or cover as a good way to blunt the initial strike.

User avatar
boomwolf
Shas'La
Shas'La
Posts: 1752

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#18 » Jun 14 2015 09:15

I hate being the apocalypse-weirdo, but this formation is seriously a "shelf your tau" scenario-especially for enclaves players, unless our own upcoming formations are equally as brutal.

The assaults are not the part that scares me here. they pack a punch, and the "nothing you can do if you didn't spam interceptor like a madman" type of assault is annoying, but bubble-warp is a thing, and on their own, they would have been a fast moving-moderate-hitting unit that only threatens out isolated units to fall to assault, and still simple assault marines to be erased, even from overwatch.

The devs however. where do I start?!
10 in a pod, 4 MM for budget or 4 gravs for maximum firepower, split up to two squads.
The weapon squad erases any unit of choice, suits, tanks, you name it. even riptides if they pack grav. the range and pod-safety means wrapping is irrelevant.
The bolter unit practically auto-pins anything, from kroot, to crisis suits. if it CAN GtG, it will, unless you got a (surviving) ethreal in the mix. forget the fact they might actually kill something, just the pin effect alone is worth the cost. and it even have insane synergism into the assaults.
Then you do it again with the second pod.
All at guaranteed turn 1.


All this before you even count whatever benefits chapter tactics may bestow on them. (ultramarines go tactical doctrine for reroll all 1s to hit and wound probably.

And pray to god he did not pack a second copy of this formation.


This is, beyond any doubt, the most absurdly overpowered set of rules issued by GW. and it invalidates entire factions in any competitive sense. it basically means "if you are not fearless, and cannot spam cheap, valuable transports-you are not even getting to play." and if you are, you are going to take a beating.)



Seriusly, it seems the 7th codex behavior is "lets OP everyone so much, that anything that existed beforehad is simply irrelevant". necron, eldar, admech and codex marines-all are leagues above any previous codex $_$

Return to “Engaging the Alien”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests