Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
Ca'Tau'la
Shas
Posts: 55

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#41 » Jun 20 2015 09:27

Thanks Myrdin, but I was refering to the specific rule about the drop pods in general :D
Nonetheless Thanks for the link, I was talking to a friend yesterday abot this formation and I can give him the link too, so it has benn helpfull too! :)


Thanks too J'Kaara Nan. However a written source is preferable, I can use this point next time I have to deal with the case.
:fear:

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Das'Kyman
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1153

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#42 » Jun 22 2015 09:19

The grav cannon is a 24" salvo weapon, so it really needs to get within 12" to have the insta-killing-a-Riptide-every-turn power. Outside of 12" it will still murder most things though.

If you assume that the marines will receive a 5+ cover save on the turn they arrive, then plasma rifles may not actually be all that helpful on the broadsides. I did some math checking and this is what I came up with.
    Broadside w/ PR <12" - 45 points per dead marine
    Broadside w/ PR >12" - 60 points per dead marine
    Braodside w/ SMS <30" - 46.67 points per dead marine.
The SMS seems like the clear choice since it gives you almost the same hitting power as the PR at more than double the range, allowing you to hit the marines no matter where they land. Of course, if they marines don't have the cover save it is another story:
    Broadside w/ PR <12" - 36 points per dead marine
    Broadside w/ PR >12" - 51.4 points per dead marine
    Braodside w/ SMS <30" - 46.67 points per dead marine.
If they have no cover the PR are looking more attractive since if the marines DO land within 12" three broadsides will kill 6 marines. Of course, against a 10-man squad of devastators this will only kill off the bolters. This just shows that even under ideal circumstances, you need more than just one team of Broadsides to counter a full squad of Devastators.

I do like the idea of the Bastion or a Bunker. Grav weapons are all the rage and it would be hilarious to be impervious to them. However, Kroot bubble wrap really would be mandatory. Otherwise the melta-bomb/powerfist assault squads could easily charge in and wreck it. Then all you'd have is whatever was in the Bastion and hope that your reserves roll well.

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ShasODerpy
Shas'Ui
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Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#43 » Jun 22 2015 12:25

Da Skyman wrote:The grav cannon is a 24" salvo weapon, so it really needs to get within 12" to have the insta-killing-a-Riptide-every-turn power. Outside of 12" it will still murder most things though.

The devastators gain Relentless due to one of the Formations special rules "First the Fire, then the Blade".
This means they count as stationary when firing Salvo weapons.


Do Salvo weapons that have to fire their lowest number even exist now?

-Derp
Shas'O 50mm, the Foresighted
WIP Tau

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nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 628

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#44 » Jun 22 2015 01:57

Da Skyman wrote:If they have no cover the PR are looking more attractive since if the marines DO land within 12" three broadsides will kill 6 marines. Of course, against a 10-man squad of devastators this will only kill off the bolters. This just shows that even under ideal circumstances, you need more than just one team of Broadsides to counter a full squad of Devastators.


Perching a monat Broadside on top of a building is working nicely for me at the moment, I have been working on ideas to model up my next one with plasma rifles for just this reason. The key threat is a melta in range of busting my building and plasma counters that threat strongly.

As I found last week, sometimes you do not have to kill all the marines to get the job done because if you force enough morale tests you might see a key unit break and fall back. In any event if the mere threat of interceptor has prevented the devastators from combat-squadding it has cut down the number of units they can suppress with their annoying formation rule and that is worthwhile anyway.

Da Skyman wrote:I do like the idea of the Bastion or a Bunker. Grav weapons are all the rage and it would be hilarious to be impervious to them. However, Kroot bubble wrap really would be mandatory. Otherwise the melta-bomb/powerfist assault squads could easily charge in and wreck it. Then all you'd have is whatever was in the Bastion and hope that your reserves roll well.


I would add the Void Shield Generator to that list if you are going to consider taking enough kroot bubble-wrap. Hilariously good against grav weapons, so good that you can effectively ignore them as a threat on the turn they drop. Unlike a bastion it happily protects your Riptides and even your kroot.

That means you can focus your interceptor fire onto
a. Weapons that might drop your Void Shields (probably melta in various forms)
b. The imminent assault

If the grav weapons are useless in that first shooting phase you can leave them until your next turn, with any luck your opponent got all aggressive with their drop pods and your kroot can rapid-fire the devastators.

What is not clear - and I would like a FAQ but probably will not get one - is whether the void shield becomes the target of the attack for the purposes of the new suppression rule. The wording of the Void Shield rule where it says "...further hits strike the original target instead." imply that the void shield does become the target until it drops but I am sure I might meet players who think otherwise.

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Das'Kyman
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Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#45 » Jun 22 2015 02:57

Yes, they are relentless, so they can fire the weapon to full effect, even on the move. But they really do need the 5 shots instead of the 3 if they are going to be killing Riptides, hence the need to be within 12".
However, 3 shots each should be more than enough for most stuff, especially with the chapter tactics shenanigans.

The VSG is another thing I hadn't considered. It would be the perfect companion for the null deploy method. The only downside is that you cannot put a comms relay on it, but that is not a huge deal imho.
It really does necessitate Kroot bubble wrap though, to make sure the marines stay outside the VSG bubble.

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nic
Kroot'La
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Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#46 » Jun 22 2015 03:14

Da Skyman wrote:Yes, they are relentless, so they can fire the weapon to full effect, even on the move. But they really do need the 5 shots instead of the 3 if they are going to be killing Riptides, hence the need to be within 12".
However, 3 shots each should be more than enough for most stuff, especially with the chapter tactics shenanigans.

The VSG is another thing I hadn't considered. It would be the perfect companion for the null deploy method. The only downside is that you cannot put a comms relay on it, but that is not a huge deal imho.
It really does necessitate Kroot bubble wrap though, to make sure the marines stay outside the VSG bubble.


You *could* bubble-wrap with Fire Warriors but it would cost more points and would limit where you put the VSG because they cannot infiltrate beyond your deployment zone. Kroot work better in my opinion not only because they are cheaper but also because a lot of armies will resort to assault to deal with the Void Shield protected army and kroot are better (and less expensive) speed bumps vs assault.

If you put the VSG right in a corner to limit the total area protected you might be able to fill that 12" adequately with a mixture of battlesuits and drones. I have not tried it but it should be feasible, especially if you add in some Skyrays (or similar) which have a pretty large footprint.

Personal experience is that with a VSG you need both bubble-wrap and an adequate amount of Interceptor fire if you want to withstand a decent drop-pod alpha strike. I am still experimenting to try to find the perfect balance.

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ShasODerpy
Shas'Ui
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Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#47 » Jun 22 2015 05:32

Da Skyman wrote:Yes, they are relentless, so they can fire the weapon to full effect, even on the move. But they really do need the 5 shots instead of the 3 if they are going to be killing Riptides, hence the need to be within 12".
However, 3 shots each should be more than enough for most stuff, especially with the chapter tactics shenanigans.

I'm not sure I understand the train of thought here... (do tell me if i'm being a complete idiot :P )

Salvo weapons (more specifically Grav Cannons) allow you to:
Move, and fire 3 shots at half range ('12)
Or,
Whilst statioinary, fire 5 shots at full range ('24)

Combined with Relentless, you always count as stationary, and will therefore always fire 5 shots at full range


-Derp
Shas'O 50mm, the Foresighted
WIP Tau

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Das'Kyman
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Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#48 » Jun 23 2015 07:43

You are not. I am the one who is a complete idiot. And I even read the rules for Salvo weapons before posting that! My apologies. I feel rather sheepish.
Yes, the grav cannons have a 24" range at full fire. For some reason in my mind Salvo weapons worked like a Rapid Fire weapons of old (stand still fire once at full range or twice at half range. move and fire once at half range). So there is no escaping grav death. I have little experience with the grav-centurions. When I did play them they landed within 12" so I never knew the difference!

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Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#49 » Jun 24 2015 05:18

Hi ATT,

I've followed this thread with some interest & it occured to me that although you may not find it useful in all games, against this formation specificaly, would a Seismic Fibrillator be a valid counter?

A 36" bubble of dificult terrain on a 2+ & since you attempt to activate it at the start of any turn, you almost guarantee it will work.

This will force them to land out of Grav & charge range & slow their approach, buying you time & turns?

I must admit I am not completly up on the Drop Pod rules, so please feel free to shoot me down!

Cheers

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Kindrin
Shas'Saal
Posts: 179

Re: Space Marine Drop Pod Assault

Post#50 » Jun 24 2015 05:44

I looked at that too but the drop pods are allowed to deep strike into difficult terrain. The only drawback for them is the 1-in-6 chance of suffering damage. If it was a 1-in-6 of being destroyed I'd consider it but it is not.

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