Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

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SpaceCowboy
Shas
Posts: 14

Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#1 » Aug 25 2014 10:35

So,

I've been playing a number of 1000pts games against a Necron friend to get back acquinted with 40k after a few years out of the game.

Whilst I can outmanoeuvre and outfire most of his units these Canoptek Wraiths buggers keep shredding me to bits. My firepower cant whittle a 5-model unit down anywhere fast enough and attemps at assault (poor poor Kroot) resulted in an overwhelming NOPE.

I run a Fire Warrior heavy cadre with broadsides and crisis suits.

Any advice most welkom, the mandatory bowing and grovelling will be yours!

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Hodgeypodge
Shas
Posts: 30

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#2 » Aug 25 2014 11:47

It's fairly hard for anyone to give helpful advice without knowing your list (and play-style). What I find when I am stuck on a particular unit is that I play around with my list and prepare to lose the next few games until I figure out how to take them out. I know it can be frustrating and it sometimes seems like there is no way of taking this unit out before it destroys you - I have had similar qualms about bl**dy necron doomsythes which can take out my 3 tanks in 1 turn!!! -

Don't worry much though. - The Necron Codex should be coming out very soon anyway so... We all hope they have done a serious balancing act!

Also, as I think you have found out, assaulting with kroot ... is ... extremely situational at best. Rapid firing means the enemy can't hurt you on your turn!!

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tekkblade
Shas
Posts: 79

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#3 » Aug 25 2014 12:08

You've got pretty much two options. First is Plasma rifles on Crisis Suits, a team of 3 suits with two PR each is either 6 or 12 shots depending on range that don't allow armor save. Without marker light support you should get 3 or 6 hits which will translate to 2.5 or 5 wounds. Even with the wraith's speed you should be able to get two or three turns of shooting before they catch this team. Your other option is the same team but with Fusion blasters, S8 vs T4, you ignore armor saves and instant death them on wounds. 6 shots, 3 hits, 2.5 wounds, but you don't have the range so you'll get one or two turns of shooting before getting caught. Since you said you are close to killing the unit but just can't seem to do it with your current list, either of these options should be able to do the heavy lifting and let your firewarriors do any clean-up.

Gunko
Shas
Posts: 45

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#4 » Aug 25 2014 12:29

Wraiths have a 3++ invuln save
I'd suggest going with the 2nd option of fusion or other Str 8+ so if it wounds it insta kills. My experience is shooting what I can into them to take out a couple then throw a riptide to either tie them up or slowly kill them.
Even having Shadowsun or warlord trait of 3D6 jetpack move it hard to kite or outrun wraiths.

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tekkblade
Shas
Posts: 79

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#5 » Aug 25 2014 01:25

Gunko, you are correct about the 3+ invuln. I wasn't aware of that initially. Since they have a 3+/3++ I'd recommend volume fire; just drown the unit in more saves then it can make. Crisis team with two missile pods per model. 12 shots at 36" that wound on 2+. This allow you the most turns of firing possible.

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Tem
Shas
Posts: 173

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#6 » Aug 25 2014 05:50

Wraiths are a real pain, because like Thunderwolves (which I've played against far too often) they have a 3++, good speed and the melee ability to deal with any of our units. The best counter I've come up with is 2 full Fire Warrior teams buffed by to BS5 at short range, under Storm of Fire. On average you get 72 shots, 60 hits, 30 wounds (and hopefully) 10 wounds.

SpaceCowboy
Shas
Posts: 14

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#7 » Aug 26 2014 03:07

As I'm still defining my style and list I figured it made less sense to post it in full.

Good call on the instant death rule, we seemed to have skipped over that one.

I tried the smorgasbord of missile pods but they lacked strength to get the job done.

Next attempt will be maxed out fusion blasters surrounded by a boatload of pulse rounds. I'm planning on 3 suits with TL Fusion Blasters, 4 units of 8 fire warriors and some broadsides.

Thanks for the advice!

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1017

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#8 » Aug 26 2014 04:12

I've been waiting the opportunity to drop one of our St 8 large blasts on a unit of Wraiths for a while now. I expect some fun results as I was able to remove two Wraiths with a single Hammerhead submunition on multiple occasions in the past.

One of my opponents likes to start the game with two units of wraiths on the board and a destroyer lord in one or both units. The rest of his army is Immortals in Night Scythes and of course Doom Scythes.I think the Riptide's big blast might just win me a first blood and/or slay the warlord on turn 1.

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Myrdin
Shas
Posts: 403

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#9 » Aug 26 2014 05:20

Hodgeypodge wrote:It's fairly hard for anyone to give helpful advice without knowing your list (and play-style).

..... No.... its not, not really...

My most consistent opponent is a Necron player, and though he does not bring the 3x6 + tons of flyers Necron cheese list, he always includes at least 1x3 or 2x3 of them to force me to spread my fire. Another friend tends to bring one unit of 6 with charriots so i can say, that the Wraiths are something i can always expect to see.

there is only one answer to Wraith squads that can bypass that invul save and thats TONS of dakka. Just treat them as you would any Terminator styled units. They roll a 3+ invul, so you just have to force as many wounds as possible to make him roll those 1 and 2. Mass Fire Warrior fire and/or focused attention from HYMP Broadsides / Missile C. suits, tends to rip them rather nicely.

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tekkblade
Shas
Posts: 79

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#10 » Aug 26 2014 07:14

SpaceCowboy wrote:I tried the smorgasbord of missile pods but they lacked strength to get the job done.


The strength of the missile pods should be wounding on 2+ whether from crisis suits or broadsides. The smart missile system is lower strength so they wound on a higher roll but still vary favorable. Nothing like putting 24 TL shots into a unit from a full unit of Missilesides.

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Glassjaw
Shas
Posts: 106

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#11 » Aug 26 2014 08:59

If in doubt, mass pulse fire. We can bring a lot of S5 firepower at a base cost and it's a cheap way to drown a good 3++ in dice. You could use gun drones to kite around his wraiths, using their thrust moves to play a game of keep away continuously whittling them down, or crisis suits with dual burst cannons, or long range Firewarriors to just hammer them at range.

I also agree with the above statements, missile pods. Again we can field these in large numbers quite easily, and the only way to beat a 3++ is to just force them to roll on it a lot.

Another option is to try an tarpit them, or present him with a lure and keep them distracted while you take on the rest of his army.
dakka dakka dakka

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DrMedicine
Shas
Posts: 32

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#12 » Aug 26 2014 10:36

If massive amounts of firepower does not bring them down and your firewarriors are in trouble of being assaulted, you can always try a Iridium suit, Onager Gauntlet and Failsafe detonator suicide squad of crisis suits or put all that on a commander. Well maybe except the Onager gauntlet, you should probably put that on a shas'vre so your commander gets all his attacks. Or have your riptide charge in with his Hammer of wrath and make sure it has FnP so it can survive a little bit.

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tekkblade
Shas
Posts: 79

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#13 » Aug 26 2014 11:06

Spacecowboy, let us know how things go. A friend plays necrons and he has wraiths, but only three models and we've only played 1500+ point games so I've had plenty of firepower to bring to bear. I know I'd like to find out what works well in a smaller point game.

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#14 » Aug 26 2014 03:35

My advice is similar to what others here have offered, but from two directions: first, lots of S8. It instant-kills them, so spam as much as you can. Helios Crisis teams are a good start, but don't forget about a Riptide with ion accelerator (and fusion, for good measure), Hammerhead with ion cannon, cyclic ion blaster, Razorshark with ion turret and Pathfinders with ion rifles. Combine that with pulse/burst cannon spam, augmented by a Cadre Fireblade, Ethereal or both. Basically, force as many saves as you can, and of those, try to make as many as possible cause instant death to maximize the effect of any that do fail.

AP doesn't matter, so just focus on as much volume of fire as you can muster, and make as much as possible S8 or greater. Boost it with markerlights, don't bother stripping cover unless it's 2+.

Remember that he can only assault one unit per turn, and Wraiths have stinky Initiative. Vectored retro-thrusters can give your Crisis or Stealth suits a fighting chance of escaping. Bring drones so you're testing to escape on I4, and gun drones also provide that all-important dakka. (And pinning, in case it ever matters.) You can blind them with photon grenades; I haven't tried this but it could soften the blow a little if they do get into assault.

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jade_angel
Shas
Posts: 185

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#15 » Aug 26 2014 04:54

Just did a bit of mathhammer on this, and a squad of Crisis suits with dual fusion blasters (I said Helios in the post above; I meant Sunforge. Oops!) plus Shadowsun with Command-Link Drone and two marker hits should, on average, drop two Wraiths per turn. Combined with a squad of Fire Warriors in double-tap range with a Cadre Fireblade, you can probably polish off the entire squad. Probably.

If you have S8 blasts, fire them first to maximize the probability of multiple hits, then use fusion blasters to finish off the survivors.

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TheCoolShark900
Shas
Posts: 18

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#16 » Aug 27 2014 04:26

My own advice from experience against three Wraiths is to give them two Ion rifle pie plates and 2 Seeker Missiles (I used a Skyray) or a Burst Cannon and 2 Seekers, It may of been down to my luckiest dice rolling ever but the Burst Cannon took out a Wraith and the Seeker Missiles Instant Killed the other two. My other game (Same Guy) was the same but the Ion Rifles took out two Wraiths and the Seekers 1 Wraith

Hope this helps :P
Big Guns Never Tire???
"Longstrike, wake up"

SpaceCowboy
Shas
Posts: 14

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#17 » Aug 27 2014 05:12

Alright thanks guys!

Next match is tomorrow Thursday, I'll let you know how it goes.

Due to model constraints I'm going with Missile Pods, Fusion Blasters and a whole lot of pulse rifles :fear:

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tekkblade
Shas
Posts: 79

Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#18 » Aug 27 2014 06:41

Sounds like a solid plan. Good Luck

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