Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Glassjaw
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#11 » Aug 26 2014 08:59

If in doubt, mass pulse fire. We can bring a lot of S5 firepower at a base cost and it's a cheap way to drown a good 3++ in dice. You could use gun drones to kite around his wraiths, using their thrust moves to play a game of keep away continuously whittling them down, or crisis suits with dual burst cannons, or long range Firewarriors to just hammer them at range.

I also agree with the above statements, missile pods. Again we can field these in large numbers quite easily, and the only way to beat a 3++ is to just force them to roll on it a lot.

Another option is to try an tarpit them, or present him with a lure and keep them distracted while you take on the rest of his army.
dakka dakka dakka

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DrMedicine
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#12 » Aug 26 2014 10:36

If massive amounts of firepower does not bring them down and your firewarriors are in trouble of being assaulted, you can always try a Iridium suit, Onager Gauntlet and Failsafe detonator suicide squad of crisis suits or put all that on a commander. Well maybe except the Onager gauntlet, you should probably put that on a shas'vre so your commander gets all his attacks. Or have your riptide charge in with his Hammer of wrath and make sure it has FnP so it can survive a little bit.

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tekkblade
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#13 » Aug 26 2014 11:06

Spacecowboy, let us know how things go. A friend plays necrons and he has wraiths, but only three models and we've only played 1500+ point games so I've had plenty of firepower to bring to bear. I know I'd like to find out what works well in a smaller point game.

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jade_angel
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#14 » Aug 26 2014 03:35

My advice is similar to what others here have offered, but from two directions: first, lots of S8. It instant-kills them, so spam as much as you can. Helios Crisis teams are a good start, but don't forget about a Riptide with ion accelerator (and fusion, for good measure), Hammerhead with ion cannon, cyclic ion blaster, Razorshark with ion turret and Pathfinders with ion rifles. Combine that with pulse/burst cannon spam, augmented by a Cadre Fireblade, Ethereal or both. Basically, force as many saves as you can, and of those, try to make as many as possible cause instant death to maximize the effect of any that do fail.

AP doesn't matter, so just focus on as much volume of fire as you can muster, and make as much as possible S8 or greater. Boost it with markerlights, don't bother stripping cover unless it's 2+.

Remember that he can only assault one unit per turn, and Wraiths have stinky Initiative. Vectored retro-thrusters can give your Crisis or Stealth suits a fighting chance of escaping. Bring drones so you're testing to escape on I4, and gun drones also provide that all-important dakka. (And pinning, in case it ever matters.) You can blind them with photon grenades; I haven't tried this but it could soften the blow a little if they do get into assault.

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jade_angel
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#15 » Aug 26 2014 04:54

Just did a bit of mathhammer on this, and a squad of Crisis suits with dual fusion blasters (I said Helios in the post above; I meant Sunforge. Oops!) plus Shadowsun with Command-Link Drone and two marker hits should, on average, drop two Wraiths per turn. Combined with a squad of Fire Warriors in double-tap range with a Cadre Fireblade, you can probably polish off the entire squad. Probably.

If you have S8 blasts, fire them first to maximize the probability of multiple hits, then use fusion blasters to finish off the survivors.

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TheCoolShark900
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#16 » Aug 27 2014 04:26

My own advice from experience against three Wraiths is to give them two Ion rifle pie plates and 2 Seeker Missiles (I used a Skyray) or a Burst Cannon and 2 Seekers, It may of been down to my luckiest dice rolling ever but the Burst Cannon took out a Wraith and the Seeker Missiles Instant Killed the other two. My other game (Same Guy) was the same but the Ion Rifles took out two Wraiths and the Seekers 1 Wraith

Hope this helps :P
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SpaceCowboy
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#17 » Aug 27 2014 05:12

Alright thanks guys!

Next match is tomorrow Thursday, I'll let you know how it goes.

Due to model constraints I'm going with Missile Pods, Fusion Blasters and a whole lot of pulse rifles :fear:

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tekkblade
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#18 » Aug 27 2014 06:41

Sounds like a solid plan. Good Luck

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Myrdin
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#19 » Aug 28 2014 06:02

Just thought of something, maybe it´ll work.

Wraiths are T4, soo it requires at least S8 to instagib them. Interesting (although expensive) option might be to take Darkstrider, to enhance the effectivnes of yoru troops. Either in a full unit of Pathfinders with max. amount of special weapons (Thus the Rail Rifles and Ion rifles from the pathfinders would cause instant death due to reducing Wraiths T, with Darkstrider.)
Or
Plop him and a Cadre Fireblade in one full man squad of Fire warriors. Though not instant killing it would quite interesting to see the reult.
Then again, its expensive since he costs something around 100 or 110 points just by himself. Might be fun to try in a larger game though.

SpaceCowboy
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#20 » Aug 29 2014 01:57

Well that went less than swimmingly!

I let loose on 6 Canoptek Wraiths with 3 broadsides, 1 commander & 2 bodygaurds with TL missile pods and fusion blasters and 24 fire warriors. All supported by markerlights from a pathfinder unit. Even got 2 rounds of overwatch in by sacrificing unit of fire warriors. In 3 turns I managed to kill 4 of them. 3+ invulnerable save is such a *$/=M%@. (if I missed a rule that bypasses these, please do tell!) At this point they managed to get in melee.

The first lesson for me was that against crisis suits these guys arent that formidable in melee. 2 crisis bodygaurds managed to fight 2 wraiths to a draw. Second lesson was that pouring all that firepower into the wraiths allowed the rest of his army to advance unharmed. My mate also had a Nightscythe with a deathray which, due to my underestimation, managed to knock off my commander.

So next time I'll be paying these guys a little less attention. Maybe round up Farsight and unleash Tau Melee!
Also, I need to buy less food and stuff and buy more Riptide. Priorities.

Thanks for the input guys!

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Bitterman
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#21 » Aug 29 2014 02:32

3++ is the worst thing in 40K. (Available to a standard unit, anyway. The 2++/rerollable thing that Screamerstars had going on for a while there was even worse, though happily I never had to play against it myself). Combine it to a unit that's tough, fast, deadly, and ignores terrain, and it's just dirty.

Played a 40K tournament at Warhammer World a couple of years back, my Marines against Necrons. Six Wraiths killed, in turn: 5 Terminators, 5 Tactical Marines, 5 Devastators, 4 Tactical Marines (the other one was already dead, one of the few models that needed to be killed by the rest of his army) and my Captain.

I killed two Wraiths.

Nothing should be that good.

In general, anything strong enough to seriously hurt Wraiths (ie. S8, for insta-kill) probably doesn't fire enough shots to get past the 3++. Anything that fires enough shots to overwhelm the 3++, probably isn't strong enough to get past their toughness and wounds. The latter option - volume of fire - probably remains the better option, and if you build a list for the purpose I'm sure it's fairly straightforward; but in a TAC list where you don't know you're playing Wraiths beforehand, and especially if your opponent sensibly uses terrain to shield them from the worst of the fire, there's a good chance you're just out of luck.

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Morollan
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#22 » Aug 29 2014 03:04

Rate of Fire is definitely the way to go with Wraiths. I usually play Dark Eldar and I have rarely seen Wraiths make it into combat. A storm of splinter fire takes down the Wraiths and once they are dead, darklight weapons take out the Destroyer Lord.

A Tau army should be able to achieve similar, if not better, rates of fire, with the added bonus that most of the Tau weaponry will be wounding more frequently than my poison fire.

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Myrdin
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#23 » Aug 29 2014 03:42

Well..... the other thing is just tell your friend to cool down a bit - no i mean it, since i believe you said he plays this list at a 1000 points game ?
In such a small format as far as I am concerned that is not a friendly list (taking account the flier as well) and though this game is competitive whats the point of playing repeatedly against that person when he pummels you every single time, not even caring.

The thing and main problem of our army is - we have zero melee that is actually worth a hing.
Ive seen a brood of hormogants with poison tear Wraiths to shred while making them stuck in prolonged combat. Similar with ork boys squads.
Anything that has numbers and good volume of attacks, no matter the S or AP.
We aint got that .....because hey ! Lets nerf the Kroot ! Lets take away the extra attack, by giving them a two handed weapon, which is one of the most useless, stupid rules in this whole game (it does literally NOTHING to benefit the user.... sigh.... good old Fantasy, was this the case you would get +2 to S at least).

Id suggest to tell your friend to not be a hygenic cleanser and limit the wraiths to a unit of 3, considering its just a 1K game like that.
The other thing you might consider is, keep a blob of 20+10 Kroot + hounds around.
They are fairly cheap, can shoot a little but as far as a sacrificial unit goes just toss em in as meat shield and tar pit the hell out of the Wraiths - But you will need Ethereal for this to grant them Stubborn through his invocation. The wraith have high S but very few attacks. Just use the Kroot as meat shield and shoot everything else in his army to cinders.

OR.... there is also the option to run Farsight Allies commander with fusion blades. (But you will still need the Stubborn from Ethereal as your guys WILL drop like flies) Put him in the Kroot blob, and let him pile in (don't let him go in the first wave though, he must not be in base contact, but has to stay within 3" in order to attack). This would add killines (S8 attacks that Blind - and Wraiths are just I2 so that should be rather nasty).

SpaceCowboy
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#24 » Aug 29 2014 04:28

Myridin,

good point on the Kroot meatshield. Thing is the whipcoils reduce my I to 1 so he usually culls quite a bit in the first round. I do have about 50 Kroot so I'll give it a go.

I do feel my mate has the right to go all out in his list. I quite enjoy the challenge. The 3+ invulnerable save is just so impervious to tactics or strategem, just one big dose of NOPE. Curious to see how these will fare in their next codex!

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Myrdin
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#25 » Aug 29 2014 06:26

Good luck ;)

Just don't forget 3 things:
*GET the Ethereal for the Stubborn, or he WILL break you in that first round and run them down (unless lot of luck and wiffed rolls are involved)
**The Whip Coils affect only models in Base To Base (i really do think this, but i might be wrong and it just affects enemy unit, no matter the models in BTB contact), so unless all of them have it (which i don't see often when facing wraiths, its usually just one guy with the coils) you should be fine.
***Just make sure you position the kroot in front, and Hounds behind. They got 2A each (unlike Kroot) so you want them to stick around longer.

Hope it all goes well and you get your well deserved victory !

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Mauler
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#26 » Sep 03 2014 11:59

SpaceCowboy wrote:n 3 turns I managed to kill 4 of them. 3+ invulnerable save is such a *$/=M%@. (if I missed a rule that bypasses these, please do tell!)



Unfortunately you didn't miss anything and the 3++ is a MATT WARD SPECIAL. He's departed GW this year so the next codex should ease up on that lunacy a lil' bit.

3++ on every S6 jump model in the unit for less than 40pts each, jeez.

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Ell'ran
Shas'Vre
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#27 » Sep 03 2014 03:50

I played a 500 point game vs Necrons with my Tau once and brought a weird list. His list was something like 2 Wraiths, the AV 13 transport thingy, a lord and 2 units of warriors.

I brought 2 units of Fire Warriors, a squad of shield drones, and a commander with more shield drones and:
2x Fusion, Vectored Retro Thrusters, Shield Generator, Iridium, Onager, and probably something else, I don't quite remember.

The Commander deepstruck and blew up the transport turn 2, got charged by wraiths and killed one on overwatch and punched the other one with the Onager. Then he proceeded to charge a Warrior squad, swept them, then him and his merry unit of shield drones went and continued to punch the rest of the army to death. I think i lost maybe 2 or 3 shield drones all game.

I don't know if that setup will work for you, or if I just got lucky, but having the 4+ invul on the drones does come in quite handy, especially when you have a whole unit of them. And the Commander's ability to Hit and Run is not to be underestimated either.

Edit- If you don't want the Shield Generator on the Shas'o, the Stimulant Injector is a good alternative.

SpaceCowboy
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#28 » Sep 04 2014 02:53

Myrdin wrote:Good luck ;)
**The Whip Coils affect only models in Base To Base (i really do think this, but i might be wrong and it just affects enemy unit, no matter the models in BTB contact), so unless all of them have it (which i don't see often when facing wraiths, its usually just one guy with the coils) you should be fine.
Hope it all goes well and you get your well deserved victory !


Yeah, so he does bring whip coils on all of the wraiths :dead:

We went at it again yesterday. He had 6 wraiths and a Scarab Walker (me thinks its called) and some infantry. I had a commander, 2 bodygaurds and 6 shield drones, 3 broadsides, hammerhead and fire warriors. I laid into the wraiths for 2 turns with everything, earning 1 grand kill. He charged a unit of fire warriors who broke on a roll of 11. Next turn he just managed to charge my commander and bodyguards. I killed one wraith with the Onager Gauntlet but lost the combat. My suits then broke on a roll of 12 and got swept.

I tend to position my overwatching units quite well but it's become hilariously pointless. Never once managed to score a wound with something like 30 fire warriors and 3 suits.

The Kroot meatshield is up next Thurday.

One day, one day!

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