Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Bitterman
Shas
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#21 » Aug 29 2014 02:32

3++ is the worst thing in 40K. (Available to a standard unit, anyway. The 2++/rerollable thing that Screamerstars had going on for a while there was even worse, though happily I never had to play against it myself). Combine it to a unit that's tough, fast, deadly, and ignores terrain, and it's just dirty.

Played a 40K tournament at Warhammer World a couple of years back, my Marines against Necrons. Six Wraiths killed, in turn: 5 Terminators, 5 Tactical Marines, 5 Devastators, 4 Tactical Marines (the other one was already dead, one of the few models that needed to be killed by the rest of his army) and my Captain.

I killed two Wraiths.

Nothing should be that good.

In general, anything strong enough to seriously hurt Wraiths (ie. S8, for insta-kill) probably doesn't fire enough shots to get past the 3++. Anything that fires enough shots to overwhelm the 3++, probably isn't strong enough to get past their toughness and wounds. The latter option - volume of fire - probably remains the better option, and if you build a list for the purpose I'm sure it's fairly straightforward; but in a TAC list where you don't know you're playing Wraiths beforehand, and especially if your opponent sensibly uses terrain to shield them from the worst of the fire, there's a good chance you're just out of luck.

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Morollan
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#22 » Aug 29 2014 03:04

Rate of Fire is definitely the way to go with Wraiths. I usually play Dark Eldar and I have rarely seen Wraiths make it into combat. A storm of splinter fire takes down the Wraiths and once they are dead, darklight weapons take out the Destroyer Lord.

A Tau army should be able to achieve similar, if not better, rates of fire, with the added bonus that most of the Tau weaponry will be wounding more frequently than my poison fire.

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Myrdin
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#23 » Aug 29 2014 03:42

Well..... the other thing is just tell your friend to cool down a bit - no i mean it, since i believe you said he plays this list at a 1000 points game ?
In such a small format as far as I am concerned that is not a friendly list (taking account the flier as well) and though this game is competitive whats the point of playing repeatedly against that person when he pummels you every single time, not even caring.

The thing and main problem of our army is - we have zero melee that is actually worth a hing.
Ive seen a brood of hormogants with poison tear Wraiths to shred while making them stuck in prolonged combat. Similar with ork boys squads.
Anything that has numbers and good volume of attacks, no matter the S or AP.
We aint got that .....because hey ! Lets nerf the Kroot ! Lets take away the extra attack, by giving them a two handed weapon, which is one of the most useless, stupid rules in this whole game (it does literally NOTHING to benefit the user.... sigh.... good old Fantasy, was this the case you would get +2 to S at least).

Id suggest to tell your friend to not be a hygenic cleanser and limit the wraiths to a unit of 3, considering its just a 1K game like that.
The other thing you might consider is, keep a blob of 20+10 Kroot + hounds around.
They are fairly cheap, can shoot a little but as far as a sacrificial unit goes just toss em in as meat shield and tar pit the hell out of the Wraiths - But you will need Ethereal for this to grant them Stubborn through his invocation. The wraith have high S but very few attacks. Just use the Kroot as meat shield and shoot everything else in his army to cinders.

OR.... there is also the option to run Farsight Allies commander with fusion blades. (But you will still need the Stubborn from Ethereal as your guys WILL drop like flies) Put him in the Kroot blob, and let him pile in (don't let him go in the first wave though, he must not be in base contact, but has to stay within 3" in order to attack). This would add killines (S8 attacks that Blind - and Wraiths are just I2 so that should be rather nasty).

SpaceCowboy
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#24 » Aug 29 2014 04:28

Myridin,

good point on the Kroot meatshield. Thing is the whipcoils reduce my I to 1 so he usually culls quite a bit in the first round. I do have about 50 Kroot so I'll give it a go.

I do feel my mate has the right to go all out in his list. I quite enjoy the challenge. The 3+ invulnerable save is just so impervious to tactics or strategem, just one big dose of NOPE. Curious to see how these will fare in their next codex!

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Myrdin
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#25 » Aug 29 2014 06:26

Good luck ;)

Just don't forget 3 things:
*GET the Ethereal for the Stubborn, or he WILL break you in that first round and run them down (unless lot of luck and wiffed rolls are involved)
**The Whip Coils affect only models in Base To Base (i really do think this, but i might be wrong and it just affects enemy unit, no matter the models in BTB contact), so unless all of them have it (which i don't see often when facing wraiths, its usually just one guy with the coils) you should be fine.
***Just make sure you position the kroot in front, and Hounds behind. They got 2A each (unlike Kroot) so you want them to stick around longer.

Hope it all goes well and you get your well deserved victory !

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Mauler
Shas
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#26 » Sep 03 2014 11:59

SpaceCowboy wrote:n 3 turns I managed to kill 4 of them. 3+ invulnerable save is such a *$/=M%@. (if I missed a rule that bypasses these, please do tell!)



Unfortunately you didn't miss anything and the 3++ is a MATT WARD SPECIAL. He's departed GW this year so the next codex should ease up on that lunacy a lil' bit.

3++ on every S6 jump model in the unit for less than 40pts each, jeez.

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Ell'ran
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#27 » Sep 03 2014 03:50

I played a 500 point game vs Necrons with my Tau once and brought a weird list. His list was something like 2 Wraiths, the AV 13 transport thingy, a lord and 2 units of warriors.

I brought 2 units of Fire Warriors, a squad of shield drones, and a commander with more shield drones and:
2x Fusion, Vectored Retro Thrusters, Shield Generator, Iridium, Onager, and probably something else, I don't quite remember.

The Commander deepstruck and blew up the transport turn 2, got charged by wraiths and killed one on overwatch and punched the other one with the Onager. Then he proceeded to charge a Warrior squad, swept them, then him and his merry unit of shield drones went and continued to punch the rest of the army to death. I think i lost maybe 2 or 3 shield drones all game.

I don't know if that setup will work for you, or if I just got lucky, but having the 4+ invul on the drones does come in quite handy, especially when you have a whole unit of them. And the Commander's ability to Hit and Run is not to be underestimated either.

Edit- If you don't want the Shield Generator on the Shas'o, the Stimulant Injector is a good alternative.

SpaceCowboy
Shas
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#28 » Sep 04 2014 02:53

Myrdin wrote:Good luck ;)
**The Whip Coils affect only models in Base To Base (i really do think this, but i might be wrong and it just affects enemy unit, no matter the models in BTB contact), so unless all of them have it (which i don't see often when facing wraiths, its usually just one guy with the coils) you should be fine.
Hope it all goes well and you get your well deserved victory !


Yeah, so he does bring whip coils on all of the wraiths :dead:

We went at it again yesterday. He had 6 wraiths and a Scarab Walker (me thinks its called) and some infantry. I had a commander, 2 bodygaurds and 6 shield drones, 3 broadsides, hammerhead and fire warriors. I laid into the wraiths for 2 turns with everything, earning 1 grand kill. He charged a unit of fire warriors who broke on a roll of 11. Next turn he just managed to charge my commander and bodyguards. I killed one wraith with the Onager Gauntlet but lost the combat. My suits then broke on a roll of 12 and got swept.

I tend to position my overwatching units quite well but it's become hilariously pointless. Never once managed to score a wound with something like 30 fire warriors and 3 suits.

The Kroot meatshield is up next Thurday.

One day, one day!

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Morollan
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#29 » Sep 04 2014 04:20

SpaceCowboy wrote:I tend to position my overwatching units quite well but it's become hilariously pointless. Never once managed to score a wound with something like 30 fire warriors and 3 suits.


That's just bad luck, pure and simple. Not much anyone can do about that other than hope the dice are kinder in future.

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Mauler
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Re: Necron Canoptek Wraiths, oh heavens

Post#30 » Sep 04 2014 04:44

SpaceCowboy wrote:We went at it again yesterday. He had 6 wraiths and a Scarab Walker (me thinks its called) and some infantry.


The walker is most likely a Triarch Stalker - fairly substantial ground-based spider-lookin' thing? The only other thing that comes close is a Tomb/Canoptek Spyder which is smaller, doesn't touch the ground and can produce scarab swarms.


Good luck, keep the reports a-comin' :D

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