Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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boomwolf
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#11 » Oct 01 2014 10:49

On other notes, invisibility does not apply very effectively on things that aim like orks to begin with.

So your drones are hardly effected, and tetras has decent chances to still acquire marks. anything that is twin-linked also can still get SOME hits done. (or anything that just shoots a hell lot.)

Allied doom scythe i also the instant death (quite literally) of the invis centstar. kharn also cares very little, as he hits on a fixed value rather than by WS, and his attacks are brutal enough to erase the squad.

por'el vior'la Kais

Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#12 » Oct 02 2014 12:28

guys come on, we play tau here. you can't just throw in some random unit from another codex just because it is OP.
am I the only one with pride here? besides, I don't see why having two dedicated markerlight squads won't solve the problem...
since when does invisibility make you snapfire anyway? I thought it would give stealth and shrouded which is fixed by throwing in two marker lights.
but besides that, I would say that if you want to find a solution, find a tau one. I mean if you don't you might as well bring all the OP things from every army,
meaning that the only tau that would be left will probably be a couple of riptides, which are what seems to be the mainstay of the lists here anyway.
cheesemongers *grumble grumble*

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nic
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#13 » Oct 02 2014 01:12

por'el vior'la Kais wrote:since when does invisibility make you snapfire anyway?


Since 7th edition.

By all means try your approach and I would like to see how well you get on. A well played grav centurion star will not permit you to get into rapid-fire range and can soak a lot of damage with its 2+ multi-wound models and an Eternal Warrior wound tank up front; the odd snap-shot hit will struggle to take it down faster than its massed grav cannon take you down.

As for using allies, nobody is forcing you to. This one is not actually OP, it is a weird sort of anti-OP unit. If your opponent brings nothing OP (or even just non-warp-powered OP stuff) then it is mediocre at best.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#14 » Oct 02 2014 01:52

por'el vior'la Kais wrote:guys come on, we play tau here. you can't just throw in some random unit from another codex just because it is OP.
am I the only one with pride here? besides, I don't see why having two dedicated markerlight squads won't solve the problem...
since when does invisibility make you snapfire anyway? I thought it would give stealth and shrouded which is fixed by throwing in two marker lights.
but besides that, I would say that if you want to find a solution, find a tau one. I mean if you don't you might as well bring all the OP things from every army,
meaning that the only tau that would be left will probably be a couple of riptides, which are what seems to be the mainstay of the lists here anyway.
cheesemongers *grumble grumble*


With all due respect, this post shows you have no understanding of what the OP is facing, and is somewhat patronising as it implies we're all 'cheating' to help him win. Invisibility forces any unit firing at the Blessed unit to Snap-fire, and in combat they only hit on 6s as well. It's a very low WC power that is widely regarded as very OP in and of itself, so the ante has been upped in that regard.

Our Codex does have Markerlights, but as they're forced to Snap Fire, it becomes difficult to get a reliable number of them, especially as q competent opponent will be hammering them with everything they can muster. The best answers lie outside our Codex, and thus we are suggesting them to the opponent.

Please refrain from unhelpful posts such as this in the future, and look into the subject of discussion before entering it.

por'el vior'la Kais

Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#15 » Oct 02 2014 03:12

Nah I won't, I am done with "advanced" tau tactica anyway. You're a bunch of -snip- who think they are better then the rest. So with all due respect, (which is none) you can all sod off with your riptides and farsight enclaves. I believe there was another guy who posted a comment referring to the same problem. My suggestion: stop acting like arrogant -snip-! Kais out!

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boomwolf
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#16 » Oct 02 2014 03:39

Well than, I am sorry that you feel that way, but if you refuse to even be polite, than apparently this is not the community for you.

Altough I'd like to point out a few glaring points in your comments that make me believe you are either here on the purpose of complaining, or you are yourself suffering from the same self-entitlement you blame us for (and I'll ignore the sexsual slur, as even though I'm not, someone else here might be, and there is nothing wrong with that)

First you seem to be oblivious to the rules of the game, given that you think invisibility still works as it did in 6th. considering that its one of the most spoken powers out there and most (ab)used not knowing its details means you are very disconnected from the actual tactical and strategical meta.

Further, you blame us for "the riptide and farsight enclaves" to be own answer to everything-despite the fact nobody but you has even mentioned them here (and I checked), and they do not even make good options to combat the centurianstar to begin with.
Using allies IS a valid stratagy by the way, though not for everyone (I myself do not use allies or even auxiliary races, yet I have brought them up.) it is valid non-the-less, and also possible answers that do not involve allies have been proposed.

Finallny, and most unforgettable-you have chosen insults and assaults as your methods of communication. THAT I cannot let go, this is were we DO take pride, our tactical analysis and unit analysis that we do mainly during rule changes (that I have personally made multiple of these) are one thing, but keeping to a standard of polite behavior is where we truly defining ourselves.


So have a good day, and hopefully you will find a community more fitting to your style, but if you are not willing to shape yourself to the standards we have placed upon ourselves, I'm afraid your tantrum will gain you no sympathy.


I apologize if I stepped out of line here, but I felt that this needed to be said.


EDIT:
Back to topic, another idea came to my head, and I am suprised I forgot it until now considering how much I use it.
What you cant KILL, disable.
You only need to manage a single pinning wound (sniper kroot, sniper drones and gun drones) to potentially reduce the deathstar to the same state of snapshooting you are in, managing to kill 25% of it will apply a Ld check on top of it.

And the obvious solution to invis stars-avoid until the invis fails, than target all guns on it.

por'el vior'la Kais

Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#17 » Oct 02 2014 04:27

-snip- You must feel so superior. Good for you. But really, you must know what I am talking about beside my use of the nono words. If you do not, wel it is your choice to be ignorant, enjoy. I quit this sissy forum for Awesome People.
Edited for family friendly viewing - Sky

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#18 » Oct 02 2014 05:42

por'el vior'la Kais wrote:-snip- You must feel so superior. Good for you. But really, you must know what I am talking about beside my use of the nono words. If you do not, wel it is your choice to be ignorant, enjoy. I quit this sissy forum for Awesome People.
Edited for family friendly viewing - shasocastris


Then leave, you won't be missed and I've Markerlit your account for deletion anyway.

You presence is simply a detriment, your knowledge of the game non-existent, and your argument more limp-wristed than the average CoD vs Battlefield argument on YouTube. You laugh at us for feeling superior, but it's only because you present such a pathetic waste of bandwidth that we have any reason to.

In a nutshell, stop using homophobic slurs and ad-hominem attacks in lieu of an actual point if you want to be taken seriously. It's a hilariously inept way of trying to make an impact.

tehlegend
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#19 » Oct 02 2014 07:21

I guess acting like a spoiled delinquent is one round-a-bout way to beat the unit... Its not a solution I would recommend though.

As I recommended before, we have access to MSU tactics and can attempt to shut down the rest of his army around the expensive death star, we can also pull some cover shenanigans with units using stealth fields for the defensive side of the equation. Shadowsun kiting said unit with crisis suits in cover can absorb a lot of the grav shots with its 2+ cover, and kite away from assault the whole game, plus stacking drones for majority armor save 4+... It'll still need something to boost its accuracy though.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#20 » Oct 02 2014 07:52

boomwolf wrote:EDIT:
Back to topic, another idea came to my head, and I am suprised I forgot it until now considering how much I use it.
What you cant KILL, disable.
You only need to manage a single pinning wound (sniper kroot, sniper drones and gun drones) to potentially reduce the deathstar to the same state of snapshooting you are in, managing to kill 25% of it will apply a Ld check on top of it.


Those are pretty wild chances. Hitting on 6, wounding on 4+ (T5) and they get a 2+ save. Don't think it's all that reliable.

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CoffeeGrunt
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#21 » Oct 02 2014 08:20

Snipers no longer have Pinning by default. The weapon must have it in its profile to inflict the ability.

This leaves Pulse Carbines as the only option in our Codex that does so, IIRC.

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jade_angel
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#22 » Oct 02 2014 08:30

Unless you have huge numbers of gun drones, no. Also, it's not especially uncommon to have a way to give this unit Fearless. It's not an extremely dangerous unit in melee, though - would tarpitting it with Kroot be a workable strategy? With enough Hounds to get a large volume of attacks, you might even get lucky and knock off a wound or two.

I think the best way to overcome the snapshot issue without going outside the codex is a Buffmander/Mark'O combo with as many marker drones as you can muster, but that's awfully specialized. Tetras might be the second-best option, but they'll also be targeted mercilessly. On the other hand, you're snap-shooting anyway; Jink until you're blue in the face.

This may sound dumb, but what about Shadowsun and Darkstrider with a pile of Pathfinders with rail rifles? Their poor saves reduce the utility of the grav-guns, Darkstrider reduces the impact of the T5, while the rail rifles and Shadowsun's fusion blasters punch through the Cents' armor. Also, reduced to T4, one wound getting through from Shadowsun will cook 'em. (ETA: Also, Shadowsun's Stealth field will allow you to shrug off a good number of the wounds that do get through. Throw in the command-link drone for some minor mitigation of accuracy issues even if you can't get any markerlights)

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Myrdin
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#23 » Oct 02 2014 09:08

Too bad for the sniper rifles. Same with flamers. If you could cover the unit in 6 flamer templates from a deepstriking C. suit unit well.... too bad indeed -_-
Also i would not depend on doing anything to the unit in CC. Especially with Kroot.
They will go before the Kroot, and kill few. Then you hit on 6 wound on 6 (see the numbers already diminishing to nonexistent ? heh) and 2+ save comes if you get lucky to get through all that.

As for the Rail Pathfinder units, that sounds pretty decent honestly. x5 each with 3 rail rifles. You would have to get the marker source to begin with from somewhere else, but once you score a few hits, the two pathfinders in the squad should be able to "resuply" at least one of those for the next unit, while you also shoot with the ap1 weaponry.

2x3 or even 3x3 HRR Broadsides sounds good as well. TL AP1 guns. The TL goes a long way.
Tetras offer 2 TL marker shots, so two teams of 2 would be nice as well.

My question though is - how much points is that deathstar and what else remains on the table. As is usual with things like this (the Warlock council on jetbikes with DE Count in front and such) these units are made to soak up all your fire and protect the rest of the army.
It might be good to focus and mow down all that he has to offer and once only the Centaurstar remains, just keep running around, hug cover and block LoS as much as possible. Even if he could teleport, he can cover only one place at a time, and kill only one unit in a turn. So the table should be more or less yours to ensure multiple objectives, and maybe linebreaker.
Then again - i never faced this particular unit so all my suggestions are theory heavy yet have to be tested on the actual battlefield.

Anyway as far as could say, you would have to tailor your list appropriately - something of which i never found "cheese" or unfair. The game pushes you to your limits, and it is a trait of a good general toknow his enemy and prepare accordingly with what he has at his disposal.

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jade_angel
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#24 » Oct 02 2014 10:06

The idea with the Kroot wasn't to actually kill them in melee - especially with the Cents having ATSKNF and a 2+ save, it's a lost cause. (And FNP, if they're Iron Hands!) The idea was more to tie them up and allow the rest of your forces to worry about something else. The Kroot will die, and will probably need an Ethereal to keep them in combat, though. Maybe even Aun'Va, to put up both Stubborn and FNP to maximize the tarpit.

As far as point cost - Draigo is major-league expensive and a Lord of War now, but he's not essential to making this work. The version I played against was 3 Cents, Tigurius and a Librarian that started out there but moved over to a unit of Terminators later. The basic version costs about two well-kitted Riptides; that's a lot but in a 1500+ point game, there's still a lot of army left. You could do it without Tigurius, too, with just a basic ML1 Space Marine Libby, if the dice like you.

Watch out, also, for the Eldar version of this that uses Wraithguard with a Spiritseer and/or Farseer, too. Weaker saves, but meaner guns and majority T6.

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nic
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#25 » Oct 02 2014 10:41

As in the OP Draigo prevents any attempt to tarpit this unit with his Gate of Infinity.

Cover saves are as good a defensive option as pure Tau get. However be aware that the GK list will usually have a librarian as their mandatory HQ and will roll Perfect Timing in about half the games that they want it. A Farsight/Shadowsun bomb is viable against the centurion star but is risky against an opponent who can shunt and deep strike into your face on turn one.

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nic
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Re: Combating the Invisible Centurian Star

Post#26 » Oct 02 2014 04:29

boomwolf wrote:
And the obvious solution to invis stars-avoid until the invis fails, than target all guns on it.


While Tigurius has a decent chance of failing to get Invisibility in the first place once he has it I think you would be waiting a long time before it fails. With the generous dice pool of a GK list the Imperial player will be putting plenty of dice onto this mission-critical blessing and in the unlikely event of failure Tigurius grants a re-roll.

I do not think most players run this as a true death star. The opportunity to run as many Dreadknights as possible will rarely be missed - the new improved cheaper Dreadknight when fully kitted out is in its own way a match for the Riptide and a significant threat. Basically this is an aggressive shunt list that does a lot of damage on the first couple of turns, it does not wait around and it does not really give many opponents that opportunity either.

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