Clever Ork hordes

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Deepstrike
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#11 » Jan 04 2015 05:42

LOL! Hey Kael'yn I just sent him a pm with this info too... Wasn't sure if anyone else was helping him or not.

That being said, I didn't put in all of the other nice info that you posted here either. :P nice summary. :D

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Kael'yn
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#12 » Jan 04 2015 06:02

Shas 'o Deepstrike wrote:LOL! Hey Kael'yn I just sent him a pm with this info too... Wasn't sure if anyone else was helping him or not.


My sparring Ork partner is currently hibernating... So my spies have waking problem when interrogating one of his grot to get the info ! ;)
Our space station is quit empty on week-end. Our Ork specialists may return in few days, I suppose.

slothosaurus
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#13 » Jan 04 2015 07:07

Not sure how you'd have any serious AP strikes without the rail side, but consider some missile-sides against orcs maybe? I don't have too much experience, but 24 twin-linked shots at 36" that could end up glancing vehicles as well seems pretty powerful. They're also very survivable. So that helps. Although, I would want someone else to back this advice up before posting. I'm not close to a veteran. In a 1500 point game, it seems reasonable to fit in a 195 pt unit of 3 for all 24 shots.

Also, I'm with the guy who said not to knock your stealth team! They can be very powerful!

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#14 » Jan 04 2015 10:10

So if the Warlord is dead, the Orks can't WAAAGH!? Interesting and possibly tactically useful.

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Deepstrike
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#15 » Jan 04 2015 11:18

According to the codex... Yes. I didn't even think about it like that... Very interesting indeed!!! :biggrin:

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armchairgeneral
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#16 » Jan 04 2015 11:47

I had the same problem when i fist started out the friend who was teaching me was an ork horde player and would wipe the floor with me time after time for months. But what i learnt from my continuous and unrelenting beat down sessions is that

1. blast markers are great ( i would aim to try and take out as many models from multiplue units as possible watching orks fall back or kill each other is always strangely rewarding)

2. try giving firewarriors carbines 2 shots at 18" with pinning might slow them down.

3. deploy as far back as possible in an organsised blob over watch will hurt more then

4. try farsight enclaves the prefered enermy in close combat will help

5. invest in a flyer or 2 and some more riptides I got mine second hand from one the numours facebook buy swap sell pages for under $50 each

TL;DR - create space blast maker FSE gives you prefered enermy

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Shymer
Fio
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#17 » Jan 05 2015 04:51

If you want to keep some distance from an enemy army with lots of models focused on melee then you may want to look at a couple of things from Stronghold Assault. Firstly, tanglewire can be purchased which is dangerous terrain and doesn't offer much cover to enemy troops. You may want to put that on the flanks to make him think twice about running down the side of the board. Similarly tank traps can be deployed to limit the rate (or dictate the route) by which trukks and other vehicles can traverse the battlefield.

You can combine this with an Aegis Defence Line (and quadcannon to help nullify the flying threat) to give your units some configurable cover - or a Promethium pipeline, perhaps - to give you easy access to a large number of Torrent weapons (XV8 crisis suit team with lots of flamers might be good against Orks - keep them close to a pipeline and the results could be amazing). Flamers also good against open-topped enemy transports.

Don't forget to throw Photon grenades at an ork unit if they are in range. They tend to have poor initiative and can be vulnerable to blind.

They are also vulnerable to morale damage. Try and snipe high leadership characters (a job for your Kroot) and focus fire on units to force morale checks. Also then maximises your pinning chances using pulse carbines/gun drones.

An Ethereal can help stiffen resistance to assault, but I have found that sense of stone doesn't offer as much benefit as storm of fire (overwatch). When combined with good troop positioning and supporting fire rules (particularly with flamer-equipped suits), then you can cause a great deal of damage to an enemy charging you. I like to combine the Ethereal with a Cadre Fireblade to create a solid infantry firebase for my fire warriors.

If the enemy has large units, then you could give him a headache by using single crisis suit units with dual flamers and deep-striking them all over the backfield. If you lose one or two of them to mass assaults, then the enemy has wasted a turn and possibly charged away from your other troops. If he ignores them, then two templates from each suit which ignores cover can cause some casualties. You may need to use Farsight enclaves to get enough FoC slots to accommodate this tactic.

Also - in all this - what are the victory conditions in your games? I sometimes get side-tracked killing/being killed by a foe and forget that victory points win games - and that doesn't always mean having to kill the enemy.
Shas’O Sa’cea Kar’Li Cal’Cha “Commander Fairlight”

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coldwind
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#18 » Jan 05 2015 10:52

thank you for all the advice it is much appreciated! :biggrin:

Also - in all this - what are the victory conditions in your games? I sometimes get side-tracked killing/being killed by a foe and forget that victory points win games - and that doesn't always mean having to kill the enemy.


generally we play annihilation so killing is the only major goal, though we often add secondary circumstances like line breaker and slay the warlord to mix it up a little,, i have been trying to get a relic scenario going so that is also likely to happen but it will almost certainly be annihilation.
by the Tau'va these gue'la have a lot of tanks.

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Kael'yn
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#19 » Jan 05 2015 11:02

coldwind wrote:generally we play annihilation so killing is the only major goal, though we often add secondary circumstances like line breaker and slay the warlord to mix it up a little,, i have been trying to get a relic scenario going so that is also likely to happen but it will almost certainly be annihilation.


Anihilation is boring... And favors Orks or Nids (difficult to wipe out 30 models meatshield units before they run into your lines and kill you in melee). They can assault multiple units loosing the +1 A, but then are assured to tie you in a desperate fight.
The Maelstrom missions (or even the Eternal war ones with objectives to grab) are better balanced. I lost a game against Nids (with GK) and won against Necrons (with Tau), just because the most mobile and/or resourceful army grab objectives in the right time even if its ranks are severly depleted.

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coldwind
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#20 » Jan 05 2015 11:06

Anihilation is boring... And favors Orks or Nids (difficult to wipe out 30 models meatshield units before they run into your lines and kill you in melee).


Very true and i dislike it because i have played it so much and can count how many times i have won on my fingers, which is why I have been trying to get one going. but anihilation is quickest to start so it often goes first.
by the Tau'va these gue'la have a lot of tanks.

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Kael'yn
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#21 » Jan 05 2015 11:14

coldwind wrote:anihilation is quickest to start so it often goes first.


Huh ?
Other missions starts just need to put objectives on the table. Takes 1-2 minutes at best.
I can see that anihilation is easiest to understand and play (not need to look for objectives, ...) but not very entertaining. Specially for the one that is wiped out because he realizes on turn 2 that he don't have the guns/men to do the job. And this lead to Deathstars units for more non-fun playing.

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coldwind
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#22 » Jan 05 2015 11:30

I am not sure why annihilation gets to go most but does and even with objectives people often win through overwhelming victory points, or in a few cases wipeout. this is testament to my bad playing style that has lost me most of my games in three years of gaming.
by the Tau'va these gue'la have a lot of tanks.

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Ell'ran
Shas'Vre
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#23 » Jan 05 2015 03:39

I used to play with an Ork player a lot, and one of the things i learned is that one of the best ways to neutralize a horde for a few rounds (especially Lootas), is to pin them. Just whittle their unit down to a manageable size and then use any kind of pinning weapon to force leadership tests. I do the same thing against Nid's gaunt swarms after taking out their synapse. It's not 100% effective but it's always an option, and is more reliable than making some of their units run away.

As for your list, it really seems like you are fusion heavy. Is this because you're using the Fusion to take out nobs or other vehicles? I remember reading somewhere on this site that Burst Cannon Piranhas was without a doubt the best way to get S5 down onto the tabletop. Roughly 40 points for 8 S5 shots is nothing to sneeze at. Also it's on a relatively durable frame. If you're having trouble keeping your Piranhas alive vs ranged fire you could look into purchasing a Disruption Pod as well. And while we're on the topic of vehicles, I may have missed it, but if you have a Devilfish, those things can work wonders in keeping your Firewarriors alive. I'm curious though, does your opponent usually use Shootas or Sluggas for their Boyz?

You also may want to leave the Riptide at home, and just take more bodies, if you can. As cool as the riptide is, I don't think that your opponent will have any qualms with throwing an entire unit of Boyz at it just to tie it up. How are the Deffcoptas armed? It might be a little unorthodox, but you may want to consider charging the Deffkoptas in the assault phase with the Riptide if they don't have buzzsaws (I think that's what they're called). You can smash and instant kill them and hopefully run them off the table in the sweep.

Final question, how many SMS are you bringing to the field? SMS sound like they would work wonders with you. Bring them on whatever platform you can.

Edit- Oh yeah, and if you're having problems losing your Piranha or any other units that you really want early, you could always throw them into reserve. I do this with Vespid all the time, the best part about it is that you get to bring them in wherever you want, bad part about it is my dice love 1s and 2s.

Tau'va and good luck!

Doubleedit!- Does your opponent often bring fliers? I just saw that you take the VT on the Riptide.

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coldwind
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#24 » Jan 05 2015 04:03

Thanks for the advice! :P

how many SMS are you bringing to the field? SMS sound like they would work wonders with you.

In terms of missile systems i have one twin-linked on the hammer head and one on the riptide (which is also armed with a heavy burst cannon) and if it counts on its shielded missile drones. i know it isn't a lot but again it is dictated by what i can get hold of.

As for your list, it really seems like you are fusion heavy. Is this because you're using the Fusion to take out nobs or other vehicles?

In terms of being fusion heavy it is usually because I have a few really heavily armed vehicles to contend with and i often assemble miniature by the aesthetic as i enjoy the painting and assembelling as well.

About the riptide. I am bringing all my bodies to the battlefield and am also borrowing a two teams of 8 fire warriors from a friend just to make the points even and even then i am stretching for upgrades like sniper rounds and adding in a unit like a drone squad. so it would be a gesture of futility to leave the riptide at home and free up points for more upgrades than i could get for my army.i might consider ditching a stealth team to free up some points though.



Also me and my friend have finalised the scenario and this is just a way for him to try and get his coveted Stompa out onto the field. it is custom scenario that goes like this:
The Orks are trying to retake a looted munitorum factory that is halfway through making a Stompa, the have to get three parts and bring them to the factory to finish it off and get it running, if he can do this he gets the Stompa, right in the middle of the battlefield, but if a can hold the factory for three turns then he can't get the Stompa and I get 3 victory points.
by the Tau'va these gue'la have a lot of tanks.

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Jochmann
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#25 » Jan 06 2015 11:36

coldwind wrote:Also me and my friend have finalised the scenario and this is just a way for him to try and get his coveted Stompa out onto the field. it is custom scenario that goes like this:
The Orks are trying to retake a looted munitorum factory that is halfway through making a Stompa, the have to get three parts and bring them to the factory to finish it off and get it running, if he can do this he gets the Stompa, right in the middle of the battlefield, but if a can hold the factory for three turns then he can't get the Stompa and I get 3 victory points.

To get a Stompa for free is an auto-win button in normal games. Even more, when the game is at 1500 points, as a Stompa is on it's own at roughly 1000 points. I think it would be more interesting to make this a two-step scenario:

The first game is basically what you are planning: You are intercepting an Orc convoy, which is carrying the weapons for a Stompa to the Mekyard. Every weapon you can intercept is not availlable to the Stompa in the second game. You could make this game like:
Six trukks carrying the weapons (1: three big shootas + skorcha + twin linked big shoota, 2: Deff kannon, 3: super-gatler, 4: Mega choppa, 5,6: (Bonus) Ammo for gatler, with each ammo truck reaching the Mekyard he may once negate the effect of "whirr click-click", being able to shoot (in the next round, the gun still has to get reloaded)).
All trukks (even those not carrying weapons) may be covered with a tarpaulin for free, counting as not-open, but you don't know, what the trukk is carrying. He has to write a paper, what the truck is carrying and put it folded on the trukk's platform.
He buys his army with normal rules and has to bring his trucks from one small edge of the board to the other, you are deloying with 24" distance to both short edges.
The game should be played at 1000 points, excluding the weapon carrying trukks.
Another option would be, that he has to buy the vehicles carrying the weapons, each weapons stack requiring passenger spaces, thus enabling him to load them on battlewaggons.
If he doesn't have enough vehicles, he could proxy some or arrive in waves.

The second game is your army (1500 points) vs the Stompa (which is only armed with the weapons your opponent managed to bring across the board) plus 800 points of Orcs.


Secondly:
I recommend to exchange the Rail rifles of your pathfinders for Ion rifles
Last edited by Jochmann on Jan 06 2015 12:49, edited 1 time in total.

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coldwind
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#26 » Jan 06 2015 12:29

Ok thank you! That does sound like a much fairer scenario that will be more fun to play as i do know about the stompa being a win game button as i have tried to kill it before, failing miserably every time, that does sound much better! :D
by the Tau'va these gue'la have a lot of tanks.

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Ell'ran
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#27 » Jan 06 2015 10:45

Only time i ever killed faced a Stompa I killed it by weakening its shields with missiles and railguns (back in 5th) then dropping Shadowsun behind it and turning it into a big piece of terrain, much to my opponents dismay that it didn't explode and kill Shadowsun.

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ArttesThePerishable
Shas'Saal
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#28 » Jan 07 2015 08:38

A pretty cheap and simple addition that you may want to consider is getting Darkstrider and attaching him to your largest firewarrior team (maybe even with a buffmander too ;) )

Nothing seems to make my Ork friends more scared than Darkstrider's unit treating them like over muscled and under gunned Astra Militaris troops via his structural analyzer. :P

The sunshark bomber is also a fairly handy terror bomber against Orks, however it must be treated with caution as the vast ammount of Ork shots can easily endanger it. (But on the plus side that's that much less shots going at your more tactical units)

On another note you seem to bring a lot of anti-armor type weapons. It might just be the play style of my Ork friends, but I can often get away with a single fusion blaster and an Onager Gauntlet on my commander as, even when my foe brings lots of armor my firewarrior pulse rifles tend to be adaquately effective. In fact it's been too long since I've played Orks... I miss having a foe where anti-armor is such a low priority :::(

Last side note: I once had an Ork player whining about how superior Kroot were to Orks in melee due to their weapons having AP in close combat. Given, this was only because I was always sure to keep the numbers advantage (about 18 Kroot vs 10 ork boys) and was the one to charge in so that I scored the extra attacks. Because of that battle there isn't an ork player at our local shop who isn't at least a little weary toward the Kroot.
Blood for the Blood God? No! Fire for my FireBlade!

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