Clever Ork hordes

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Al'tyr
Shas
Posts: 57

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#31 » Apr 21 2015 10:15

Hi, as a tau player who regularly fights against irks I have the following recommendations;

1 - dual (not twin linked) burst cannons and flamers
2 - reserve and outflank, or reserve and deep strike. Crisis, kroot, pathfinders are all excellent at this.
3 - Pirahnas with flechette are funny once or twice, but he will soon learn not to charge them.
4 - Split deployment, make two castles. He will have to assault you, so make him split his forces. Only shoot half his army, and use your riptide nova reactors to redeploy
5 - Refused flank. Set up looking like you are castling in a corner. Pull him in and use your devilish and crisis teams to slip out of his fingers.
6 - try and surround him. He will only want to come towards you, as soon as you get stuff in front and behind him he needs to choose who is more dangerous
7 - use storm of fire on your ethereal more. 3 shots at 15 inches for each fire warrior is awesome.
8 - drones are like 'ardboyz with snazguns, with higher initiative than an ork. Attach a commander with drone controller and use the ethereal a storm of fire and you get 3 BS5 twin linked pulse carbine shots at 9". Throw in a multi spectrum sensor suite and you are ignoring cover too!!!! and this unit can deep strike.

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Jefffar
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 1018

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#32 » Apr 21 2015 11:05

I've never fought Irks, but I am sure they are annoying. :)



As for the learning not to charge Piranha's with Flechette Dischargers - that's a victory of sorts as well as you can arrange squadrons to act as movement blocking walls, slowing their advance, making them bunch up for template weapons and otherwise frustrating your opponent.

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Critacal
Shas
Posts: 31

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#33 » Apr 22 2015 05:53

I honestly feel stealth suits are far too expensive (they have multitracker which is useless) for their lack of effectiveness at staying alive and their firepower, you can get 16 kroot for 3 stealths 96 vs 90, 5 stealth suits cost more than 3 crisis suits with dual burst and 1 flamer.

I felt Kroot were useless as do some other players do or have but after thinking about it for some time they prove to be very useful and cost effective.

3 stealths vs 16 kroot:
both can infiltrate
you get a scoring unit with kroot troop choice can cap objectives in other games.
stealth have more survivability but can be countered by greater numbers .
more shots 12 vs 16/32 or 32/48 with an ethereal nearby where as stealths won't benefit other than ld and using other invocations which prove bad for your firewarriors.
Kroot have a decent chance of holding orks in cc stealths won't.

5 stealths vs 3 crisis suits with dual burst and 1 flamer
9 pts cheaper 150 vs 141
easier to force morale checks if a crisis goes down but crisis units are tougher 1 wound and toughness higher.
4 more burst cannon shots and flamers for overwatch

if you plan on using crisis suits always make the whole unit focused for what it should do it is better to have 6 fusion blaster deep strike near vehicles than 2 fusions 2 plasma and 2 burst cannons near one especially if we are talking about taking out a stompa. if you want to go the extra mile to go anti vehicle you can take twin fusion and add another fusion per a suit and it isn't terribly expensive 57pt per a suit isn't that bad but a bit overkill

Getting broadsides with HYMP and SMS and you have a great blob thinner that won't be hindered by cover.

I feel pathfinders with heavy weapons are far too expensive on a unit that is rather fragile and an attention magnet it can prove to be more effective to have an ethereal with 2 marker drones join a sniper drone team you give the ethereal stealth as well in this combo so he has some protection.

Shas'o Mont'Be'Gel
Shas
Posts: 16

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#34 » Apr 22 2015 02:28

Kroot would get massacred by Choppa Boyz on the charge and could (italicized, because it's a very real possibility) even provide the Orks with additional consolidation movement, something you don't want really.

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Critacal
Shas
Posts: 31

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#35 » Apr 22 2015 04:56

Shas'o Mont'Be'Gel wrote:Kroot would get massacred by Choppa Boyz on the charge and could (italicized, because it's a very real possibility) even provide the Orks with additional consolidation movement, something you don't want really.


If they had los breakers or transport to get them up close without the kroot having an opportunity to shoot them or there was like 30 of them then yeah they will destroy them. Theoretically 10 Kroot can kill 6 Boyz without eavy armour from shooting and overwatch without support within 12" from running 24" away and got 6 on a run, if the numbers are even and the Kroot have range they aren't that greatly disadvantaged.

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Blueshock
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#36 » Apr 23 2015 01:52

Critacal wrote:
Shas'o Mont'Be'Gel wrote:Kroot would get massacred by Choppa Boyz on the charge and could (italicized, because it's a very real possibility) even provide the Orks with additional consolidation movement, something you don't want really.


If they had los breakers or transport to get them up close without the kroot having an opportunity to shoot them or there was like 30 of them then yeah they will destroy them. Theoretically 10 Kroot can kill 6 Boyz without eavy armour from shooting and overwatch without support within 12" from running 24" away and got 6 on a run, if the numbers are even and the Kroot have range they aren't that greatly disadvantaged.


You can also throw in some squishy melee type units like Aun'Shi or a buffmander to make them much more killy too. Hounds in mass wreck things, at 6 points a pop you can't go wrong (beasts with Init 5 and 3 atks on the charge against orks is good stuff).
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Shas'o Mont'Be'Gel
Shas
Posts: 16

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#37 » May 24 2015 12:09

If they had los breakers or transport to get them up close without the kroot having an opportunity to shoot them or here was like 30 of them then yeah they will destroy them. Theoretically 10 Kroot can kill 6 Boyz without eavy armour from shooting and overwatch without support within 12" from running 24" away and got 6 on a run, if the numbers are even and the Kroot have range they aren't that greatly disadvantaged.


Most Ork players will be fielding either one of those two, greentide or massed trukk boys. Greentide is especially strong. A squad of Kroot with hounds is nasty, sure, but they're not a solid counter methinks. For Tau, shooting is more reliable than CC.

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nic
Kroot'La
Kroot'La
Posts: 807

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#38 » May 24 2015 06:10

Shas'o Mont'Be'Gel wrote:Kroot would get massacred by Choppa Boyz on the charge and could (italicized, because it's a very real possibility) even provide the Orks with additional consolidation movement, something you don't want really.


Small units of kroot get massacred by pretty much anything and are best kept for objective grabbing. Large units are another matter.

If you want to use kroot as an actual weapon and not just as cheap objective grabbers then you do need to give them a bit of support and you want to run them in decent sized units. Charging into a blob of 20 kroot with ethereal boost and some markerlight support is painful experience, the psychological impact of dropping 60 dice on the table should not be underestimated. The problem orks have with this is staying in charge range after the overwatch.

As for consolidating - they cannot consolidate into or through another unit so put more kroot in a 2nd rank to block them. Then you have your more expensive Tau sitting behind in support roles - with a bit of kroot conga line trickery you can keep everything in supporting overwatch range.

What I am learning about kroot is that if you want to invest any significant points into them you need to build around them to make them work. Do that and they can be effective due to the sheer number of them you put on the table. It is a shooty horde army with support from the most shooty codex in the game. The fact that they do not utterly fold to everything in the game in CC is just a small bonus.

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ShampocalypseWOW
Shas
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Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#39 » Jul 31 2015 12:59

NEVER deepstrike your riptides. That is a total waste as they are not great in close combat and can easily be locked in, especially against horde armies. You also take away at least one shooting turn, and for what? Riptides can shoot the table with the IA and have the maneuverability to get up closer with an HBC and scoot away. Riptides can do far more damage to hordes shooting than swinging.

To beat this kind of army you need to maximize your volume of fire and its effectiveness. This means lots of pulse rifle shots with plenty of markelight support. Missilepods are great against their beefier guys and vehicles. I would go with an Ionhead over a railhead as it is better vs infantry and light stuff. Crisis suits should be getting anywhere near, using their JSJ to keep out of charge range. Missilepods give them the range and lethality to do this well. Drone squads with gun drones will make good screens to shoot and slow down infantry sqauds. Put them well in front of your gunline but don't send them staight for the enemy as that's wasteful. Remember they too can JSJ. An Aegis Defense Line would also be a wise investment so you can ensure that terrain will not dictate how you set up too much. Always set up as far from the bulk of his guys as possible.

Basically the goal should be to break up his fastest and frontline units first to get them running away. Stay away from close combat and just keep shooting.
Sham'WO

tehlegend
Shas'Ui
Shas'Ui
Posts: 524

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#40 » Aug 01 2015 10:38

Look into giving your vehicles smart missile systems, ignoring LOS and cover is huge against orks. I'd also look into experimenting with using drones on the piranhas as aggressive road blocks. Jsj them forward as fast as possible specifically to stop them moving forward for a turn, and clog choke points. This can easily earn you a turn for two of extra shooting phases as he cannot move through them... He has to go around, or eliminate it in a phase after movement.

Also look into tank shocking your vehicles aggressively at the very last moment to ruin his formations. Cutting off boys with big vehicles can force coherency issues, and you still have a decent chance of instantly killing a nob if he fails his death or glory attack. The attacker dies if he doesn't immobilize or destroy the tank.

Basically. Since our tanks (without sms or templates) and drones don't have the shot output we need to eliminate orks en masse, and they are faster than normal infantry, it would be preferable to using them as screens and choke point blockers rather than kroot... Though of course if he's still coming to you after they are eliminated, the kroot have to bite the bullet and move up.

PeculiarFireWarrior
Shas
Posts: 18

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#41 » Aug 01 2015 02:07

I also face swarm armies commonly and i usualy take farsight and seven bodyguards all with 2 gun drones and two flamers. This supplies your crisis with a defense of 14 drone wounds and flamers, 14 of them deals a lot of wounds epecialy when your opponent cant make a save against them.
Since you don't have the units to do this, as you said stick your ethereal in the centre of your fire base but put the ethereal in the devilfish. Put one unit of kroot strung out in front of your firebase. When the orks come within 20" use invocation of fire this and next turn. This will give you 3 shots from all your kroot and fire warriors. You shoot the ork hordes back far enough to stop them charging (as you have killed enough of the front to reduce how close they are) Continue this until they can eventualt charge you. At this point they will have to charge the kroot as they are being a meatshield for your fire warriors. As everything is within 6 inches they can all overwatch. 8 markerlights, on average one markerlight on. (Do pathfinder overwatch first) Now one of your fire warrior groups can overwatch on 5+ instead. If the kroot survive the charge then deploy your other unit of kroot as far in front as possible and move your firebase back 6 inches. Then you have the same formation as before so you can repeat the whole plan.
While doing this your crisis can jump in and out of terrain killing as many orks as possible, only after killing the trukk though. Use your piranas to grab objectives or come behind the ork horde and shoot at them hoping they will charge the piranas insead of the kroot (So you have another turn of shooting at them)
Keep calm and table your enemies!

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mattruh
Shas
Posts: 43

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#42 » Aug 14 2015 08:22

Has this been brought up yet? I noticed you have several crisis teams with Twin linked weapons. Have you tried running them as two separate weapons? The excess firepower really helps. Also, against his mass infantry, try 3 crisis suits, each armed with two burst cannons, a drone controller, and two gun drones. it will be devastating.

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coldwind
Shas
Posts: 17

Re: Clever Ork hordes

Post#43 » Aug 15 2015 04:45

Ok thank you for all the help! I will certainly be taking all the wonderful advice into account next time I go to battle with my Ork loving friend!
by the Tau'va these gue'la have a lot of tanks.

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