How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
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How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#1 » Jun 01 2016 05:16

Hi, this is my first proper post. I am relatively new to the game, and do not know the best tactics for beating Carnifex and Deathleaper tyranids. I have a game coming up where my friend and I are having a game and I do not know what to do. Please help! :::( I have the starter set plus some pathfinders so not many points avaliable.
any help would be good.

SniperTau

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SomeTauGuy
Shas'Ui
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#2 » Jun 01 2016 06:19

Use your pathfinders to marker light up Deathleaper. You want at least two on him for ignores cover then get your Firewarriors to shoot him to bits. Their weapons will ignore his armor save and have a higher strength than his toughness.

Equip your crisis suits with Plasma Rifles (or maybe Fusion) and send them after the Carnifex. If your pathfinder squad has Rail Rifles in it they can help too. Shoot with the pathfinders first to get some marker lights on the Carnifex and let the Crisis suits use them for increase to hit.

Edit: I'm assuming Deathleaper is lurking in cover near your troops and that the Carnifex is barreling across the table towards you. Tailor your marker light use to what is needed for ignores cover or more to hit.
'Cause I'm a sucker for applying math to things - http://www.grimdarkmath.com

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#3 » Jun 01 2016 06:28

Thanks! I have a feeling he might try bring his tyranid drop pod thing too, so will come prepared with a lot of firepower.
thinking double fusion on 1-2 crisis and a twin-link plasma and burst cannon on a shas'vre.
Thanks for your quick reply. He also has swarms of genestealers too...

(Edit: added info on genestealers)

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
Posts: 3548

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#4 » Jun 01 2016 10:53

Honestly Tyranids are in a very poor spot right now. Especially against Tau. That doesn't mean they won't have stuff that could hurt though but overall we shouldn't have too much trouble with anything he could throw at us.
Basically since he has no good armor saves, no high AV we can deal with everything and anything with just S7 spam (hell even S5 would be enough!) and markerlights to strip cover from them. Maybe some VT depending on how hard he wants to play (eg how many flyrants he plays).

Just remember that both of you are supposed to have fun and tyras already struggle against most armies so you shouldn't go all out with your list.

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SniperTau
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#5 » Jun 02 2016 03:46

Thanks Panzer. :D I am only a beginner so going easy should not be too hard

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#6 » Jun 02 2016 03:49

He does have no flyrants or anything very big but has a mawloc that he recently got, although at this point level......
(and, fun fact, he lived in switzerland for the last 3 years so his codex is in german!)

AlmostMercury
Shas
Posts: 84

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#7 » Jun 02 2016 10:07

You can only snap fire against Deathleaper. I would just ignore it and kill the Carnifex first, which is far more dangerous.

What else does the player take in their army?

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Illuria
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#8 » Jun 02 2016 10:59

AlmostMercury wrote:You can only snap fire against Deathleaper. I would just ignore it and kill the Carnifex first, which is far more dangerous.

What else does the player take in their army?


While true, markerlights specifically say in their entry they can improve snap shots, so you can just markerlight it up and shoot the hell out of it using Coordinated Firepower to share the markerlights out.

Varyn
Shas
Posts: 98

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#9 » Jun 02 2016 01:55

I would personally go for missile pods on all 3 of your crisis suits, you want as much range as you can against tyranids. Split your pathfinders into 2 units of 5.

If you just have the get started! box and pathfinders, the only way you can field the list is if you run it as a CAD (or unbound).

Use the ethereal as your HQ, 2 units of 5 fire warriors as your troop choices (1 with SMS DS8 turret), 3 crisis suits and then 2 units of 5 pathfinders as fast attack

Those are my recommendations. As others have mentioned, tyranids are fairly low tier at the moment so you should be ok. The best thing to do if you're playing casual with friends is to try stuff out and figure out which units you enjoy playing and like the look of.

There's loads of really friendly experienced players on the forum here, so just ask anything :)

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SniperTau
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#10 » Jun 02 2016 03:37

Since he also swarms I want rapid fire so will need missile pods and burst cannons on 2 crisis and flamer and plasma on another.
Thanks for the help Varyn

Varyn
Shas
Posts: 98

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#11 » Jun 02 2016 04:29

Remember than anything S6+ will cause instant death to ripper swarms. Although any massed fire will do, it just means you have to chew through all 3 wounds if its less than S6

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#12 » Jun 02 2016 04:46

Thanks, although i kinda meant he swarms his termagants and genestealers

Varyn
Shas
Posts: 98

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#13 » Jun 02 2016 04:49

Ah ok, in that case, fire warriors are your best choice, save your missile pods/plasma for the bigger stuff :)

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SniperTau
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#14 » Jun 02 2016 05:04

Are breacher teams too much or should I just do fire teams?

AlmostMercury
Shas
Posts: 84

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#15 » Jun 02 2016 05:25

Illuria wrote:
AlmostMercury wrote:You can only snap fire against Deathleaper. I would just ignore it and kill the Carnifex first, which is far more dangerous.

What else does the player take in their army?


While true, markerlights specifically say in their entry they can improve snap shots, so you can just markerlight it up and shoot the hell out of it using Coordinated Firepower to share the markerlights out.


Of course you can raise the BS of snap shots, but before you can do that you need to snap fire your marker lights and drastically reducing their effectiveness. Deathleaper is not a Flyrant, so it's not that high on the target priority list. The OP also doesn't have the models for a Hunter Contingent, so he can't use co-ordinated firepower. If the OP had the models for a Hunter Contingent, there wouldn't even be a need for co-ordinated firepower.

Deathleaper, while very cool, is over costed and fairly ineffective. You either ignore it, or feed it a large fire warrior squad to keep it busy.

From the description of the units, I see the player uses:

A Carnifex
A Mawloc
Genestealers
Termagants
and Deathleaper.

The Carnifex and Mawloc do the heavy lifting of these models. The Carnifex you can interact with, and it only does work if it's equipped with 2 sets of twin-linked devourers. The Mawloc is more difficult to interact with, but may very well kill itself or make itself ineffective with common dice rolls. To be effective, the Mawloc needs to not scatter, needs to not kill what it's surfacing under, and then needs to roll itself into ongoing reserves on the mishap table. It's a lot of moving parts and a single Mawloc has quite the potential variance. Without lucky rolls it will do maybe 3 or 4 Blasts through the entire game.

Tyranid players (myself included) would run multiple Mawlocs in order to accomplish anything with them. That being said, Tau might actually be an army that a Mawloc could do CC damage against, and they are the cheapest source MC wounds in the codex. They can also actually attack Invisible units without penalty. Not all of that applies here.

Genestealers are overcosted glass cannons. They will do very well for their cost in combat. In fact, they might be the most point efficient combat unit in the game while in combat, BUT they die to a stiff breeze outside of combat. If you're afraid they can get to your lines, you shoot them and they die. They're actually most effective at this time as backfield objective holders as they pack quite the counter charge.

Termagants are just guardsmen with 12" guns, and if the player has paid for the 18" guns they're overcosted again.

Step one, kill the Carnifex. Step two, kill the swarm that is closest to you. Step three, ignore Deathleaper unless there's nothing else to shoot at. Step four, profit.

What I would also like to know is which units the tyranid player is using for Synapse control? The gaunts and Carnifex will be taking leadership tests each turn in order to do what the player wants. They're leadership isn't good, so they should be running for cover or charging a unit (depending on behaviour) without some assistance. Has your opponent been rolling on the instinctive behaviour table?

Final note, Crisis suits with flamers will eat these models alive.
Last edited by AlmostMercury on Jun 02 2016 05:33, edited 4 times in total.

AlmostMercury
Shas
Posts: 84

Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#16 » Jun 02 2016 05:27

SniperTau wrote:Are breacher teams too much or should I just do fire teams?


Breacher teams might actually struggle against Genestealers based on range. If you get them in the shooting phase, they' kill them. But even a gene stealer or two will do some real work against Breachers in combat.

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SniperTau
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#17 » Jun 02 2016 05:45

Thanks again. for some reason the tyranid player does not know what synapse is? please help me understand what that is.

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SniperTau
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: How to beat Carnifex and Deathleaper

Post#18 » Jun 02 2016 05:50

I think the terrain is a no-mans-land type one with craters and stuff, so have divided the fire warriors into 5-man fire-teams for easy spread. one has the DS8 and the other has the shas'ui so I spread the advantages. which drones for my pathfinders would be best?

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