Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
Vailex
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#11 » Jun 06 2016 03:44

Oh ya its a super cheesy list. The Nova Open is one of the biggest tournaments in the US and all the cheese comes out to play. Now it is possible I wont play this list in the first day but I am pretty certain I will come across it at some point. I already know 2 people who are bringing it. It is totally not cool to play against. The guys playing it are nice guys they are simply super competitive and are preparing for this tournament. I like to have some kind of a balance with fluff myself. I hate the fact that I have to bring the inquisitor already to stop the Whitescars gladius scouting nonsense.

The Culexus assassin is probably the best plan as I can move within 12 inches of the bike squad and their blessings go away. Ill have to take away from something I guess.

I should be able to handle a lot of lists. Plenty of str 7 ignores cover in OSC hitting rear armor. Some D with stomps and some AP2.

User avatar
nic
Kroot'La
Posts: 743

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#12 » Jun 06 2016 04:21

Vailex wrote:Oh ya its a super cheesy list. The Nova Open is one of the biggest tournaments in the US and all the cheese comes out to play. Now it is possible I wont play this list in the first day but I am pretty certain I will come across it at some point. I already know 2 people who are bringing it. It is totally not cool to play against. The guys playing it are nice guys they are simply super competitive and are preparing for this tournament. I like to have some kind of a balance with fluff myself. I hate the fact that I have to bring the inquisitor already to stop the Whitescars gladius scouting nonsense.

The Culexus assassin is probably the best plan as I can move within 12 inches of the bike squad and their blessings go away. Ill have to take away from something I guess.


Are they applying the new GW FAQ which allows you to deploy Infiltrators normally if you prefer? That can be a good option against hostile servo-skulls

The thing is that if you do deploy this way and they go right down the middle (which they quite possibly will) you can decide which side of their unit you want all the damage to hit and move the flank-guard kroot on that side in so that one of them is the nearest model when you launch into your huge Coordinated Firepower shooting attack on the turn their defenses are down. Obviously you would be aiming to either reduce their damage output (techmarines) or ability to buff (librarians) and with multiple targets it gets very hard for your opponent to deny you a 'closest model' on something good - he only has so many storm shields in there.

The other thing to consider is when room to maneuver is running out charging a unit of kroot into the deadliest part of the death star ahead of your stormsurge - if the kroot eat all the S8 AP1 hits for a turn they will keep your GC alive longer to maximise your chances of rolling that 6 on the stomp. Once you are running out of bubble-wrap waiting for them to charge you lets them position their characters just as they want, going on the offensive can seem rash but if it gets your models into the better position it might be worth it.

Vailex
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#13 » Jun 06 2016 04:39

nic wrote:Are they applying the new GW FAQ which allows you to deploy Infiltrators normally if you prefer? That can be a good option against hostile servo-skulls

The thing is that if you do deploy this way and they go right down the middle (which they quite possibly will) you can decide which side of their unit you want all the damage to hit and move the flank-guard kroot on that side in so that one of them is the nearest model when you launch into your huge Coordinated Firepower shooting attack on the turn their defenses are down. Obviously you would be aiming to either reduce their damage output (techmarines) or ability to buff (librarians) and with multiple targets it gets very hard for your opponent to deny you a 'closest model' on something good - he only has so many storm shields in there.

The other thing to consider is when room to maneuver is running out charging a unit of kroot into the deadliest part of the death star ahead of your stormsurge - if the kroot eat all the S8 AP1 hits for a turn they will keep your GC alive longer to maximise your chances of rolling that 6 on the stomp. Once you are running out of bubble-wrap waiting for them to charge you lets them position their characters just as they want, going on the offensive can seem rash but if it gets your models into the better position it might be worth it.


Good points. I definitely need to charge with the Storm Surge to get those stomps in. I didn't think about throwing kroot in to absorb pf attacks. Most of the times I deploy I do it on one side and then deploy my OSC either in the middle or on the other side. I generally want to be in terrain for covers saves.

Vailex
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#14 » Jun 06 2016 04:42

Here is an updated list. Throws more reliable AP2 out and can deal with the powers. Once the powers are down its over for that death star. I just have to figure out how to deploy the Culexus.

[spoiler=]+++ tau cadre (1849pts) +++

++ Tau Empire: Codex (2015) (Tau Hunter Contingent) (1675pts) ++

+ Core (1044pts) +

Hunter Cadre (1044pts)
Command (150pts)
Commander (150pts)
XV8 Commander Crisis Suit (65pts) [Command and Control Node (15pts), Multi-spectrum Sensor Suite (20pts), Puretide Engram Neurochip (15pts), Stimulant Injector (15pts)]
Elite (171pts)
XV8 Crisis Battlesuits (171pts)
Crisis Shas'ui (57pts) [Early Warning Override (5pts), 2x Plasma Rifle (30pts)]
Crisis Shas'ui (57pts) [Early Warning Override (5pts), 2x Plasma Rifle (30pts)]
Crisis Shas'ui (57pts) [Early Warning Override (5pts), 2x Plasma Rifle (30pts)]
Fast Attack (110pts)
Pathfinder Team (55pts) [5x Pathfinder (55pts)]
Pathfinder Team (55pts) [5x Pathfinder (55pts)]
Heavy Support (438pts)
KV128 Stormsurges (438pts)
KV128 Stormsurge (438pts) [Advanced Targeting System (3pts), Early Warning Override (5pts), Pulse Driver Cannon (15pts), Shield Generator (50pts), Twin-linked Airbursting Fragmentation Projector (5pts)]
Troops (175pts)
Breacher Team (45pts) [5x Fire Warrior with Pulse Blaster (45pts)]
Kroot Carnivores (65pts) [10x Kroot (60pts), Kroot Hound (5pts)]
Kroot Carnivores (65pts) [10x Kroot (60pts), Kroot Hound (5pts)]

+ Auxiliary (631pts) +

Optimized Stealth Cadre (631pts)
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits (95pts) [Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon (30pts), Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon (30pts)]
Stealth Shas'ui with Fusion Blaster (35pts) [Fusion Blaster (5pts)]
XV25 Stealth Battlesuits (95pts) [Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon (30pts), Stealth Shas'ui with Burst Cannon (30pts)]
Stealth Shas'ui with Fusion Blaster (35pts) [Fusion Blaster (5pts)]
XV95 Ghostkeel Battlesuits (441pts)
Ghostkeel Shas'vre (148pts) [Advanced Targeting System (3pts), Cyclic Ion Raker, Early Warning Override (5pts), Twin-linked Fusion Blaster (10pts)]
Ghostkeel Shas'vre (148pts) [Advanced Targeting System (3pts), Cyclic Ion Raker, Target Lock (5pts), Twin-linked Fusion Blaster (10pts)]
Ghostkeel Shas'vre (145pts) [Cyclic Ion Raker, Target Lock (5pts), Twin-linked Fusion Blaster (10pts)]

+ Primary Detachment +

Primary Detachment

++ Inquisition: Codex (2013) (Inq Inquisitorial Detachment) (34pts) ++

+ HQ (34pts) +

Ordo Xenos Inquisitor (34pts) [Bolt Pistol, Carapace Armour, Chainsword, 3x Servo Skulls (9pts)]

++ Officio Assassinorum: Dataslate (2014) (Officio Assassinorum Detachment) (140pts) ++

+ Elites (140pts) +

Culexus Assassin (140pts)

Created with BattleScribe[/spoiler]

Vailex
Shas'Saal
Posts: 39

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#15 » Jun 14 2016 09:12

Just an update. I had the chance to play against an eldar seer star list and added a culexus. Worked like a charm. Just had to be careful of positioning for one eye open ruling. To beat the IH star you need the culexus and group up to move forward.

Bolter&Rail
Shas'Saal
Posts: 62

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#16 » Jun 17 2016 06:41

I am also planning on adding a Culexus Assassin for the points already mentioned. Also does NOVA nerf 2+ rerollable like ITC does? I assume not given the discussion, but at ITC a 2+ rerollable is a 4+ on the second roll which drastically changes the scariness of this list.

The Tau Hunter Contingent should be as good as it gets for us dealing with deathstars. Markerlights improve snapshots and drones are BS2 anyway so firing a handful of drones at the deathstar first shouldn't be too painful. Just having a handful of markerlight hits before you fire the rest of your army against the deathstar is absolutely crucial to improve BS or ignore cover. Just 3 ML hits will have you firing at better than normal BS and your entire army will benefit from it. I thing adding a drone net formation into this list instead of squishy pathfinders could be key. You will want a ton of makerlight options already for the stormsurge and you can have them all fire at a deathstar if you need to. Between that and a Culexus you can make invisibility a non-issue and then it all comes down to the armour save of the deathstar. Looks like you are bringing the plasma suits to help get around that, but could also consider running the melta blast on some of the ghostkeels as well if you want some additional low AP (I agree that Cyclic Ion Raker is a better gun but maybe not x3 for this situation)...

My 2 cents would likely drop a ghostkeel and pathfinders to make room for a drone net formation. Ya you lose the firepower of a ghostkeel, but you know your needed markerlights (for the stormsurge and deathstar) won't get alpha-striked and will really grant your army improved BS or ignore cover wherever you want. Ghostkeels are fantastic, but they are risky since they won't eat any firepower since opponents wont shoot at them and they are forced to play the mid-field and I have lost many a ghostkeel unit to psychic shriek or assault...

Syzygy
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#17 » Aug 11 2016 10:03

I'm engaging a similar deathstar soon and I'm frankly unsure how I'll be able to dent it.

The plan is to bring the following formation detachments:

Heavy Retribution Cadre
Stormsurge -- pulse driver cannon, burst cannon
Stormsurge -- pulse driver cannon, burst cannon
Ghostkeel -- fusion collider, fusion blaster
Riptide Wing
Riptide -- ion accelerator, plasma rifle
Riptide -- ion accelerator, plasma rifle
Riptide -- ion accelerator, plasma rifle
Drone Net
4xmarker drone squads

and a Farsight CAD with 6 vanilla suits to snag objectives and a mark'o commander.

This is what I'm facing:

[spoiler=]Wolf Guard Battle Leader Thunderwolf / Runic Armour / Power Fist / Storm Shield

Wolf Guard Battle Leader Thunderwolf / Runic Armour / Power Fist / Storm Shield

Wolf Guard Battle Leader Thunderwolf / Runic Armour / Power Fist / Storm Shield

Elites:

Servitor

Servitor

Fast Attack:

Drop Pod

AoD Fist of Medusa Strike Force(Iron Hands Chapter Tactics)

Command:
Librarius Conclave
Librarian ML2 / Power Armour / Bolt Pistol / Force Stave / Space Marine Bike
Librarian ML2 / Power Armour / Bolt Pistol / Force Axe / Space Marine Bike
Librarian ML2 / Power Armour / Bolt Pistol / Force Axe / Space Marine Bike

Strike Force Command
Captain / Chapter Master / Artificer Armour / The Gorgon's Chain / Lightning Claw / Power Fist / Space Marine Bike
Core:
Armoured Task Force
Techmarine / Bolt Pistol / Power Axe / Servo-arm / Space Marine Bike
Whirlwind
Whirlwind
Whirlwind

Auxiliary:
Honoured Ancients
Dreadnought / Power Fist / MM

Dark Angels Allied Detachment
HQ:
Librarian ML2 / Power Armour / Bolt Pistol / Force Axe / Space Marine Bike
Elites:
Ravenwing Command Squad Black Knight(3) / Ravenwing Apothecary / Ravenwing Company Banner
Troops:
Scout Squad Scout(4) / Sergeant[/spoiler]

3+FNP on libbies and 2+ FNP on chapter master... Everyone's seen it, now, just in varying shapes and configurations. Nigh-impossible to kill.
The plan is to simply keep putting pie plates on the blob. I've never ran the heavy retribution cadre before, but I reckon its special rules are going to limit the deathstar's movement dramatically. No turbo boosting/running, halved charge range. I plan to simply use this formation to kite the deathstar in the middle while I hopefully play to the objectives with my weaponless obsec suits. I'll alpha strike the whirlwinds and peripheral units, leaving all but the star to worry about, keeping my important suits wrapped in drones, and altogether keeping my distance.

Anyone have experience with this sort of plan? Is the heavy retribution cadre as effective as I'm hoping?

GeorgeJetson
Shas
Posts: 139

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#18 » Aug 12 2016 01:48

Syzygy,

The good news is that, unless I misread something, I don't see a lot of Grav in that list. Which will mean that your Riptides will be more (theoretically) survivable. I would use your Riptides to strip hull points from his Whirlwinds and vaporize the Ravenguard.

Maybe I'm suffering from an undiagnosed mental disability or adult learning disorder, but to me the Stormsurge would be a pretty good hard-counter to the IH FNP/IWND deathstar. IIRC, marines on Bikes (Librarians or otherwise) are T5. With the PBC (without anchors) you get two (four with anchors, but you have to keep him in range) Strength D (read: instant death, no FNP roll to even a bike mounted marine) per shooting phase, plus the option for two pretty high Str (albeit low AP) pie-plates. 8 wounds on a T6 GMC is not exactly a push-over, plus your 12" move and D-stomps.

Are you planning on using the Pulse Driver Cannon or the Pulse Blast Cannon?

I would play aggressively with the SSs and take the PBC (I've yet to use the Storm surge without it). Positioning the Ghostkeel for the re-roll benefits would be the biggest tactical concern, IMO, that and saturation of fast-moving targets. It may take a couple turns to disable it, but I think you could start removing models theoretically turn 1 from the deathstar (I would alpha-strike the Conclave or the Chapter Master with D-missiles, you can pie-plate the whirlwinds once the Libbies and Wolf Guard are smoldering craters).

Syzygy
Shas
Posts: 10

Re: Engaging the Iron Hands Death Star

Post#19 » Aug 14 2016 11:02

The PBC is solid for its D profile and two shots, but I actually have a different plan. I think using anchors with the PBC is foolish in most circumstances, as being with 9 inches will mean a guaranteed assault with no recourse in melee. Look out sir will mitigate most of the D shots before I can remove any important models. I imagine the star will be deployed in tact and already blobbed. The scariest thing about this particular star is they're all mounted, T5, and turboboosting 4D6 with the Ravenwing company banner. It's an extremely mobile star. Stomps are great, but they strike me as too mathematically implausible to be worth the risk. His list dishes out swathes of S10AP2 melee and would have to trouble butchering the surges. They'd each likely have one opportunity to get a 6, and even then... look out sir.

My plan is to use driver cannons with both surges on opposite corners of the battlefield. They'll keep fire on the star to eliminate its turboboost mobility, with the keel giving twin linked as along as it can assault move safely away each turn. Once it gets a bad roll, it'll likely get caught and act as a speed bump. The riptides shouldn't have trouble dealing with the whirlwinds, which will likely be attempting to pummel my marker drones. I haven't done the mathhammer, but multiple S10AP2 pie plates covering 8-9 models each turn = 36 max hits with anchors. I'm not sure if it's better to save the D missiles or alpha strike them ASAP to start removing models.

Return to “Engaging the Alien”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest