Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
Jacket
Shas'Saal
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#55 » Jul 15 2017 12:30

Oh for the ITC players on the latest frontline they have said that when chapter tactics come out they will enforce a stance at tournaments that you have to have each detachment in your army painted correctly. So if you have ultramarines and white scars you need to paint them so people can tell.

I imagine this will go for Tau, but thankfully all you need to do with Tau is change the stripes colour and put like a dot or square here and there. Ah we even manage to troll their colour scheme requirements.

I can only imagine such injustice from us will get us another solid round of nerfs.

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Panzer
Shas'Saal
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#56 » Jul 15 2017 12:35

Jacket wrote:Oh for the ITC players on the latest frontline they have said that when chapter tactics come out they will enforce a stance at tournaments that you have to have each detachment in your army painted correctly. So if you have ultramarines and white scars you need to paint them so people can tell.

I imagine this will go for Tau, but thankfully all you need to do with Tau is change the stripes colour and put like a dot or square here and there. Ah we even manage to troll their colour scheme requirements.

I can only imagine such injustice from us will get us another solid round of nerfs.

Well that only really matters for special characters though. You could just take a custom chapter and say it's a successor of chapter X on tournaments with the downside not being able to use special characters. ^^

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Sa'cea Mont'yr
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#57 » Jul 16 2017 12:20

Here's some examples of what I'd expect, if they were going to actually pay attention to their own lore:

T'au: Battleforged armies of T'au SEPT may take +1 unit over maximum in one of the following categories: Troops, Heavy Support, Elite or Fast Attack, to signify their ability to competently field all types of Tau units. This is one per army, not detachment.

FSE: Battleforged armies of Farsight Enclave SEPT reduce models lost by failed morale checks by 2 in units of Fire Warriors and battlesuits. Alternatively, FSE Battleforged armies may take XV8 Squads of four or more as troops, and Bodyguard Squads as Elites. (This pre-supposes that XV8 costs will come down a small bit)

Sa'cea: Battleforged armies allow Battlesuits and Infantry with Sa'cea SEPT to move an extra 2" in ruins, to signify their familiarity with urban terrain.

Vior'la: In Battleforged Vior'la armies, squads of Strikers and Breachers may fire Rapid Fire weapons after advancing at -1 BS to signify their hot-headedness and aggresiveness.

Kel'shan: Battleforged armies that do not include alien allies increase the leadership value of infantry and battlesuits by +1 to signify their distrust of alien allies.

Fal'shia: Drone units in a Battleforged army are +1 Leadership to signify the sept's use and familiarity with drone technology.

As it stands, though, I'm interested to see what the SM, CSM, and even the AM sub-unit specific traits are.
Shas'el Sa'cea Cal'Ka Mon'tyr

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Unusualsuspect
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#58 » Jul 16 2017 03:02

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:Here's some examples of what I'd expect, if they were going to actually pay attention to their own lore:

T'au: Battleforged armies of T'au SEPT may take +1 unit over maximum in one of the following categories: Troops, Heavy Support, Elite or Fast Attack, to signify their ability to competently field all types of Tau units. This is one per army, not detachment.


This should probably be reworded to work in 8e's detachment scheme, since "may take +1 unit over maximum" doesn't tell us which detachments (if any), and how many detachments, this is intended to benefit (or is the idea that ALL detachments get this benefit, including the Lord of War, Flyer, and Supreme Commander detachments? That'd be pretty damn strong, IMO).

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Panzer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#59 » Jul 16 2017 04:38

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:Here's some examples of what I'd expect, if they were going to actually pay attention to their own lore:

T'au: Battleforged armies of T'au SEPT may take +1 unit over maximum in one of the following categories: Troops, Heavy Support, Elite or Fast Attack, to signify their ability to competently field all types of Tau units. This is one per army, not detachment.

It also doesn't make much sense for a bonus since detachments are not restricted and it's better to take multiple small ones instead of one big one to get more CP.
Useless bonus for T'au, try harder next time please. :P


Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:FSE: Battleforged armies of Farsight Enclave SEPT reduce models lost by failed morale checks by 2 in units of Fire Warriors and battlesuits. Alternatively, FSE Battleforged armies may take XV8 Squads of four or more as troops, and Bodyguard Squads as Elites. (This pre-supposes that XV8 costs will come down a small bit)

Since battleshock is a rather weak effect that seems like a pretty weak bonus as well. Crisis as Core are very overrated as well since you can easily just take the detachment with elite slots for more Crisis.
I'd rather see something that supports aggressive playstyle with Battlesuits. Like being able to charge even after falling back or having the deep strike range reduced to 6" or something along those lines.


Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:Sa'cea: Battleforged armies allow Battlesuits and Infantry with Sa'cea SEPT to move an extra 2" in ruins, to signify their familiarity with urban terrain.

Ruins don't reduce your movement though. Those are 7e rules.

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:Vior'la: In Battleforged Vior'la armies, squads of Strikers and Breachers may fire Rapid Fire weapons after advancing at -1 BS to signify their hot-headedness and aggresiveness.

Sounds good, I'd be fine with that even though it would invalidate one of the Markerlight bonus again so there's room for improvement as well.

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:Kel'shan: Battleforged armies that do not include alien allies increase the leadership value of infantry and battlesuits by +1 to signify their distrust of alien allies.

Can't say much about that. I still need to see how significant special rules that affect morale are. Battleshock is underwhelming (and for that it would be straight worse than the FSE bonus anyway).

Sa'cea Mont'yr wrote:Fal'shia: Drone units in a Battleforged army are +1 Leadership to signify the sept's use and familiarity with drone technology.

Same as above.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#60 » Jul 16 2017 06:53

This article explains more on chapter tactics and the codex in general:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/201 ... ge-post-1/

We can expect SEPT rules to be army-wide and benefit almost everything, instead of those more restricted from the past (like Salamander's mastery of melta and flame).
Also, 6 Warlord Traits for any army and 1 per SEPT, 1 Stratagem for each SEPT and a lot more for the entire army or specific units

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Jefffar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#61 » Jul 16 2017 08:19

I can see a fall back and shoot benefit being picked up by one of our more 'disciplined' septs. T'au maybe?

It fits well with Kauyon style play.

An aggressive sept may see an advance and shoot style benefit. Another sept may have a bonus to shoot when stationary (reroll 1s, +1, ignore cover, etc)

I'd expect Farsight to have something that favours aggressive Manta Striking or offsets some of our close combat issues. Preferred enemy Orcs equivalent is always something too. So is Crisis Suits becoming troops.

I don't expect any of these bonuses to be super huge, but they will all be good and worth taking given the current direction GW .

We'll see where it all goes in the next few months.

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Panzer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#62 » Jul 16 2017 08:30

The thing is, if the bonus is nothing worth mentioning, nobody will restrict themselves to using just one Sept and play a mixed T'au army instead.
I feel like we should expect the Sept rules to have about as big an impact as the Ultramarine Chapter Tactic.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#63 » Jul 16 2017 08:52

Panzer wrote:The thing is, if the bonus is nothing worth mentioning, nobody will restrict themselves to using just one Sept and play a mixed T'au army instead.
I feel like we should expect the Sept rules to have about as big an impact as the Ultramarine Chapter Tactic.


But nobody will restrict themselves to that if one sept bonus will be best for vehicles, other for infantry and another for battlesuits, unless they restrict even more things... Though yea the drones not working cross sept is the biggest obstacle to multisept army now, but that's still managable. And short of making markerlights sept only, I can't see anything preventing you to bring longstrike+friends to otherwise non T'au army.

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Panzer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#64 » Jul 16 2017 09:45

Gragagrogog wrote:
Panzer wrote:The thing is, if the bonus is nothing worth mentioning, nobody will restrict themselves to using just one Sept and play a mixed T'au army instead.
I feel like we should expect the Sept rules to have about as big an impact as the Ultramarine Chapter Tactic.


But nobody will restrict themselves to that if one sept bonus will be best for vehicles, other for infantry and another for battlesuits, unless they restrict even more things... Though yea the drones not working cross sept is the biggest obstacle to multisept army now, but that's still managable. And short of making markerlights sept only, I can't see anything preventing you to bring longstrike+friends to otherwise non T'au army.

Well it's not just Sept rules we will get. There will be plenty of relics and stratagems etc. as well which one can only use if your whole army shares that specific Sept keyword.
We will see how it'll work out but I doubt the Sept bonus will be something super minor considering that Ultramarines just got Fly-light and LD+1 on all their non-vehicle units.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#65 » Jul 16 2017 01:00

Panzer wrote:...
There will be plenty of relics and stratagems etc. as well which one can only use if your whole army shares that specific Sept keyword.
...


Maybe, but kroot and vespid don't have any septs... It would be kinda weird if taking kroot would prevent you from taking such stratagems or relics... I always though Tau were the "inclusive" ones, almost the exact opposite of... Well... every1 else in the galaxy.

756.M37 - The tau establish their first interstellar colony on Tau'n. (Codex: Tau Empire, 28)

But not that it wouldn't make sense that they would develop entirely different cultures over few thousand years, even if T'au culture was originally entirely homogeneous in the first place. What doesn't make sense is drones suddenly becoming racist.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#66 » Jul 16 2017 03:16

Gragagrogog wrote:
Panzer wrote:...
There will be plenty of relics and stratagems etc. as well which one can only use if your whole army shares that specific Sept keyword.
...


Maybe, but kroot and vespid don't have any septs... It would be kinda weird if taking kroot would prevent you from taking such stratagems or relics... I always though Tau were the "inclusive" ones, almost the exact opposite of... Well... every1 else in the galaxy.

756.M37 - The tau establish their first interstellar colony on Tau'n. (Codex: Tau Empire, 28)

But not that it wouldn't make sense that they would develop entirely different cultures over few thousand years, even if T'au culture was originally entirely homogeneous in the first place. What doesn't make sense is drones suddenly becoming racist.


Kroot and vespid aren't part of any sept, as only proper Tau specimens are. Kroot and Vespid are auxiliaries; they live on their own planets doing their thing and have treaties with the T'au Empire - much alike Adeptus Mechanicus and the Imperium.

Thus, it makes sense for drones to not help those units, as the drones aren't coded to help any non-Tau.

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#67 » Jul 16 2017 03:27

Vector Strike wrote:
Thus, it makes sense for drones to not help those units, as the drones aren't coded to help any non-Tau.


And it's probably not a bio-print they recognize, but rather a tech-print which tau use in their armor that the drones recognize

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#68 » Jul 16 2017 03:44

Ye, but not helping tau from other septs is kinda stretching it... Sure there could be some chip with unique encryption for each sept, but why make it this way? Are the septs rly that detached from each other they wouldn't sacrifice drones to help each other?

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Vector Strike
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#69 » Jul 16 2017 04:11

Gragagrogog wrote:Ye, but not helping tau from other septs is kinda stretching it... Sure there could be some chip with unique encryption for each sept, but why make it this way? Are the septs rly that detached from each other they wouldn't sacrifice drones to help each other?


For 2 reasons (none based on fluff):
- Balance. If stuff from one SEPT helped stuff from other SEPT, CHAPTER stuff had to help other CHAPTER stuff too. And this was, alongside ICs joining units, the heart of the deathstar matter. Without buffs helping stuff outside their coded <FACTION>, things are smoother to control.
- List building. By making SETS not interacting, players will be more prone to play with 1 SEPT only - and thus reaching the 'rewared by playing fluff lists' promise from GW team months ago.

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#70 » Jul 16 2017 04:14

We may be getting off trail. The saviour protocols I am looking at just say 'T'au Empire Infantry or Battlesuit'

Which kroot and vespid have both: T'au Empire, and Infantry as keywords. So drones protocols work for both of them, and says nothing about 'Sept'

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Vector Strike
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#71 » Jul 16 2017 05:22

Glarblar wrote:We may be getting off trail. The saviour protocols I am looking at just say 'T'au Empire Infantry or Battlesuit'

Which kroot and vespid have both: T'au Empire, and Infantry as keywords. So drones protocols work for both of them, and says nothing about 'Sept'


By the Greater Good, you're right!

Ok, nevermind my earlier explanation on kroot and vespid

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#72 » Jul 16 2017 07:39

Glarblar wrote:We may be getting off trail. The saviour protocols I am looking at just say 'T'au Empire Infantry or Battlesuit'

Which kroot and vespid have both: T'au Empire, and Infantry as keywords. So drones protocols work for both of them, and says nothing about 'Sept'


just a quick point, the faq changed it to <sept> drones, and <sept> Infantry / <sept> Battlesuits, so it did change.

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