Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#37 » Jul 14 2017 01:41

Jacket wrote:Every Kel'shan suit gains an additional slot to purchase another piece of wargear/vehicle gear/signature system but it can't be a weapon.


Integrated support system? I like it, but wouldn't it be a problem that in only affects battlesuits and not the whole army?

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thesnailmaster
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#38 » Jul 14 2017 02:45

Glarblar wrote:
Jacket wrote:Every Kel'shan suit gains an additional slot to purchase another piece of wargear/vehicle gear/signature system but it can't be a weapon.


Integrated support system? I like it, but wouldn't it be a problem that in only affects battlesuits and not the whole army?


Well not all chapter tactics really benefited every single unit in the army and I think it would be foolish and limiting to make Craftworld/Septs/Dynastys try and do that. If they allow you to theme your army around a particular fighting style while giving you a stratagem that also supports this, then that is what I would want to see.

If you look at the Ultramarine chapter tactic, it supports a mobile gunline, but assault units don't really gain anything from it at all.

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#39 » Jul 14 2017 03:17

These could be interesting:

GW:
Farsight Enclaves- +1 to hit rolls in melee
T'au Sept- re-roll to wound rolls of 1 if the unit remained stationary this turn
Vior'la Sept- models can advance and fire Rapid Fire weapons, but at a -1 to hit penalty

FW:
Dal'yth- Units can add +1 to wound rolls when targeting Vehicles
Ke'lshan- Battlesuit units may take an additional item from the Support Systems list

Jacket
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#40 » Jul 14 2017 03:28

If they do bring back vehicle and commander stuff then I think Kel'shan should allow them to take an additional past their normal limit on the unit in question. So suits can take one more of theirs, vehicles can of theirs, and commanders can take an extra signature system. Assuming these come back.

I think the FSE one is kind of weak honestly. I would allow them to have +1 to hit in melee and reroll 1's on all battlesuit attacks because the FSE is the crack suit pilots of the Tau.

I've also got ideas for unique stratagems for Kel'shan and I could think of a few generic Tau ones as well.

If those are the 5 septs and we only get 6 then I could see a 5th sphere sept getting rules. However if we get 8 we might see rules for 2 more established ones. If they did some "lesser" known Sept's which two additional ones would we like to see?

Of the 3rd sphere septs I think this one sounds the most interesting other than the big plot centric ones.

Ksi'm'yen a planet conquered mostly through subtlety and luck. They are also noted as having moved their humans to a safer area of the Tau Empire so there is a big altruistic streak to them to contrast with the xenophobic Kel'shan.

I could see stealth suits (of all kinds) and auxiliaries getting a bonus under them.

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nic
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#41 » Jul 14 2017 03:43

Jacket wrote:
If those are the 5 septs and we only get 6 then I could see a 5th sphere sept getting rules. However if we get 8 we might see rules for 2 more established ones. If they did some "lesser" known Sept's which two additional ones would we like to see?



I would be curious to see D'yanoi Sept have a bit of lore love and some rules. I've never quite had an idea what they wanted "rustic" Tau to be like.

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boomwolf
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#42 » Jul 14 2017 04:21

Jacket wrote:GW likes to keep its content fairly consistent. In AoS it's common to have 4-6 of these "sept" style things in newer books. So if the marines get 8 I could see us getting 4-8. Probably 6 if a good bet.

Tau
Vior'la
Farsight Enclaves

Now I think Kel'shan sept has a good shot at getting rules since of all the septs it has a lot of lore and very distinct personalty. They are high tech and hate xenos although it goes deeper than that.

I think we'll see a sept represented from each sphere of expansion (barring the 4th).

Kel'shan +1 morale vs xenos races. Every Kel'shan suit gains an additional slot to purchase another piece of wargear/vehicle gear/signature system but it can't be a weapon.

One of the Khradron Overlords in AoS allows them to take a unique relic for their port and I think another allows for you to take one additional relic type thing per detachment if I'm not mistaken. So I could even see them letting Kel'shan take an additional relic or perhaps one of the other engineering focused septs gets that one.



As I noted before, FW has units with Dal'yth (R'myer) and Ke'lshen (Ralai), so they may not be codex based, but they defiantly will exist.

I really hope kel'shan, or anyone else really, is NOT +1 vs xenos. its silly ability, niech in use (oh, your opponent is marines? no tactics for you!)

Jacket
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#43 » Jul 14 2017 04:42

What if they are +1 toughness then? They have been under siege for a long time, but now that seems very strong. Also Kel'shan has been a Sept before Forgeworld used it I think. The lexcanum says the first lore of it was not a FW book.

TheAnarchitect
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#44 » Jul 14 2017 05:30

What do you think the chances are that there will be a generic chapter tactics table? Kinda like warlord traits. Something like "if you are a homebrew chapter, choose 1 of these 6 chapter tactics." Or, for us, septs?

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boomwolf
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#45 » Jul 14 2017 05:38

Jacket wrote:What if they are +1 toughness then? They have been under siege for a long time, but now that seems very strong. Also Kel'shan has been a Sept before Forgeworld used it I think. The lexcanum says the first lore of it was not a FW book.



I don't see ANYONE getting a toughness increase as his tactics.

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#46 » Jul 14 2017 07:47

boomwolf wrote:
Jacket wrote:What if they are +1 toughness then? They have been under siege for a long time, but now that seems very strong. Also Kel'shan has been a Sept before Forgeworld used it I think. The lexcanum says the first lore of it was not a FW book.



I don't see ANYONE getting a toughness increase as his tactics.



agreed, too OP

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Arka0415
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#47 » Jul 15 2017 12:01

boomwolf wrote:
Jacket wrote:What if they are +1 toughness then? They have been under siege for a long time, but now that seems very strong. Also Kel'shan has been a Sept before Forgeworld used it I think. The lexcanum says the first lore of it was not a FW book.



I don't see ANYONE getting a toughness increase as his tactics.


With the exception of LD and maybe WS I doubt we'll see statline increases. Rather, think about perks that units might get. I also doubt the Tau septs will be as different as the Space Marine chapters are- Space Marines have highly varied tactics and combat styles.

knute
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#48 » Jul 15 2017 04:43

What about Sa'cea? I think they've been featured in all the codices. Since they're the city fighters I could see them getting something like ignore the +1 armor bonus due to cover.

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Panzer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#49 » Jul 15 2017 06:03

knute wrote:What about Sa'cea? I think they've been featured in all the codices. Since they're the city fighters I could see them getting something like ignore the +1 armor bonus due to cover.

I doubt that. That would invalidate one of the bonus on the Markerlight table which would be terrible game design. But yeah I hope Sa'Cea gets something as well. They are together with Vior'la one of the Septs who provide the most Firewarrior after all.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#50 » Jul 15 2017 06:32

It kinda sux though they'll probably wanna push us to stick to one sept for the whole army. Right now I can see ie hammerheads with longstrike being from T'au and the rest from other septs without any issues, but if they see tau players using more than one sept, they might restrict more abilities or even markerlights... (They FAQ'd saviour protocol and drone controlled recently to not work cross sept.)

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Arka0415
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#51 » Jul 15 2017 07:28

Panzer wrote:
knute wrote:What about Sa'cea? I think they've been featured in all the codices. Since they're the city fighters I could see them getting something like ignore the +1 armor bonus due to cover.

I doubt that. That would invalidate one of the bonus on the Markerlight table which would be terrible game design. But yeah I hope Sa'Cea gets something as well. They are together with Vior'la one of the Septs who provide the most Firewarrior after all.


Terrible game design? Never underestimate GW when it comes to Markerlights :P

Jacket
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#52 » Jul 15 2017 08:49

Well they don't have any variety because nothing has been written about them to make them unusual. While I don't think every sept in the empire should get bonuses, I do think that a few should to truly show that these are the most exceptional of their kind in different ways and they have started to specialise in some forms of combat. I also want to see maybe a blurb on why each of these septs is so special and a little more lore than we have now in them. In the overlords book for AoS there are two pages with major port details and a single nice wide picture per major port and a good long paragraph. They also then drop some additional info around the book about them.

I don't think this would be the Tau being so radically different as it would be they are much more specialised. In real life most military have all the same types of units, but some armies are known for being very specialised in some types of fighting. For example an American is going to be hard pressed to defeat a Canadian soldier in winter. Now it could happen, but there is an edge to Canada in that situation.

That's all. Also when they write about the major ports sometimes it wasn't necessarily what made them great at combat, but great at running from combat. I know one faction allows their transports to have reduced moment penalties for overloaded transports (AoS) rule and other speed bonuses.

The Beastclaw Raiders book specialisations play more with unique aspects of the raiders themselves than the generic stat lines for the most part.

So perhaps one sept could get a bonus to it's fall back rules for example? Who knows until we see the dex. I have high expectations if it's anything like the Khradron Overlords book though. Easily one of the best codices/battletombs ever made by GW in my opinion.

knute
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#53 » Jul 15 2017 09:35

Panzer wrote:
knute wrote:What about Sa'cea? I think they've been featured in all the codices. Since they're the city fighters I could see them getting something like ignore the +1 armor bonus due to cover.

I doubt that. That would invalidate one of the bonus on the Markerlight table which would be terrible game design. But yeah I hope Sa'Cea gets something as well. They are together with Vior'la one of the Septs who provide the most Firewarrior after all.


You mean like with Target Lock and Multi-Tracker and the Stormsurge? We already have a lot of marker light redundancy. One more wouldn't hurt.

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Panzer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#54 » Jul 15 2017 12:10

knute wrote:
Panzer wrote:
knute wrote:What about Sa'cea? I think they've been featured in all the codices. Since they're the city fighters I could see them getting something like ignore the +1 armor bonus due to cover.

I doubt that. That would invalidate one of the bonus on the Markerlight table which would be terrible game design. But yeah I hope Sa'Cea gets something as well. They are together with Vior'la one of the Septs who provide the most Firewarrior after all.


You mean like with Target Lock and Multi-Tracker and the Stormsurge? We already have a lot of marker light redundancy. One more wouldn't hurt.

That's not the same. Target Lock and Multi-Tracker are things you have a choice with whether you take them or not. You can one game leave them out and rely on Markerlights and another game take them and be less dependent on Markerlights. A Sept is not something you switch between games all the time. That'd be like playing Ultramarines in one game, the next game Space Wolves and the next game Dark Angels. All with the same models.
You're comparing apples to oranges.

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