Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#19 » Jul 14 2017 09:11

Interesting...

Though we probably can't expect something like +1BS from a sept bonus, what the SM have is still somewhat powerful. Trying guessing what would be the power equivalent of that for tau... Hard to judge as the SM bonus isn't rly something that is equally good against every army, but it covers one disadvantage very well. Something like a free sept wide target lock would maybe fit the scale of power (against certain armies), but that doesn't rly fit the purpose of an army wide bonus... Maybe overwatch on 5+, or morale boost?

Also I rly think the jet pack keyword will be used somehow, either JSJ(??? using command points as some1 suggested earlier) or possibly boosted movement or something... A sept bonus boosting jet pack movement phase distance? A redeployment during battle? IDK...

As for playing against them, it won't be any different than any other fly heavy army(except velocity tracker doesn't work), you just can't lock their shooters in combat, poor coldstar, but otherwise not a big deal.

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MNGamer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#20 » Jul 14 2017 09:21

The tau tactic could be: all "SEPT" units with the fly keword may make an additional movement in the assault phase. That would be super nice for mobility.
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#21 » Jul 14 2017 09:24

MNGamer wrote:The tau tactic could be: all "SEPT" units with the fly keword may make an additional movement in the assault phase. That would be super nice for mobility.


This would be too powerful. Maybe once per game would be ok-ish... Also note that our suits have "jet pack" keyword and "fly" keyword, while drones only have fly.

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Yojimbob
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#22 » Jul 14 2017 09:26

Gragagrogog wrote:Maybe overwatch on 5+, or morale boost?


We have had a massive bump to morale already and doubt we'll see anything different. Our overwatch is already fairly ridiculous when it comes to fending off other armies. I very seriously doubt we will get such a big buff. My problem currently is not with melee armies as they can be kited and moved around, it's actually defeating other shooty armies! AM is annoying as is AdMech. Even shooty versions of SM armies with Bobby G giving his absolutely ridiculous buff to squads of cheap transports with heavy weapons are causing me a lot of headaches. Something where we can reliably shoot better or do more damage to vehicles other than commander spam would be great.

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boomwolf
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#23 » Jul 14 2017 09:36

Well, looking at it rationally, we are going to have at least 3 "chapter tactics"

T'au Spet. (Pope, shadowsun, longstrike and darkstrider)
Vior'la Sept. (Aun'shi)
Farsight Enclaves (The man)


Forgeworld also has Dal'yth (R'myer) and Ke'lshen (Ralai), but it is unknown if they will be in codex or in forgeworld only.


So, giving any one of them "jetpack movement" seems a bit off, isn't it?
Why one can and others can't?

FSE will probably get something melee-involved, but I'm honestly clueless about the rest.


The fact we've only seen 1 equivilant so far (ultras) makes it hard to think what is and isn't an option.

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#24 » Jul 14 2017 09:41

Well... each sept will probably have it's own tactic so lets look at the ones we currently have in the index and speculate about others they may add

GW:
Farsight Enclaves- combat buff
T'au Sept- shooting buff
Vior'la Sept- Movement/Toughness buff (MNgamer)

FW:
Dal'yth- ???
Ke'lshan- ???
Last edited by Glarblar on Jul 14 2017 09:46, edited 1 time in total.

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MNGamer
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#25 » Jul 14 2017 09:43

Glarblar wrote:Well... each sept will probably have it's own tactic so lets look at the ones we currently have in the index and speculate about others they may add

GW:
Farsight Enclaves- combat buff
T'au Sept- shooting buff
Vior'la Sept- ???

FW:
Dal'yth- ???
Ke'lshan- ???


Vior'la could be either a movement or toughness buff
Even when broken, a sword may still cut~Aun'ko'vash

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#26 » Jul 14 2017 09:44

boomwolf wrote:So, giving any one of them "jetpack movement" seems a bit off, isn't it?
Why one can and others can't?


I was thinking about something like rerolls of charge distance for farsight enclaves or +2" in movement phase for another sept, it will probably still have other uses with unique stratagems and whatnot.

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#27 » Jul 14 2017 09:47

Gragagrogog wrote:
boomwolf wrote:So, giving any one of them "jetpack movement" seems a bit off, isn't it?
Why one can and others can't?


I was thinking about something like rerolls of charge distance for farsight enclaves or +2" in movement phase for another sept, it will probably still have other uses with unique stratagems and whatnot.


Good suggestions, but do you think they are balanced? I suppose we are going to have to wait for another chapter tactics to come out in order to see the diversity

knute
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#28 » Jul 14 2017 09:50

A friend of mine pointed out the other day that GW took away assault-phase moves from everyone who had them on the basis that it slowed the game down. To that end, I'm unsure if GW will give us assault phase moves in the codex, but I think another suggestion should be submitted to GW along the lines of "yes, our faction is currently overpriced, but probably wouldn't be if you gave us back our signature JSJ on Jetpack models."

That being said, I don't think it would be a Sept-specific ability, because then everyone would just run that Sept. Rather, it would probably just be for things that are Keyworded <Sept> so it works for all our Tau peeps

A return of JSJ and a fix to markerlights would instantly balance our army. Otherwise, we need at least a 10 to 15% decrease in points for our vehicles and battlesuits.

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Gragagrogog
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#29 » Jul 14 2017 09:59

Ye, on 99% the JSJ won't return back in the same format, but something like one unit per turn and having to pay command points for it wouldn't slow the game too much and it would be rly nice way to spend the points, if you could avoid a charge for one more turn instead of rerolling a dice... hmmm....

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Glarblar
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#30 » Jul 14 2017 09:59

Imagine a Strategem: (3CP) Instantly seize the Initiative

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boomwolf
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#31 » Jul 14 2017 10:02

JSJ does not really fix vehicles, does it?

Anyways.
Seems like tactics, at least according to ultras, do not effect vehicles to begin with.


Anyways, we can expect the tactics to include mostly incomparables, as in things that are not a mathematical difference in power, but instead giving you a new ability, or changing how you behave in some way.

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Vector Strike
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#32 » Jul 14 2017 10:10

knute wrote:A return of JSJ and a fix to markerlights would instantly balance our army. Otherwise, we need at least a 10 to 15% decrease in points for our vehicles and battlesuits.


While I agree with you, I think this discussion should be in another thread ;)

If your friend is correct, then yeah, JSJ won't come back at all.

Ricordis
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#33 » Jul 14 2017 11:19

Riptide still has JSJ with Nova Reactor active...

I have to admit that Ultramarines Chapter Tactic is really good. Rulewise and fluffwise.
Now as we see in what direction GW is willing to go with Chapter/Sept/Craftworld/... tactics I am less concerned the T'au codex will be utter rubbish.
It is one simple rule but it has a huge impact on playing Ultramarines without making it too strong, I think.

I am curious what the other factions get.

Sheeb
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#34 » Jul 14 2017 12:07

We won't know until we see the new T'au codex. Hold on to your butts.

Panzer & Lechai Skull are my favorite forum contributors, and you both have valid points. This happened every time a new codex is released. Power-creeeeep. We will get our cool ability hopefully in time. I have no idea what it could be. Maybe Commanders cost 0 points lol.

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QimRas
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#35 » Jul 14 2017 12:45

As a primarily infantry and vehicle based Tau player, JSJ is kinda meh for me. It would be an interesting tactical tool here and there, but it really would have very little effect on the vast majority of my army. They have one whole chapter wise bonus that effects all models (even if vehicles are unlikely to be effected by the leadership change) and one change that effects specific keywords.

Obviously we will have to wait to see if that trend continues, but it makes sense to have an overall benefit, and something that makes armies with specific keywords more useful.

*T'au characters seem to be fairly all over the place, so something widely encompassing but weak makes sense for the overall. Maybe a change or addition to the markerlight table. For their specific, I imagine it will be infantry focused.

*Farsight Enclaves is obviously suit heavy, so an overall bonus could be something a suit heavy army needs, like some easier way to get markerlights. For the specific, I imagine they will target the Battlesuit keyword.

*For the engineering focused sept (can't remember the name) I can easily see their specific being something drone centric. Honestly no idea for something general though.

Jacket
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Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Post#36 » Jul 14 2017 01:23

GW likes to keep its content fairly consistent. In AoS it's common to have 4-6 of these "sept" style things in newer books. So if the marines get 8 I could see us getting 4-8. Probably 6 if a good bet.

Tau
Vior'la
Farsight Enclaves

Now I think Kel'shan sept has a good shot at getting rules since of all the septs it has a lot of lore and very distinct personalty. They are high tech and hate xenos although it goes deeper than that.

I think we'll see a sept represented from each sphere of expansion (barring the 4th).

Kel'shan +1 morale vs xenos races. Every Kel'shan suit gains an additional slot to purchase another piece of wargear/vehicle gear/signature system but it can't be a weapon.

One of the Khradron Overlords in AoS allows them to take a unique relic for their port and I think another allows for you to take one additional relic type thing per detachment if I'm not mistaken. So I could even see them letting Kel'shan take an additional relic or perhaps one of the other engineering focused septs gets that one.

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