Page 5 of 8

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 16 2017 08:04
by Glarblar
Lofl... Way to make gameplay more simple GW

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 16 2017 10:50
by Panzer
Glarblar wrote:Lofl... Way to make gameplay more simple GW

Those changes didn't make gameplay any more or less complicated though. The actual gameplay is still the same.

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 08:51
by Glarblar
Panzer wrote:
Glarblar wrote:Lofl... Way to make gameplay more simple GW

Those changes didn't make gameplay any more or less complicated though. The actual gameplay is still the same.


You are right that gameplay is exactly the same,

I was thinking if you had multiple characters (Shadowsun and Aun'shi for instance) you have a lot more bookkeeping to do to determine which drones can give saves to each of them, or which units can benefit from their abilities etc.

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 09:06
by QimRas
Glarblar wrote:
Panzer wrote:
Glarblar wrote:Lofl... Way to make gameplay more simple GW

Those changes didn't make gameplay any more or less complicated though. The actual gameplay is still the same.


You are right that gameplay is exactly the same,

I was thinking if you had multiple characters (Shadowsun and Aun'shi for instance) you have a lot more bookkeeping to do to determine which drones can give saves to each of them, or which units can benefit from their abilities etc.


Well, drones and units are supposed to be painted with Sept colors, so the book keeping is not that hard. The change from TAU EMPIRE to SEPT however is kinda dumb.

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:14
by Vector Strike
Raven Guard tactics:
Image

Ultras got Fly-lite, RG got Stealth Suit treatment. One solution in mind...

Image

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:17
by Panzer
Haha I was about to post it this second here. :D

Oh boy how much we will hate playing against Ravenguard. Good think I always had a hot love for Flamers even before 8th anyway (i mean, my first army was Blood Angels, go figure :P ).

Anyway Fly doesn't give -1 to-hit. Airbourne does. ;)
I guess if we know we have to play against Ravenguard equipping each unit with at least one Velocity Tracker will be a good idea. Talk about list tailoring.

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:18
by Arka0415
Vector Strike wrote:Raven Guard tactics:
Image

If you though Guilliman and Flyers were bad, imagine having to hit RG flyers at BS6+...


That's astonishingly good. Though, wasn't there something about Tactics only affecting infantry, Dreadnoughts, and bikers?

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:18
by Oxydo
Spoiler!
Vector Strike wrote:Raven Guard tactics:
Image

If you though Guilliman and Flyers were bad, imagine having to hit RG flyers at BS6+...

Image


All chapter tactics only affect infantry, bikes, and dreadnaughts.

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:20
by Vector Strike
Yeah, forgot about that.

Anyway, -1 to hit scouts with 2+ armour save in cover (camo cloaks)... brrr
gunline RG... never thought this day would happen

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:21
by Glarblar
I can't wait for the other Tactics to show up. Everything seems to be pretty in line with rules we already have:

UM: modified Fly, plus LD modifier
Ravenguard: Ghostkeel's Electro Warfare

We can probably look to the other armies to figure out what Tau may get:

Vior'la, T'au, and Farsight

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:26
by Glarblar
So if 'Chapter Tactics' only affect Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnaughts, Do you think 'Sept Characteristics' will only affect Infantry, Battlesuits, and Drones?

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:57
by Vector Strike
Glarblar wrote:So if 'Chapter Tactics' only affect Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnaughts, Do you think 'Sept Characteristics' will only affect Infantry, Battlesuits, and Drones?


It's quite the possibility!

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 10:58
by Panzer
Vector Strike wrote:Yeah, forgot about that.

Anyway, -1 to hit scouts with 2+ armour save in cover (camo cloaks)... brrr
gunline RG... never thought this day would happen

Not just gunline. Their warlord trait prevents overwatch, Shrike and the relic allow re-roll to charge distance and they get a stratagem that allows them to put regular units in reserves (and deploy them >9" away).
They can do both well, melee and shooting. They are a codex compliant chapter after all.

Honestly it sounds like a very fun to play chapter with a potentially broken Chapter Tactic. Time to get close and personal with our Suits. More flamer, Plasma and CIB ftw. :D

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 12:51
by relasine
Vector Strike wrote:
Glarblar wrote:So if 'Chapter Tactics' only affect Infantry, Bikes, and Dreadnaughts, Do you think 'Sept Characteristics' will only affect Infantry, Battlesuits, and Drones?


It's quite the possibility!

Image

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 17 2017 12:56
by boomwolf
Well, this confirms that chapter tactics are going to be freaking powerful.

People without won't be able to stand well against people with until codices drop. marines are going to have a serious edge for a while (the first four are codex marines, death guard, gray knights and CSM-not sure about order though, and TS are in the second batch somewhere)


The RG stratagem of "deepstrike anything" is also going to be quite a threat.

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 18 2017 09:19
by Lechai Skull
WoW,

GW just gave an entire chapter stealth,
How do they justify it? We have specifically designed stealth suits that can turn the user nearly invisible.
RavenGuard, because of reasons...
Pretty sure they don't have fluff to equal a stealthsuit?

I also thought they were trying to release a balanced game where +/- modifiers were rare.
Whelp, that didn't last long.

Prepare for the inevitable ridiculous power creep and broken formation style rules of 7E all over again.

I'm calling it now, when our codex launches we will get something epicly lame like:

    "Rapid fire weapons can also advance and fire at -1 to hit like assault weapons"
    "Kroot can be taken as a sinle Auxillary without the -1 CP peanlty"
    "Crisis suits can move 9" instead of 8"."

You know... for balance

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 18 2017 09:26
by Panzer
Lechai Skull wrote:WoW,

GW just gave an entire chapter stealth,
How do they justify it? We have specifically designed stealth suits that can turn the user nearly invisible.
RavenGuard, because of reasons...

I also thought they were trying to release a balanced game where +/- modifiers were rare.
Whelp, that didn't last long.

Prepare for the inevitable ridiculous power creep and broken formation style rules of 7E all over again.

I'm calling it now, when our codex launches we will get something epicly lame like:

    "Rapid fire weapons can also advance and fire at -1 to hit like assault weapons"
    "Kroot can be taken as a sinle Auxillary without the -1 CP peanlty"
    "Crisis suits can move 9" instead of 8"."

You know... for balance

Now now, it's "only" the Ghostkeel stealth. If we get within 12" they won't have anything anymore. ;)
Also Ravenguard as well have technology to mask themselves. Not as good as Stealth Suits but it should be comparable to giant Ghostkeels trying to hide in plain sight without their Drones helping I guess.

Whether it's balanced or not is yet to see. It's the first real Codex that gets released in 8th and even if it's unbalanced after everyone got their Codex they could just raise points for Raven Guard later on.

The sky is not falling just yet, man. :D

Re: Ultramarines Chapter Tactics spotted!

Posted: Jul 18 2017 09:36
by Lechai Skull
Panzer wrote:
Now now, it's "only" the Ghostkeel stealth. If we get within 12" they won't have anything anymore. ;)
Also Ravenguard as well have technology to mask themselves. Not as good as Stealth Suits but it should be comparable to giant Ghostkeels trying to hide in plain sight without their Drones helping I guess.

Whether it's balanced or not is yet to see. It's the first real Codex that gets released in 8th and even if it's unbalanced after everyone got their Codex they could just raise points for Raven Guard later on.

The sky is not falling just yet, man. :D


Well they cant just bump up the points cost of RG because SM units are generic in nature.
TBH i wouldn't be terribly upset if the range was upped a little.

-1 to hit from outside 18" is a lot more reasonable for an army wide buff.

If i could take that for my <SEPT> i'd take it in a heartbeat. But then you'd have some nasty stealth abuse spam.

If they are taking army specific abilities and giving them to other factions, then how about some BS3+ love or quantum shielding. Yes please.