Dealing with Deathguard

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
fraction64
Shas'Saal
Posts: 195

Dealing with Deathguard

Post#1 » Sep 20 2017 01:13

So has anyone played against this chaos army yet?
They seem very resilient to shooting and their stratagems and psychic powers seem to screw with our shooting.
Having to fire everything at t5 zombies with a -1 to hit while marines advance behind them seems tough.
Also that Mortarion looks like he takes a lot to take down.
Would love to hear some firsthand accounts.

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
Shas'La
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#2 » Sep 20 2017 03:02

They are really weak actually. One of the regulars to my gaming group plays Death Guard, and he's a really good player. Problem is, his army sucks. Now I have nothing against Death Guard. They are a really interesting faction of chaos, being worshipers of the literal source of imperial guardsmen's herpes (just joking!!). But they suffer a LOT under our guns. The plague zombies crumple under even a 8 man strike team with sufficient drone support and their infantry weapons are terrible (being the 'dreaded' bolter- may that puny weapon always fail to wound!!!). However, they do have some notably good stuff. They have a rule (forgotten it's name) which allows you to reduce one of your enemy unit's hit rolls by 1, and their Mindless rule for zombies allows their weakest troop choice to not suffer as much as they could :(. As well as this, their hellbrute and Foetid Blight Drone heavy weapons (specifically the melta and heavy blight launcher) are NASTY!!! But no, overall they don't resit our shooting, their psychic powers are good, but don't really matter in the big scheme of things (unless your opponent is running heavy psychic, in which case: prepare to suffer for the Tau'va), and the marines (while still a threat) are realtively puny with shooting and melt like butter under our S5 weapons.

Tl;dr: They're not that much of a threat if you're running a good list and have a bit of skill.
Igne vir renovatur integra

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#3 » Sep 20 2017 05:15

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:They are really weak actually. One of the regulars to my gaming group plays Death Guard, and he's a really good player. Problem is, his army sucks. Now I have nothing against Death Guard. They are a really interesting faction of chaos, being worshipers of the literal source of imperial guardsmen's herpes (just joking!!). But they suffer a LOT under our guns. The plague zombies crumple under even a 8 man strike team with sufficient drone support and their infantry weapons are terrible (being the 'dreaded' bolter- may that puny weapon always fail to wound!!!). However, they do have some notably good stuff. They have a rule (forgotten it's name) which allows you to reduce one of your enemy unit's hit rolls by 1, and their Mindless rule for zombies allows their weakest troop choice to not suffer as much as they could :(. As well as this, their hellbrute and Foetid Blight Drone heavy weapons (specifically the melta and heavy blight launcher) are NASTY!!! But no, overall they don't resit our shooting, their psychic powers are good, but don't really matter in the big scheme of things (unless your opponent is running heavy psychic, in which case: prepare to suffer for the Tau'va), and the marines (while still a threat) are realtively puny with shooting and melt like butter under our S5 weapons.

Tl;dr: They're not that much of a threat if you're running a good list and have a bit of skill.


It may be the case that the regular's normal army didn't make the transition to the Codex very well. At least on paper, Death Guard are looking very strong especially in Mortal Wound-spam lists. If he runs a Plague Zombies (Plaguewalkers?
Poxwalkers?) army, it could be that it's just not good in 8th Edition anymore. But trust me, there will be very competitive lists coming out of that book very soon.

fraction64
Shas'Saal
Posts: 195

Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#4 » Sep 20 2017 03:33

Does he run Typhus and a psyker to buff the zombies to t5? Does he run multiple 20 man squads of them?
Does he use the stratagem to make the plague marines immune to shooting for a turn? Did he use any stratagems?
What does he equip the plague marines with? They can have plasma guns, plague launchers, and can even go heavy melee.
Have you faced Mortarion? He looks beastly.
Oh and did he try out any of their characters like the plague doctor guy who re-rolls FNP rolls of one? That would make them much more durable.
I saw the index version of the zombies absorb an entire army's worth of shooting so I am surprised to hear you say that an 8 man strike team wiped them out.

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Vio'ra Mal'caor
Shas'La
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#5 » Sep 20 2017 05:11

fraction64 wrote:Does he run Typhus and a psyker to buff the zombies to t5? Does he run multiple 20 man squads of them?
Does he use the stratagem to make the plague marines immune to shooting for a turn? Did he use any stratagems?
What does he equip the plague marines with? They can have plasma guns, plague launchers, and can even go heavy melee.
Have you faced Mortarion? He looks beastly.
Oh and did he try out any of their characters like the plague doctor guy who re-rolls FNP rolls of one? That would make them much more durable.
I saw the index version of the zombies absorb an entire army's worth of shooting so I am surprised to hear you say that an 8 man strike team wiped them out.


It was actually quite easy. I did have a bit of support though from both a Cadre Fireblade and a pathfinder team. They're not really that much of a bullet sponge (or rather pulse sponge in our case :) ), and I have no idea how a single squad survived a enitre army worth of fire. Th 'disgustingly resilient' rule (basically feel no pain) is a bit of a nuisance, but for one they have 7+ saves (which I found amusing due to GW's inability to write Save: N/A!!) and they also only have one wound. I found less than a quarter of my fire failed to hit due to their FNP save.
Igne vir renovatur integra

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#6 » Sep 20 2017 06:48

fraction64 wrote:I saw the index version of the zombies absorb an entire army's worth of shooting so I am surprised to hear you say that an 8 man strike team wiped them out.

It just has to be that the zombie army wasn't all that good. I've seen Death Guard armies take an absurd amount of fire and keep on walking- resilience, and mortal wounds, that's their thing.

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:they have 7+ saves (which I found amusing due to GW's inability to write Save: N/A!!)

The 7+ save is a funny little thing. It means that, normally, the zombies don't have saves. However, their saves can be buffed to 6+ or 5+ or whatever as long as you have the proper buffing abilities. A save of "N/a" (or "-" as GW puts it) can't be improved- this is the difference between "zero" and "null".

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Panzer
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Posts: 3548

Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#7 » Sep 20 2017 11:20

Vio'ra Mal'caor wrote:
fraction64 wrote:Does he run Typhus and a psyker to buff the zombies to t5? Does he run multiple 20 man squads of them?
Does he use the stratagem to make the plague marines immune to shooting for a turn? Did he use any stratagems?
What does he equip the plague marines with? They can have plasma guns, plague launchers, and can even go heavy melee.
Have you faced Mortarion? He looks beastly.
Oh and did he try out any of their characters like the plague doctor guy who re-rolls FNP rolls of one? That would make them much more durable.
I saw the index version of the zombies absorb an entire army's worth of shooting so I am surprised to hear you say that an 8 man strike team wiped them out.


It was actually quite easy. I did have a bit of support though from both a Cadre Fireblade and a pathfinder team. They're not really that much of a bullet sponge (or rather pulse sponge in our case :) ), and I have no idea how a single squad survived a enitre army worth of fire. Th 'disgustingly resilient' rule (basically feel no pain) is a bit of a nuisance, but for one they have 7+ saves (which I found amusing due to GW's inability to write Save: N/A!!) and they also only have one wound. I found less than a quarter of my fire failed to hit due to their FNP save.

7+ is NOT the same thing as N/A!
N/A or " - " couldn't be modified into a doable save by Cover or other mechanics. A 7+ can.

Also it appears you just have been lucky or your opponent extremely unlucky. Normaly you'd need 45 Pulse shots to kill a unit of 10 Poxwalker on average and that's without any buffs or debuffs from any side.

Wedrujacy
Shas'Saal
Posts: 63

Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#8 » Sep 21 2017 12:43

I have been deailing with DG during my tests and there was around 2x dark imperium + hellbrute + hero (some outside the box).
To be honest our shooting was fine but it was hard fight as he has done incredible amount of dmg (mortals) during his psychic phase by his heroes. And all of that with easy spells that pass on 7+ for 2d6 O_o

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leo1925
Shas
Posts: 83

Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#9 » Sep 21 2017 06:36

Wedrujacy wrote: And all of that with easy spells that pass on 7+ for 2d6 O_o


I wouldn't call getting a 7+ on 2d6 easy, especially since, in my last game, i managed to lose 6 consecutive 6+ psychic powers.

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#10 » Sep 21 2017 06:49

Panzer wrote:Also it appears you just have been lucky or your opponent extremely unlucky. Normaly you'd need 45 Pulse shots to kill a unit of 10 Poxwalker on average and that's without any buffs or debuffs from any side.

Oh, don't do the math about Pulse Rifles! It's always so depressing. Not that any other army has better anti-infantry guns for 8pts, but still it's amazing how much Pulse firepower you need to accomplish anything.

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Panzer
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#11 » Sep 21 2017 08:20

Arka0415 wrote:
Panzer wrote:Also it appears you just have been lucky or your opponent extremely unlucky. Normaly you'd need 45 Pulse shots to kill a unit of 10 Poxwalker on average and that's without any buffs or debuffs from any side.

Oh, don't do the math about Pulse Rifles! It's always so depressing. Not that any other army has better anti-infantry guns for 8pts, but still it's amazing how much Pulse firepower you need to accomplish anything.

Well it's just the most basic of our guns and to be fair we can get those 45 shots quite easily. It's just 2x12 Firewarrior in Rapid fire range. Or if we take Gun Drones then we'd need 67.5 shots without buffs but that's only ~17 Gun Drones even. :P

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Arka0415
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#12 » Sep 21 2017 08:35

Panzer wrote:Well it's just the most basic of our guns and to be fair we can get those 45 shots quite easily. It's just 2x12 Firewarrior in Rapid fire range. Or if we take Gun Drones then we'd need 67.5 shots without buffs but that's only ~17 Gun Drones even. :P

I guess I'm still annoyed by the overall Pulse nerf in 8th Edition. The new wounding table plus lack of an AP value makes it that much tougher to kill T3 targets, and especially ones with 5+ armor save. 8th Edition T3/5+ is the same to us as 7th Edition T4/5++. Poxwalkers are a little different of course having 5+ FNP but you get the idea.

Anyway though, thanks for being the optimistic one here! I still love my Fire Warriors, don't worry. :D

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Panzer
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#13 » Sep 21 2017 08:39

Yeah but I think that was a good change. Infantry was getting killed waaaay too fast in 7th. Now infantry is actually worth taking apart from the inital burst again.

fraction64
Shas'Saal
Posts: 195

Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#14 » Sep 24 2017 01:34

So do we actually have tactics for fighting DG?
On one side we have someone who just shot them off the board in seconds and on the other we have the theory at least that they are actually very resilient to shooting.
Having watched a few bat reps with them in it now I would lean towards the latter. I think the former just got extremely lucky and that is hard to pull off consistently.
Will say Mortarion seems to go down early in just about every game I've watched. Turn 2 at the latest.

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Panzer
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Re: Dealing with Deathguard

Post#15 » Sep 24 2017 02:01

Pretty hard to formulate a proper tactic against an army that's basically completely new. It'll take months before most people here actually played a few times against Death Guard and know what works and what not.

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