Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Discuss both Auxiliary, Allied and Aliens tactics
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Orion7
Shas'Saal
Posts: 97

Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#1 » Dec 01 2017 06:04

So my friend had recently found his old 1.3k AM army.

And I got totally roflstomped. He had every unit protected by -1 to hit, and was able to re roll ones on almost all units.
Coupled with him going first, I'm not entirely sure how I was supposed to fight him...

All my markerlights were being used to just make them hittable (because tau ballistic skill is not exactly great), and their superior range on everything was cutting me down before I could even reach them for rapid fire etc.

How should I counter this?


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3276

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#2 » Dec 01 2017 08:20

Sounds like a tough opponent! AM armies really do seem to outshoot us. Could you post your list? That would probably be a good place to start!

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 576

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#3 » Dec 01 2017 08:29

What list did you take? What did your opponent take? What was the mission? Ad Mech or AM? What were some tactics you used? Going to need some more information.

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Orion7
Shas'Saal
Posts: 97

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#4 » Dec 01 2017 12:23

Okay, so it was infantry heavy, designed to put out markerlights at a high rate.

Back field
Two etherial providing FnP
Cadre fireblade for starting the chain
Six squads of five fire warriors with rifles
A marksman on a roof
A broadside with rail rifle and SMS+drones
Sensor tower

Front field
Shadowsun and 3 stealth suits with full compliment of shield drones deployed forwards to drop a homing beacon for...
6x XV8s with six fusion blasters, five flamers, one sad reject with only burst cannons, and one Tough Cookie with shield generator and stimulant injector and 12 shield drones


He had:
Two dune crawlers, six cataphractoi (spelling) maybe twenty troops with radium rifles, two tech priests of some kind and a bank of transonic rifles.

My opponent wiped out my whole stealth team except shadowsun on the first turn, meaning I couldn't deploy flamers on the crisis. A whole turn on my end killed only one cataphractoi and two troops (one of whom killed himself by getting hot). XV8s wiped on turn two, game conceded on turn three after I lost half my fire warriors, fireblade and my broadside

My losses: 100% front field
75% back field

His losses:
One accidental death, four troops and six cataphractoi. A small dent in one dune crawler.

Certainly the dice gods were not on my side with the vast majority of my rolls being poor (except for the etherial FnP which over half succeeded on a six)


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 576

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#5 » Dec 01 2017 01:47

So I'm guessing the points were 1500ish, breakdown as follows.

2x Ethereal - 90
Cadre fireblade - 42
6x 5man strike teams - 240
Firesight marksman - 24
A broadside with rail rifle and SMS+drones (missile?) - 223
Sensor tower - 33

Front field
Shadowsun - 167
3 stealth suits w/ beacon and 2x shield drones - 126
6x XV8s with six fusion blasters, five flamers, one sad reject with only burst cannons, and one Tough Cookie with shield generator and stimulant injector and 12 shield drones - 562

Don't take this the wrong way but you should read through some of the other army building threads if you want to beat your opponents. Taking so many points inefficient things with our index will not serve you well. I'll try to point out some improvements.

Shadowsun is menh for her points. Spend LESS points and get a tougher chassis with more wounds and double the shots from a quad fusion commander. Easy fix there.

You have 2 Ethereals giving FNP to save a handful of units. I'd say stick with one, if any, and put it near stuff that matters. Most of the time you're saving things that don't really matter and spending a LOT of points on it. Not to mention you have MSU firewarriors so you certainly don't need the ethereal giving out leadership buffs since it likely won't matter.

Fireblade is fine with strike teams but not taking ANY gun drones is really a mistake. He should definitely only be taken if gun drones are present in my opinion. Save more points there.

Firesight is fine if only to be a hidden markerlight to get our new stratagem going or to pile on the extra hits if needed. Prior to the release of CA I would have said axe him but now I'm not as sure.

Poor poor broadside. Seems ok but really just doesn't put out enough punch to make it worthwhile for 223 points. Much, MUCH rather have a CIB commander with a pair of drones for 154.

Sensor tower is an even worse version of the tetra and tetras are pretty bad for putting out markerlights. Switch to hidden lights in the strike teams or go all in with loads of pathfinders. Sadly, markerdrones just don't cut it like they used to.

Stealthsuits are good, keep them but don't deploy them until VERY late or last. Make sure they are within about 20" of the QFC or flamer suit intended target. 8" move, d6" advance, 1" drop the beacon, 8 or 9" threat range on the guns. Definitely don't need to be hyper aggressive with your deploy on these.

Lastly, you've spent over a third of your points on split damage type and range weapons just so you could gimmick a short range deepstrike AND it bit you because of a bad deploy. If you've spent THAT many points on a "deathstar" and you need things to go right, make sure you are redundant and take multiple stealth suit squads with beacons. I do not condone doing this but it's your game, you play it how you want. HIGHLY recommend not taking that many crisis in a blob especially with different weapons. Take 3 as all flamers and drop them in but also take 3 and go full missile pods or full CIB (my recommendation) and have two separate deadly squads.

I recommend also taking pathfinders. With hidden weapons and the fact that we don't need a ton of lights to hit 5 anymore, I think they do a great job.

Ideally your final list will have 10-15% of points in buffing units and definitely no more than that.

You need some alpha strike or ability to get to big units and make them fall over. QFC or multiple QFC's will definitely put the fear of god into your opponent.

CIB's are one of the best guns in our index, I suggest finding ways to utilize them. Overcharge on anything that's not t3 or t5 and anything that has multiple wounds. Rinse repeat until it falls over.

Gun drones. Lots of gun drones. Shield drones in the mix are great too to keep people from targeting the drones without any real chance of saving. Going strictly shield drones leaves a little on the table along with your buffing units that have zero bite. I personally don't like this method but if you have enough commanders, this may actually be a very strong strategy since they will more than make up for not having gun drones firing.

Sorry, long winded post but you are using some weaker stuff and expecting anything will beat your opponent when simply it just isn't the case. Codex > index.

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Orion7
Shas'Saal
Posts: 97

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#6 » Dec 01 2017 02:46

No no don't apologise that's really helpful. I'm totally new to the game and am still learning what works. I'm more than happy to take as much advice as I can get from veterans, especially when I've done something dumb!

That's all good stuff to know (I'm guessing that MSU means multiple and small units?)

I've got shadowsun because of a cadre I'm building but am waiting for more stealth suits and a ghost keel the post from a *very* slow supplier, so she's kind of shoehorned in for her drones.

CIBs- I'd love to have these but I can't find any that I can afford as the 3d printed ones are a touch much for such a small item. I'll definitely split my XV8s next time though.

I keep seeing the commander popping up, what should it be run with for best effect? I'm tempted to try the coldstar+TL+DC with remora drones because it looks *fun* but I have no idea how good it'll actually be

If you dislike the sensor tower (currently used because it's pretty and gives my fireblade reroll ones) you'll hate the fact that I had a drone turret in there... I bought it after misreading the rules on greater good, I didn't notice the 6" stipulation :'(


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Yojimbob
Shas'Saal
Posts: 576

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#7 » Dec 01 2017 03:10

Yes, getting stand ins for CIB's are definitely a problem for most Tau players. there are some great ideas out there for conversions. Personally, I'd find a way to modify burst cannons as they haven't been useful, ever.

Commanders have three flavors of being useful. Coldstar with ATS and people go between TL and SG is fast and annoying. Can tie up units and snag last second objectives and puts out a little bit of fire power. QFC is the quad fusion end all be all to annihilating tanks and other big uglies on the table. CIB commanders are the flexible skirmish unit and I have come to REALLY love them. With easier access to 5+ ML with our new stratagem that comes out this weekend with Chapter Approved, the CIB commander MIGHT start seeing some bench time in favor of 3 crisis loaded up the same way. Need to do some math on it to see if the extra wounds and larger footprint and larger squad of drones would make it worth while.

I'm not personally one for fluff but I like the idea of that all stealth team. Go nuts with it! Hopefully Shadowsun sees a little love when our codex comes around.

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Orion7
Shas'Saal
Posts: 97

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#8 » Dec 01 2017 03:20

Yojimbob wrote:Yes, getting stand ins for CIB's are definitely a problem for most Tau players. there are some great ideas out there for conversions. Personally, I'd find a way to modify burst cannons as they haven't been useful, ever.

Commanders have three flavors of being useful. Coldstar with ATS and people go between TL and SG is fast and annoying. Can tie up units and snag last second objectives and puts out a little bit of fire power. QFC is the quad fusion end all be all to annihilating tanks and other big uglies on the table. CIB commanders are the flexible skirmish unit and I have come to REALLY love them. With easier access to 5+ ML with our new stratagem that comes out this weekend with Chapter Approved, the CIB commander MIGHT start seeing some bench time in favor of 3 crisis loaded up the same way. Need to do some math on it to see if the extra wounds and larger footprint and larger squad of drones would make it worth while.

I'm not personally one for fluff but I like the idea of that all stealth team. Go nuts with it! Hopefully Shadowsun sees a little love when our codex comes around.


Here's the link to my stealth team build if you're interested
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=26828


Limitations? You mean you don't want Fido the kroot hound as a character?

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Arka0415
Shas'Vre
Shas'Vre
Posts: 3276

Re: Fighting adeptus mechanicus, help!

Post#9 » Dec 01 2017 07:50

Yojimbob's advice is spot-on. Absolutely no offense to you Orion, but your friend has a solid list and, as Yojimbob pointed out, your list has several areas that need work.

Since a lot needs to change, do you mind posting a list of the models in your collection, and which ones are magnetized?

By and large, you're going to want...

Commanders
Fireblades
Fire Warriors
Devilfish
XV8s
Stealthsuits
Gun Drones
Pathfinders

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